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SUMMING BOXES POLL Summing Mixers
View Poll Results: UNDER EXPERIENCE CHOOSE YOUR FAVORITE SUMMING BOX SYSTEM(ONLY REAL EXPERIENCE)
API SYSTEM
12 Votes - 25.53%
SPL MIXDREAM
9 Votes - 19.15%
NEVE 8816
7 Votes - 14.89%
SHADOWS HILLS EQUINOX
5 Votes - 10.64%
PHOENIX AUDIO
10 Votes - 21.28%
SSL X RACK
4 Votes - 8.51%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

Old 19th August 2007
  #1
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SUMMING BOXES POLL

here you go!
please pick only if you hear some summing box!!
Old 19th August 2007
  #2
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BradM's Avatar
Huh?
Old 19th August 2007
  #3
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Why isn't Dangerous on the list?

Best....H
Old 19th August 2007
  #4
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reid's Avatar
 

Which API? DSM or 7800+8200?

Folcrom + whatever?

Tonelux?
Old 19th August 2007
  #5
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Joe Porto's Avatar
 

I use a Tonelux system, but it's a mixer, not a summing box.
Old 19th August 2007
  #6
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Faderjockey's Avatar
 

bad poll...Missing lots of summing boxes..

Or were you looking at each of these and wanting a stranger to tell you what to get?

I use a Folcrom..not on the list.
Old 19th August 2007
  #7
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why no Speck X-sum. THAT would be my choice.

although the Shadow Hills would be my choice if i could afford it.

actually, i can't even afford a folcrum
Old 19th August 2007
  #8
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PrinsJan's Avatar
 

One vote for the Dangerous D-box !
Old 19th August 2007
  #9
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T_R_S's Avatar
I really like the George Massenberg summing box
Old 19th August 2007
  #10
84K
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84K's Avatar
i wonder ow many people have heard all of them!!

I hear the Shadow Hills is awesome. Some friends did a shootout and said that all the others in the shootout were around the same, pretty close here or there, then there was the Shadow Hills, which was far above the rest. Unfortunately, I do not remember which other summing boxes were in that shootout.
Old 19th August 2007
  #11
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reid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Porto View Post
I use a Tonelux system, but it's a mixer, not a summing box.
Open to debate - I know 2 guys running their Apogee DA16s into 16 channels of Tonelux pres, no dynamics, no faders and EQ only on the master buss out. They thought they were buying a summing solution...
Old 19th August 2007
  #12
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I use a 40 input Tonelux and it's more like a mixer than a summing box.
Old 19th August 2007
  #13
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Joe Porto's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by reid View Post
Open to debate - I know 2 guys running their Apogee DA16s into 16 channels of Tonelux pres, no dynamics, no faders and EQ only on the master buss out. They thought they were buying a summing solution...
No, it's not open to debate. My system is most definitely a mixer. It's got EQs, busing, aux, faders and all that good stuff. I think you misinterpreted my post.

And yes, you can put together a TX system for summing, but any system you put together will have level and pan controls, so it's still a mixer even if you only use it for summing.

summing box=unity gain inputs summed to 1 or more outputs
mixer=input channels with level and, optionally, pan control summed to one or more outputs
You can sum in a mixer, but you cannot mix on a summing box.
Old 19th August 2007
  #14
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UnDeFiNeD's Avatar
 

I have only had thorough experience with the Neve summingbox, wich I would say is the biggest peace of junk I have ever heard. Distorted in a very bad way!
We opened it up, and saw that all the channels go via a flatcabel, right over the summingchip! needless to say this will give you "that analog grain"...but maybe not the type you where looking for.

Imo, Neve is going down the exact same road as focusrite did, excellent brand, excellent rep, but whoring out it's name to boxes of junk, ending in homerecorder-prosumer junk. That SAE takeover didn't do them any good.

Pzz
Old 20th August 2007
  #15
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API summing system the ones with 8200!!
Old 20th August 2007
  #16
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jchadstopherhuez's Avatar
 

i've used the phoenix nicerizer alot...nice box...good color....build quality not so great....the unit i had came with mucho problems.

sounded great though.

neve 8816 did not blow me away...dangerous box was cool...i guess.

had the best luck with my folcrum and various pre/comps combinations..

lately daking pre/eq into daking comps...and sometimes api 2500 or AS C2.

folcrum works for me.

until i get a new desk....probably trident 80 again...or neotek ..
Old 20th August 2007
  #17
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reid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Porto View Post
No, it's not open to debate. My system is most definitely a mixer. It's got EQs, busing, aux, faders and all that good stuff. I think you misinterpreted my post.
Eh? I didn't allude to what your system is or isn't at any point in my post, Blimey, some people....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Porto View Post
And yes, you can put together a TX system for summing, but any system you put together will have level and pan controls, so it's still a mixer even if you only use it for summing.

summing box=unity gain inputs summed to 1 or more outputs
mixer=input channels with level and, optionally, pan control summed to one or more outputs
You can sum in a mixer, but you cannot mix on a summing box.


Your pedantry does you proud - expect Encyclopedia Britannica to be in touch soon with a request for your definitive entry "summing boxes, mixers; differences therein contained". They're eager for your insight.

Meanwhile, here in the real world, it appears that almost none of the manufacturers of summing 'solutions' share your rather rigid view of what constitutes a summing box, when describing their products. Clearly, they are in the wrong.
Old 20th August 2007
  #18
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aryschien's Avatar
 

Why no Manley 16x2 & Chandler Mini Rack Mixer in the list, when you've already put something lesser?
Old 20th August 2007
  #19
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D.A.S.'s Avatar
 

Our very own <a href="http://shop.digitalaudioservice.de/product_info.php/products_id/1832"> Mirror Summing Box</a> is missing, too.
Old 20th August 2007
  #20
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nomatic's Avatar
The Shadow Hills is my Favorite

We Picked the Shadow Hills equinox for The Hideout studios in Austin TX.
It is a truly remarkable piece of Kit.
Old 20th August 2007
  #21
Gear Head
 

I have an Inward Connections DMC-1 summing mixer/monitor controller. Best purchase i've made in a long time.
Old 20th August 2007
  #22
SM Pro Audio PM8 (x5). Passive=clean. Many other good ones not on this poll list.
Old 20th August 2007
  #23
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Joe Porto's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by reid View Post
Eh? I didn't allude to what your system is or isn't at any point in my post, Blimey, some people....





Your pedantry does you proud - expect Encyclopedia Britannica to be in touch soon with a request for your definitive entry "summing boxes, mixers; differences therein contained". They're eager for your insight.

Meanwhile, here in the real world, it appears that almost none of the manufacturers of summing 'solutions' share your rather rigid view of what constitutes a summing box, when describing their products. Clearly, they are in the wrong.
Read the post you first replied to. Like I said, you misinterpreted my post. I simply said my system was not just a summing box.

And lighten up while your at it. That vein in your forehead looks like it's about to blow. If my petty post garnered that type of reaction, I'd hate to see you talk politics!
Old 20th August 2007
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logichead View Post
Why isn't Dangerous on the list?

Best....H
+1
Old 20th August 2007
  #25
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vince @ speck's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by neon View Post
here you go!
please pick only if you hear some summing box!!


Maybe this isn't the place to ask this question but I will anyway. Specifically, what is your definition of a summing box? And what is you definition of a mixer?
Old 21st August 2007
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by vince @ speck View Post
Maybe this isn't the place to ask this question but I will anyway. Specifically, what is your definition of a summing box? And what is you definition of a mixer?
I would have to agree with the question... and further ask:

(Vince, correct me if I am wrong, but all of my stuff has summing in it, I would assume yours does too... you know, those little resistors that 'sum' all the channels together into the master thingy) So is there a line that divides the summers from the mixers? Maybe someone could enlighten us...

Maybe we would suggest that a summing box is the use and not the hardware. If I am running a PT session into a mixer that is basically set and not touched, then am I summing?

If I am letting the PT session play and am mixing on the "device in question" then have I moved from summing to mixing?

The Tonelux FX2 is a basic summing system. The MX2 is a basic mixing system, but either are used for either.

Of course maybe we just feel bitter because we are old and feel left out.
Old 21st August 2007
  #27
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Joe Porto's Avatar
 

Hey Paul....

Aren't semantics fun?

I considered Chandler and the Phoenix before purchasing the Tonelux. I went with the TX because it is just so much more versatile.

The TX has an very open high end, and it NEVER sounds harsh. When you push the TX, it doesn't get dirty, it just gets bigger and fatter. I always used a stereo bus compressor (drawmer 1968). I use it very rarely now, as slamming the TX just gels everything together, but the open highs and transients remain intact. I love tracking through it because it just makes everything sound like a record. It puts me in the mood to play and be creative.

I guess with the Tonelux, you have the best of both worlds. You can use it as a summing solution, but you always have additional options, and you can start small and let the system grow with you.

And the EQs are freakin' amazing too.
Old 23rd August 2007
  #28
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ulysses's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneLux View Post
I would have to agree with the question... and further ask:

(Vince, correct me if I am wrong, but all of my stuff has summing in it, I would assume yours does too... you know, those little resistors that 'sum' all the channels together into the master thingy) So is there a line that divides the summers from the mixers? Maybe someone could enlighten us...

Maybe we would suggest that a summing box is the use and not the hardware. If I am running a PT session into a mixer that is basically set and not touched, then am I summing?
Joe Porto is right: A Summing Device is a mixer that doesn't have faders and stuff on it. If it has knobs, then you lose the recall ability. A summing device is one that *only* does summing. The point is to eliminate variables so a mix can be recalled by the computer exactly; and, perhaps secondarily, to eliminate extraneous circuitry from the signal path.

Mixers *contain* summing devices. A Summing Device (like the Folcrom and the Dangerous and very few others) is a standalone unit that only does summing, and isn't a mixer.
Old 23rd August 2007
  #29
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I guess the only unit on the list that doesn't have knobs is the SPL.

We can split hairs but anything you use to send your mix thru that has a summing buss becomes a summing device. People have been doing this with large format mixers for quite some time now. Mixing in their DAW of choice using indv outputs/chs for the majority of the tracks and never touching the faders.
Isn't that the reason why all these summing products have come to the market? There is a demand to avoid the digital summing buss so people are now making products available for users who don't have either the cash, need or the facility to support a large format mixer.
Old 25th August 2007
  #30
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ulysses's Avatar
You're right, but you're kind of missing the point. It isn't just that a console is unnecessary, it's that many of the other features of the console would, in this context, get in the way and actually detract from the functionality of the DAW. This is the reason why it's useful to make a distinction between mixers and summers. If your goal is to combine tracks in the analog domain, but you're unwilling to give up the accurate recall ability of the DAW (which in my opinion is its only meaningful advantage) then you'll be specifically looking for a dedicated summing device, and not a console (or a line mixer with rotary pots, for that matter). I realize that this is not the thought process of everybody shopping for an analog back end for their DAW, but it's the reason why the first dedicated summing boxes were invented (Dangerous, RMS Folcrom, SPL). To be honest, I'm not entirely sure of the reasoning behind the other types out there. But I've stopped trying to understand the logic behind different approaches. Music is subjective, which means we each get to discover the inner workings of our own little universe.
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