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96 or 44.1 Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 23rd August 2007
  #1
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96 or 44.1

I always record at 96kHz and 32bit float but lately I getting tired of freezing channels when the processor is maxing out. I know there is a difference in quality but my mixes are dithered down to 44.1 24 bit for mastering, then 44.1 16 bit for cd and gods know what when the ipoders get their hands on the finish article.

Is there a point???

Has anyone gone from 96 32 down to 44.1 24 and not looked back??
Old 23rd August 2007
  #2
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If you are going back down to 44.1K at the end, I would suggest either 88.2 or 44.1K. Since the 88.2 is a multiple of 44.1, there is less chance of artifacting occurring in the sample rate conversion. Dividing by 2 is much easier than dividing by 2.1768707, which becomes very messy. 88.2 should give you more (processing) headroom than 96.

I also doubt if your interface is capable of 32bit float in the A-D, so recording at 24 bit will be fine, and it will give you more (processing) headroom as well.
Old 24th August 2007
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrebes View Post
If you are going back down to 44.1K at the end, I would suggest either 88.2 or 44.1K. Since the 88.2 is a multiple of 44.1, there is less chance of artifacting occurring in the sample rate conversion. Dividing by 2 is much easier than dividing by 2.1768707, which becomes very messy. 88.2 should give you more headroom than 96.

I also doubt if your interface is capable of 32bit float in the A-D, so recording at 24 bit will be fine, and it will give you more headroom as well.
????????????

Are you sure about that???
Old 24th August 2007
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrebes View Post
If you are going back down to 44.1K at the end, I would suggest either 88.2 or 44.1K. Since the 88.2 is a multiple of 44.1, there is less chance of artifacting occurring in the sample rate conversion. Dividing by 2 is much easier than dividing by 2.1768707, which becomes very messy. 88.2 should give you more headroom than 96.

I also doubt if your interface is capable of 32bit float in the A-D, so recording at 24 bit will be fine, and it will give you more headroom as well.
Dithering is not really deviding by 2... Its a much more complicated process to truncate everything to a lower samplerate and bitdepth and add some noise.
Old 24th August 2007
  #5
I was just asking myself the same question - again -. I finished a 96k project and then went into a 44 k project. The 44k project sounds great too. I think I would prefer 44k-48k project for most popular music projects with high track counts. I am also trying to figure out why I liked this 44k project possibly compared to the 48k stuff?

But for acoustic or classical I think the higher sample rates are interesting and they happen to benefit from having lower track counts...

So my $.02:
44-48k for popular music
88-96k for for acoustic, maybe jazz, classical, highly ambient

Also, I only use 32-bit files if I am applying digital processing to an already recorded audio file.. (freezing, or internal bouncing).
Old 24th August 2007
  #6
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If you record at higher samplerates and bitdepths and dither down, usually the lower version would sound better.
The big advantage is that you start with the best source matrial available and degrade it which gives better results then already recording at lower rates and bitdepths.
Old 24th August 2007
  #7
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44.1 for music and 48 for film/video/dvds

i have no problem working at 44.1 The good thing is it will always sound the same because there is no SR conversion , there are miles of threads on this here



Old 24th August 2007
  #8
I'm at 96k and loving it. Plus my converters sounds better at 96k :(
Old 24th August 2007
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nu-tra View Post
I'm at 96k and loving it. Plus my converters sounds better at 96k :(
Thats what I feared!
Old 24th August 2007
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainy-taxi View Post
If you record at higher samplerates and bitdepths and dither down, usually the lower version would sound better.
The big advantage is that you start with the best source matrial available and degrade it which gives better results then already recording at lower rates and bitdepths.
This is why I always record in 96 32, plus I do freeze audio tracks so 32bit is needed.
Ah well, only one thing to do. Quad core beast!!
Old 24th August 2007
  #11
I have a quad core with 10 gigs of ram. Plus a for bank raid system. Nothing is slowing me down.
Old 24th August 2007
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nu-tra View Post
I have a quad core with 10 gigs of ram. Plus a for bank raid system. Nothing is slowing me down.
Holy SH!T, thats the way to do it!!!
Old 24th August 2007
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainy-taxi View Post
Dithering is not really deviding by 2... Its a much more complicated process to truncate everything to a lower samplerate and bitdepth and add some noise.

Dithering and sample rate conversion are not the same thing. Two very separate and different processes.

These bi-weekly sample rate threads contain the most informative as well as most blatantly incorrect and misinformed posts on gearslutz. I love it.
Old 24th August 2007
  #14
Another thing:

Most plug-ins sound better at higher sampling rates. The top end of EQs gets smoother, and the individual character of compressors becomes more defined. At least IMO.
Old 24th August 2007
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrotto View Post
Another thing:

Most plug-ins sound better at higher sampling rates. The top end of EQs gets smoother, and the individual character of compressors becomes more defined. At least IMO.
this is very true what would be the best way to approach this for mixing then?, say i have a pt session all tracked at 96k or 88k but i only have 1 accell card to mix on(it sux), what would be the best solution for me to maintain a higher track count/plugin count. My theory would be (and im about to test this over the next month) to make a copy of the final session ready for mixing, and have pt convert it to 44.1k then do a mix or stems, then when it's sounding how you want it import the stems settings and fx send/returns/session data back into the orignal 96k session, then do the real bounce to disk,(not buss) on the orginal 96k to get the best out of you're converters clock with the plugin settings from the 44.1 session. then put all the stems back into 1 final 96k session with you're master mix buss processing and do any final touches or minimal rides, and then the final mix print at 96/24 for mastering. I wonder how well this would work.
Old 24th August 2007
  #16
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I swear that I can hear reverb and delay trails better in 96.
Old 24th August 2007
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willerichey View Post
I swear that I can hear reverb and delay trails better in 96.

People who are given sugar pills but told they are on prozac also swear they feel happier...
Old 24th August 2007
  #18
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"32 bit floating" is fine for an ITB mixdown, but it is not gaining anything to store a 24 bit signal coming from an A-D converter as a 32 bit/floating file, unless you are doing ITB processing to it prior to storage of the file. It's just a 32 bit representation of a 24 bit signal. I don't know of any currently available A-D that outputs more than 24 bits. If you know of one, please let us know.

I won't even bother responding to the dither comment since that has nothing to do with sample-rate conversion from 96K or 88.2K down to 44.1K.

The thread really has nothing to do with the "96K sounds better" comments, since it was a discussion of how to get more processing headroom for a project that ultimately goes to CD. We know it sounds better. But what are the post originator's options for getting more processing headroom while trying to have the best quality final project? Anyone else going to give some real comments besides "96K sounds better"?
Old 24th August 2007
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrebes View Post
"32 bit floating" is fine for an ITB mixdown, but it is not gaining anything to store a 24 bit signal coming from an A-D converter as a 32 bit/floating file, unless you are doing ITB processing to it prior to storage of the file. It's just a 32 bit representation of a 24 bit signal. I don't know of any currently available A-D that outputs more than 24 bits. If you know of one, please let us know.

I won't even bother responding to the dither comment since that has nothing to do with sample-rate conversion from 96K or 88.2K down to 44.1K.

The thread really has nothing to do with the "96K sounds better" comments, since it was a discussion of how to get more processing headroom for a project that ultimately goes to CD. We know it sounds better. But what are the post originator's options for getting more processing headroom while trying to have the best quality final project? Anyone else going to give some real comments besides "96K sounds better"?
Really, it boils down to processing power! At the moment I can manage fine, every time the processor starts to peak I just freeze a few of the channels I'm happy with and move on. (Thanks Steinberg!!)

The reason I asked the question was that a lot of big studios track in 44.1 24 bit and kinda thought, if they do it, why can't I. I know 96 32 is best for me but I thought I'd ask the question.

Thanks to all for your input. My decision is to stay in 96 32 and get a better pc!! It's ok, I like beans on toast anyway!!heh
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