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Channel Strip Control Surface Control Surfaces
Old 24th August 2007
  #31
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Animus's Avatar
 

Will the Remote SL autoselect the channel you have selected in the sequencer without having to navigate to it on the Remote's controls? That is a big thing for me and why I love my Alphatrack with Nuendo 3.
Old 24th August 2007
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
Will the Remote SL autoselect the channel you have selected in the sequencer without having to navigate to it on the Remote's controls? That is a big thing for me and why I love my Alphatrack with Nuendo 3.
I'm not sure, I've never used it as a DAW control surface. I already have a FW-1884 with an FE-8. The Remote SL is used strictly for Plug-in and synth control for me. Which ever Automapped plug or synth has focus on the screen gets controlled.

Based on the little I've read about Nuendo compatibility, I'd assume the answer is yes. It has built-in templates and code for interacting with Nuendo with the mixer (including global transport controls), built-in effects and, of course, VSTs.

The Remote SL's driver handles Nuendo compatibility and Automap works with it for the plugs. Here is a link to Automap WRT Nuendo:

Novation Music :: Automap-supporting Applications
Old 24th August 2007
  #33
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by manthe View Post
Actually, it does indeed support AU plugs!

It works with any plug because it is independent of the plug-in code and/or architecture. The Automap server creates a wrapped version of the plug. Given that VST and AU are 'standards' with reliable specs, the server can always work. I've never seen it fail on any plug or instrument.

Automap is actually very extensive. It does more than just plug-in control...it does mixer and transport, as well as other things. This unit also has HUI support for PT.

Check this link...

Novation Music :: Automap-supporting Applications
Thanks dude. That kinda looks perfect, especially for the price.
Old 24th August 2007
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manthe View Post
I'm not sure, I've never used it as a DAW control surface. I already have a FW-1884 with an FE-8. The Remote SL is used strictly for Plug-in and synth control for me. Which ever Automapped plug or synth has focus on the screen gets controlled.

Based on the little I've read about Nuendo compatibility, I'd assume the answer is yes. It has built-in templates and code for interacting with Nuendo with the mixer (including global transport controls), built-in effects and, of course, VSTs.

The Remote SL's driver handles Nuendo compatibility and Automap works with it for the plugs. Here is a link to Automap WRT Nuendo:

Novation Music :: Automap-supporting Applications
What I mean is that if you have a plugin selected on your DAW does the Remote SL automatically follow that selection. Or do you have to manually navigate (on the Remote) to that channel then to the pluging on that channel if you know what I mean.
Old 24th August 2007
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manthe View Post
Actually, it does indeed support AU plugs!

It works with any plug because it is independent of the plug-in code and/or architecture. The Automap server creates a wrapped version of the plug. Given that VST and AU are 'standards' with reliable specs, the server can always work. I've never seen it fail on any plug or instrument.
Wow! Thanks for the link and info.

I tried the Novation SL when it was first released, but this was before there was Automapping for DP. Looks like I've been missing out on exactly what I want!

I think I missed the plug-in "wrapping" development, which seems to be the key to making it work, automagically.

Really, thanks for this. Now I have to unload some gear to buy one...

Cheers
Old 24th August 2007
  #36
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manthe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
What I mean is that if you have a plugin selected on your DAW does the Remote SL automatically follow that selection. Or do you have to manually navigate (on the Remote) to that channel then to the pluging on that channel if you know what I mean.
I got you now...and yes, it follows screen focus...at least in SONAR.
Old 24th August 2007
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildstar View Post
I've always had the most trouble getting control surfaces to talk to UAD plug-ins.
Wildstar, are you "non-VST" by chance? I've never seen any noticeable difference between my UADs and any other VST parameters, but that's only in PC Nuendo.

George

PS- FWIW, anyone who hasn't, should check out Thorsten Klose's MIDIBox stuff at www.uCApps.de . It's DIY of course, but you can build pretty much anything you need and the topic of channel strip controllers has come up a bunch.
Old 24th August 2007
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manthe View Post
I got you now...and yes, it follows screen focus...at least in SONAR.
So if you don't mind being hit with 100 questions about this thing... i've got some more for you.

My main interest is in using something like this with a big channelstrip plug-in, like Wavearts Trackplug. Do you find that the plug-in parameters automap onto the controller in ways that make sense?

Though I guess it doesn't matter, since you can reamp them? Does the controller remember your remappings?

Which DAW are you using it with, and can you list some more plug-ins you've used it with? Any other Virtual Instruments besides the ones you've mentioned?

Many thanks, again.
Old 24th August 2007
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jidis View Post
Wildstar, are you "non-VST" by chance? I've never seen any noticeable difference between my UADs and any other VST parameters, but that's only in PC Nuendo.

George
AU plugs (including UAD,) Digital Performer, on a Mac (obviously,) and a Mackie Control Universal.

DP's plug-in control implementation for the Mackie Control is somewhat... lame. UAD and Elemental plugs have never worked with it, and other developers' plug-ins are hit or miss. The stock DP plug-ins work fine with it, no surprise.

I'm currently experimenting with setting up Kore as a plug-in controller for non-Native Instruments effects plug-ins. It's a somewhat involved programming process, compared to what I wish it were like. Automap seems to be a stroke of genius.
Old 24th August 2007
  #40
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manthe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildstar View Post
So if you don't mind being hit with 100 questions about this thing... i've got some more for you.

My main interest is in using something like this with a big channelstrip plug-in, like Wavearts Trackplug. Do you find that the plug-in parameters automap onto the controller in ways that make sense?

Though I guess it doesn't matter, since you can reamp them? Does the controller remember your remappings?

Which DAW are you using it with, and can you list some more plug-ins you've used it with? Any other Virtual Instruments besides the ones you've mentioned?

Many thanks, again.
Don't mid at all!

It typically maps them automatically in a way that is somewhat logical, I guess. Sometimes it misses the boat, but it usually does good. And, if you're in a hurry, its fine.

I have a decent handful of plugs that I use all of the time. When you build templates for them, you save them and that plug-in always loads with your template until you tell it not too.

In terms of channel strips, I've built templates for my Duende, The UAD-1 Neve 88RS, the UAD-1 CS1 and the Vintage Channel that comes bundles with SONAR.

I use SONAR and PTLE on my PC and Logic Express anf MOTU DP 4.5 on my Mac. It works the same with all 4.

Off the top of my head, here is a list of plugs and synths I use or have used with it:

UAD-1

1073 (full and LS)
33609 (both)
LA2A
1176LN and LS
Space Echo
CS-1
Realverb Pro
Fairchild Comp
Dimension D
Boss Ce1
Pultec Pro
Precision EQ
Precision Limiter
Precision Multiband
Plate 140

SSL Duende:

Channel Strip
Bus Compressor

SSL LMC

PSP:

Vintage Warmer 1.65
Lexicon 84 model
Pianoverb
608 delay

SONAR Bundled:

Sonitus Comp
Sonitus Reverb
Sonitus Delay
Vintage Channel
Lexicon Pantheon

Fish (Free VSTs) Compressors

Modern (all)

Sonalksis 315 comp

Voxengo:

Audio Delay
Beeper
Boogex
Latency Delay
EssEQ
MSED
OldSkoolVerb
Overtone GEQ
Stereo Touch
Sample Delay
Tempo Delay
Tube Amp
Elephant
Crunchessor
Warmifier

SYNTHS:

Ivory
NI Akoustik Piano
NI Elektrik Piano
NI B4II
NI Pro53
NI FM7
Z3ta
IK Miroslav Philharmonik
Novation Bass Station
Arturia Moog

I have NI Guitar Rig 2, but I've never tried it. To me, that is not a good fit!

I'm sure there are 2 or 5 things that I'm missing, but this gives you an idea. Plus, like I said, the support is really, REALLY good. I had completely fouled my install of it at one point after changing a bunch of things on my system and re-installing some stuff. There support worked with me very patiently for a week until every last glitch was sorted...they were extremely knowledgeable and prompt too.

There are very few products that I buy...especially in this price range that I am this happy with. This thing i s great, its fun and it really, actually works and increases my productivity. I HIGHLY recommend getting one with a keyboard. I can't tell you how many times I've sat at my desk and loaded a synth part and ddid a fix or a quick 2nd/3rd/4th/etc part, or just played around and wrote something or came up with ideas. It adds a whole new dimension to the product.

I just bought Battery 3 today. I have not installed it yet, but the REMOTE has velocity pads and an X/Y pad...I think it is going to be perfect for this! I am excited. I was about to buy a Korg Pad or a Trigger finger...then I remembered the pads on the REMOTE!

Also, the tech support guy told me they are going to be doing another update soon to the drivers, templates MIDI sysx stuff and Automap. He said it will make it even better. I can't imagine what will change. Maybe support for different DAWs and products will be expanded. But, it seems to just 'work' with whatever I throw at it!
Old 24th August 2007
  #41
Deleted User
Guest
If you can solder, you can build a Midibox.

If you can build a midibox, you can build a control surface for everything.

I mean, instead of paying thousands of dollars on something that basically is a midibox with some shiny buttons...
Here you go:
www.uCApps.de
Old 24th August 2007
  #42
Gear Addict
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manthe View Post
In terms of channel strips, I've built templates for my Duende, The UAD-1 Neve 88RS, the UAD-1 CS1 and the Vintage Channel that comes bundles with SONAR.

I use SONAR and PTLE on my PC and Logic Express anf MOTU DP 4.5 on my Mac. It works the same with all 4.

Off the top of my head, here is a list of plugs and synths I use or have used with it:
Wow! That pretty much answers all of my questions!

Thanks very much for taking the time to give such a detailed post. I'm sold. As soon as I can scrape together the funds, I'm buying one. The 25- or 37-key version would fit very nicely on my desk...

It will kind of make my Kore redundant. Hmmm...

Cheers
Old 24th August 2007
  #43
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manthe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildstar View Post
Wow! That pretty much answers all of my questions!

Thanks very much for taking the time to give such a detailed post. I'm sold. As soon as I can scrape together the funds, I'm buying one. The 25- or 37-key version would fit very nicely on my desk...

It will kind of make my Kore redundant. Hmmm...

Cheers
I can't say enough good things about it. I've never used a kore, but I've read a lot about how tons of things just don't work with it. Plus, the Novation has 10x the controls and....AUTOMAP...Automap makes it rule!

In all seriousness, Automap, in concept, is genius...I'm surprised they actually pulled it off. Seems like it would be a tough thing to design.

Let me know if you're selling anything interesting to get the funds for the REMOTE...I'm in 'buy' mode right now!
Old 25th August 2007
  #44
Gear Nut
 

This is starting to sound a bit like the shopping channel. The Novation SL, while probably worth it's price, has not gotten all good reviews. It's plastic and .. well, just look at those faders.

I been looking for a control surface for the Duende - now I'm considering building one myself.

The plan would be to get real SSL knobs and put them on rotary pots. And with a 800x480 pix LCD (the duende channel strip is 800x400) put all its 40 or so knobs/buttons together with some channel select and transport functions in a nice remote control box looking somewhat like the TC Electronics 6000 controller. The LCD would just be feeding off a graphics card in the computer and showing the channel strip GUI.

Any suggestions?

And yeah, a friend in software r&d is getting hooked on the project so it could actually happen! If we go ahead we'll post the progress here!

/MH
Old 25th August 2007
  #45
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DrDeltaM's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mile-High View Post
This is starting to sound a bit like the shopping channel. The Novation SL, while probably worth it's price, has not gotten all good reviews. It's plastic and .. well, just look at those faders.

I been looking for a control surface for the Duende - now I'm considering building one myself.

The plan would be to get real SSL knobs and put them on rotary pots. And with a 800x480 pix LCD (the duende channel strip is 800x400) put all its 40 or so knobs/buttons together with some channel select and transport functions in a nice remote control box looking somewhat like the TC Electronics 6000 controller. The LCD would just be feeding off a graphics card in the computer and showing the channel strip GUI.

Any suggestions?

And yeah, a friend in software r&d is getting hooked on the project so it could actually happen! If we go ahead we'll post the progress here!

/MH
Where do we order? heh
Old 25th August 2007
  #46
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Jim,

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
We looked very seriously at this. At the time we made the decision that we would not be able to make it the way we wanted for the price you all wanted...

Out of interest, what would you be willing to pay for something like this?
When was this? As a wannabe DIY guy I don't see why this should cost so much? I understand that you of course also need to make a buck out of it as well, but even with that in regard

Personally I think it should be priced a little under the Mackie Controller and support more than just the Duende. I would buy it in a heartbeat, I hate using the mouse.

On the other hand I would also like to see cheaper SSL consoles, SSL square off against Digidesign with a Soundscape-SSL-hybrid and a whole lot more... But I guess SSL doesn't exist to please my needs only heh
Old 25th August 2007
  #47
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mile-High View Post
This is starting to sound a bit like the shopping channel. The Novation SL, while probably worth it's price, has not gotten all good reviews. It's plastic and .. well, just look at those faders.

I been looking for a control surface for the Duende - now I'm considering building one myself.

The plan would be to get real SSL knobs and put them on rotary pots. And with a 800x480 pix LCD (the duende channel strip is 800x400) put all its 40 or so knobs/buttons together with some channel select and transport functions in a nice remote control box looking somewhat like the TC Electronics 6000 controller. The LCD would just be feeding off a graphics card in the computer and showing the channel strip GUI.

Any suggestions?

And yeah, a friend in software r&d is getting hooked on the project so it could actually happen! If we go ahead we'll post the progress here!

/MH
Wow man, that sounds sweet! And now look what you did! You triggered my creative nerve as well! Ah well, time to look through all those DIY documents again...
Old 25th August 2007
  #48
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by el cochino View Post
You mean something like the center section of the Sony DMX R100 boards plus one moving fader? Yeah, that'd be great to have.


When i see something like this it just really turns me off, looks like something you would see in a cockpit, just looks cheap looking, i record on a digital format but thank god my board is not digital, i even hate the sound of the live ones.
Old 25th August 2007
  #49
Gear Nut
 

What extras would be desirable?

A motorized fader? (it would make this thing more complicated to build) ..Transport controls? ...anything else? ...ashtray?

The original thought was to keep it compact and have only the channel strip controls and channel select buttons. If you want a fader and transport there are other options (Presonus FaderPort)- and these features would make it more complicated. (and bigger)

We wanna make something compact, solid and as un-cluttered as possible. (but then again, the Duende channel strip has about 40 different controls..)

I'm gonna post some drawings tonight when I'm back at the hotel.
Old 25th August 2007
  #50
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mile-High View Post
What extras would be desirable?

A motorized fader? (it would make this thing more complicated to build) ..Transport controls? ...anything else? ...ashtray?

The original thought was to keep it compact and have only the channel strip controls and channel select buttons. If you want a fader and transport there are other options (Presonus FaderPort)- and these features would make it more complicated. (and bigger)

We wanna make something compact, solid and as un-cluttered as possible. (but then again, the Duende channel strip has about 40 different controls..)

I'm gonna post some drawings tonight when I'm back at the hotel.
I think the TC Electronics 6000 controller would be a good model for your channel strip controller, but instead of making it just for Duende I think a universal controller might be of more interest. I like the idea of having a small PC screen that you can see the plugin GUI on, but instead of rotary pots I would like small rotary encoders with small lcd screens to say what parameter is assigned to it (kinda like the way Euphonix has there channel strips set up). And just for fun...what's the chances of making it wireless like the Tranzport. Anyways, it will be nice to see a drawing of what you come up with though....so do post something when you get a chance.
Old 25th August 2007
  #51
jje
Gear Nut
 
jje's Avatar
 

I'd think that making it just like a console channel strip (although not necessarily three feet long and two inches wide ) would be pretty good. I mean to really make it feel like you've got a channel from a console in front of you, it would have to have a fader (which may as well be motorized to make automation easier) three knobs per eq band (gain/freq/q) at four bands (low, low mid, high mid, high) possibly low and high shelf knobs (since most plugs have that) and solo/mute buttons. I'd envision it as sort of like a tranzport but with all the knobs you need to just twist, slide, push, etc. then push a button and go to the next channel to do the same thing. Maybe have the knob functionality kick in when you open a plug (like with the automapping) but have the channel select, fader, solo/mute buttons, and transport controls always available.

Sounds like a lot, but if done right it could fill a pretty big void. I must admit that the major thing I hate about the daw controllers out there now is that they only have all the stuff you need until you look above the fader and see one friggin rotary pot!!! Sure one could learn and get used to adjusting one parameter at a time (adjust q - click - adjust gain - click - adjust frequency - click...oops, too much gain - click click click - turn...) but that's a lot of time adjusting things and it would be so much easier to just have ALL the knobs right there like you would if sitting in front of a real console.
Old 26th August 2007
  #52
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This is a subject I used to beat a while ago (not here) and it seemed to fall on deaf ears. Why in the world Behringer does not combine the BCF2000 and the BCR2000 into somthing that has more assignable knobs to twiddle and looks more like a real console is beyond me. It seems really obvious. Maybe they are waiting for Mackie. .

I use 3 bcf2000s in a 24 track format It works so fine and I spent less that 300 buck for them. (used). I can quick up a mix for clients with them in no time but have to mouse the EQ. I refuse to use that rotory for anything but pan for sanity's sake.

:Ron
Old 26th August 2007
  #53
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The BCF2000 is certainly one of the Behringer products that are usable. Just sucks that it doesn't have a display...
Old 26th August 2007
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitman View Post
This is a subject I used to beat a while ago (not here) and it seemed to fall on deaf ears. Why in the world Behringer does not combine the BCF2000 and the BCR2000 into somthing that has more assignable knobs to twiddle and looks more like a real console is beyond me. It seems really obvious. Maybe they are waiting for Mackie. .

I use 3 bcf2000s in a 24 track format It works so fine and I spent less that 300 buck for them. (used). I can quick up a mix for clients with them in no time but have to mouse the EQ. I refuse to use that rotory for anything but pan for sanity's sake.

:Ron
A BCF2000 with 8 rotary encoders per channel would be great. But like you said, they're probably waiting for Mackie...who knows, maybe they'll see this thread and reconsider.
Old 26th August 2007
  #56
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markus enochson's Avatar
 

super happy with sl remote integration in live. in logic its still very good and in pt its hui based so it all works

m
Old 26th August 2007
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velvet View Post
I posted that some posts up, but no one read it.
Probably not slutty enough, or too inexpensive.
Old 26th August 2007
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zwaps View Post
I posted that some posts up, but no one read it.
Probably not slutty enough, or too inexpensive.
:D

I already designed a channelstrip controller concept with Midibox stuff and was about to make it happen but then Alphatrack came out and saved me from another going-to-last-forever building project.


this a bit off topic but if there are people who like build things, check out Doepfer's OEM kits, they are very handy.

Homepage englisch

-Tomi
Old 27th August 2007
  #59
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by esaias View Post
:D

I already designed a channelstrip controller concept with Midibox stuff and was about to make it happen but then Alphatrack came out and saved me from another going-to-last-forever building project.


this a bit off topic but if there are people who like build things, check out Doepfer's OEM kits, they are very handy.

Homepage englisch

-Tomi
I like my Alphatrack, but not for controlling plugins. I still find it easier and more practical to use my mouse rather than switching banks and using the three encoders.

And is there a chance you could post your designs for your channelstrip controller?
Old 10th September 2007
  #60
Gear Nut
 

CS Control Surface CAD print-out

Hi,

Better late than never - here's the first drawing of our channel strip control surface. As you can see there's not much detail yet - but you get the concept.

The knob layout is based on the Duende channel strip, but it's gonna be compatible with most common plugin channel strips.

No buttons. To increase compatibility we'll use a touch sensitive LCD display. This is a 16:9 wide 10.2" LCD with 800x480 resolution.

As you can see on this print-out there's empty space to the right of the screen and knobs. We're considering a motorized fader and transport controls here. But it's a decision still to be made. It makes the box bigger and more complicated. I'm torn between functionality (transport controls would be great!) and the fact that we could make it really slim if we just have the channel strip function.

All input, ideas, suggestions, etc would be greatly appreciated!

/Olov

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