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wall of guitars - mono compatibility...? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 19th August 2007
  #1
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gitarrero's Avatar
 

wall of guitars - mono compatibility...?

hi folks,

I'm doing guitar-driven stuff, sometimes hard, sometimes soft. here's a quick example of the hard one

final fear


to make it sound large I always double, quartiple etc my stuff & pan it. lately I noticed that some tracks have trouble with the mono compatibility, so I want to learn more about that topic & implement strageties to avoid such problems.

my questions:

* what are good strageties to avoid mono incompatibility in the mix? e.g. don't pan all guitars hard left/right, let some guitars more in the middle, use diffrent sounds for left & right doubles?

* how do I read a correlation-meter correctly..? this may sound stupid, but I'm serious - how do you "read" it..? do you look that the meter doesn't go much beyond +5..? do you just check it by ear (listen the mix in mono) and use the meter just as a quick reference?

thanks in advance for all tipps & comments,

martin
Old 19th August 2007
  #2
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andychamp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gitarrero View Post
what are good strageties to avoid mono incompatibility in the mix?
Monitoring in mono while tracking really helps. Even better: only 1 speaker.
Normally, the less you change your recording chain between takes, the better for mono compatibility: when the only difference between takes is your playing, that's when the doubling works best and has the least mono issues, IME.
The small timing differences are what gives the doubled parts their wide sound. I like to pan the parts all the way out, leave more room in the middle for the rest of the white noiseheh
With less than excellent players, I feel that stacking parts (2, 3 or more on each side) tends to "smear" the sound and the tightness gets lost. What's good for string sections is baaaaad for heavy gtrs.

Quote:
how do I read a correlation-meter correctly..? this may sound stupid, but I'm serious - how do you "read" it..? do you look that the meter doesn't go much beyond +5..? do you just check it by ear (listen the mix in mono) and use the meter just as a quick reference?
Can't say much here, except that the meters I know only go from -1 to +1. I think +1 is best and -1 is worst.
Apart from that, if your ears tell you "this sucks!", then the meter won't make you feel better anyway.
Old 19th August 2007
  #3
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p.s. I just saw that you work with SX3. You can delay your tracks in 100ths of milliseconds (forward and backwards), so you could use this to fix phase/polarity-related issues.
But better track it right to begin with.
Old 20th August 2007
  #4
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thanks andy!

anybody else here who can tell something about reading the correlation-meter or the topic in general..?

martin
Old 20th August 2007
  #5
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Not really, but can you tell me how you recorded these guitars? Axes, amps, mics etc? I just love this sound thumbsup


I agree with the post above. Try to keep your phase meter above the 0, any long strokes below it show nasty cancellation. I als have some troubles with keeping the guitars thick without mono issues, but i think (but i am not sure, anyone?) that those little cancelations in phase also contribute to a wide sound.
Old 20th August 2007
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogervandeberg View Post
Not really, but can you tell me how you recorded these guitars? Axes, amps, mics etc? I just love this sound thumbsup


I agree with the post above. Try to keep your phase meter above the 0, any long strokes below it show nasty cancellation. I als have some troubles with keeping the guitars thick without mono issues, but i think (but i am not sure, anyone?) that those little cancelations in phase also contribute to a wide sound.
thanks for the nice words

it was recorded with one guitar (drop C tuning, fat strings, long scale mensure). the guitar itself is quite a cheap axe ("legend" is the brand) but it has a good sound. I exchanged the bridge-PU with a heavey output one (famous brand, but I can't remember the name ). amps where simulators: pod2 (rectifier, less gain) and amplitude 2.

I noticed that the phase meter in some ramstein-tracks (german band, very heavy sound and excellent production) drop beyond 0 on some points (only for a short time). if I listen the track in mono, it still sounds good.
Old 20th August 2007
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andychamp View Post
Normally, the less you change your recording chain between takes, the better for mono compatibility: when the only difference between takes is your playing, that's when the doubling works best and has the least mono issues, IME..
I'd say that it's the opposite way around. Changing guitars, mics, mic position for the overdubs, is your best chance of NOT having the 20+ guitars disapear in mono.
Old 20th August 2007
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gitarrero View Post

I noticed that the phase meter in some ramstein-tracks (german band, very heavy sound and excellent production) drop beyond 0 on some points (only for a short time). if I listen the track in mono, it still sounds good.
That's normal and you will see this in almost any stereo recording.
Old 20th August 2007
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lasso View Post
That's normal and you will see this in almost any stereo recording.
for example lambretta's song "wave up girl" stays in the field around +5 and never drops into the near of 0 - and it sounds fat.

how can this be explained (I'm curious)?

thanks,

martin
Old 20th August 2007
  #10
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Usually the meter shows +1 through 0 to - 1 where values from +1 to 0 is from "absolute mono to "absolute stereo" and 0 to -1 is "absolute stereo" to absolute out of phase.

Are you sure about the -5 thing? Sound weird. If the meter is constantly showing negative phase somethings probably wrong with the mix. Could you upload a snip - that's legal right?
Old 20th August 2007
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lasso View Post
Are you sure about the -5 thing? Sound weird. If the meter is constantly showing negative phase somethings probably wrong with the mix. Could you upload a snip - that's legal right?
you can hear "wake up girl" it at iTunes. the phase stays in the upper range about +1 - and it sounds quite large & wide.

how does this come`?
Old 20th August 2007
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gitarrero View Post
you can hear "wake up girl" it at iTunes. the phase stays in the upper range about +1 - and it sounds quite large & wide.

how does this come`?
Can't find the track you're talking about at Itunes?
Old 20th August 2007
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lasso View Post
Can't find the track you're talking about at Itunes?
here are the infos from iTunes:

Wake Up Girl, Lambretta, Pop, 3:50,
Old 20th August 2007
  #14
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No luck....maybe different language options?
Old 20th August 2007
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lasso View Post
No luck....maybe different language options?
I sent you an email.
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