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Does anyone still using Pro tools TDM on 888 interfaces? Audio Interfaces
Old 18th August 2007
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Does anyone still using Pro tools TDM on 888 interfaces?

Does anyone still using Pro tools TDM on 888 interfaces? What the limitations? What is the lastest version which run on it? What about plugins?

Since the price of those are so good today, what you guys think? Better than LE stations?

Thanks
Old 18th August 2007
  #2
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lowfreq33's Avatar
 

Sure they do. Mostly it's people who bought them when they were new and don't see any reason to upgrade. You'll be stuck with version 6.9 and below, 7+ won't work with them. I've thought about going this route myself, but there's a lot of features in 7 that I really like. You can, however, connect 888's & 882's to the legacy port on HD interfaces, so there is the possibility of saving a little money on your interfaces, buying one 96 or 192 instead of 3.
Old 18th August 2007
  #3
Gear Head
 

The biggest limitations on the 888s are the quality of the converters. They also will only sample at 44.1, or 48k. The latest version of Pro Tools that will work on a mix system is 6.4. If you really want to get into a mix system (which can be really solid TDM system at a great price), skip the 888s and look into the Apogee Rosetta 800's with the Digi Mix card. Those are great sounding converters, and the prices on those have been dropping since the 16x came out.
Old 18th August 2007
  #4
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
With a mix system using 888 or 888/24 as an interface you will be stuck at PT 6.4 and Mac 10.3.5.

You can get turn key systems at great prices that could easily serve you well for years to come. I think its a great route for a lot people to go (I use a mix system every day with no major complaints.)

To me the only real downside is that if you mix ITB you will not be able to use ADC (automatic delay compensation) which I do not think works well on the new HD systems anyway, and also if you want to buy plug ins, it can be a pain with some manufactures. Many of them will not sell you older versions of their plug ins (I have no idea why)

The upside is that its a fine system, you can use TDM plug ins and you can track will virtually unnoticeable latency and tons of absolutely amazing sounding records were recorded using mix systems. If you want to upgrade converters, no problem, just add them to the system. One cool thing is that the older 888s which are practically given away these days are 16 bit, but the digital I/O is 24 bit, you you can hook up outboard converters to them and be working at 24 bit with high end conversion

For my own personal work there is no situation where I would choose a new LE system over an older mix system.
Old 19th August 2007
  #5
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InstituteOfNoise's Avatar
 

I'm still using a Mix +. 888/24bit. Got the 888, core card, 2 farm cards with cables for $1900 for another setup 4 months ago, compared to 4 years ago it was closer to $3k.

There a bunch of plugins I'd like to use that I can't but it's serving me fine so far.

Running PT 6.4.1 on OS 10.3.9. I did find that Reason 3.xx overwrites the Digi Core Audio files, so I recently had to grab the unsupported ones on the Digi site for Panther that do work on Tiger. I read a few others used them on the same setup I have, with no issues. I have it all running smooth now. There was a week of hair pulling though.
Old 19th August 2007
  #6
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colinmiller's Avatar
 

I don't think the D/A on the 888s are so bad, it's just the A/Ds. From what I have heard, TLA still uses 888s. I don't know if that is true, but a producer I have worked with who used Tom for a mix told me so.
Old 19th August 2007
  #7
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s.d.finley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfreq33 View Post
Sure they do. Mostly it's people who bought them when they were new and don't see any reason to upgrade. You'll be stuck with version 6.9 and below, 7+ won't work with them. I've thought about going this route myself, but there's a lot of features in 7 that I really like. You can, however, connect 888's & 882's to the legacy port on HD interfaces, so there is the possibility of saving a little money on your interfaces, buying one 96 or 192 instead of 3.
You cant use legacy interfaces with 7 and above? I will NEVER upgrade to 7!!

6.9.3cs 4 Life!!!
Old 19th August 2007
  #8
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colinmiller's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by s.d.finley View Post
You cant use legacy interfaces with 7 and above? I will NEVER upgrade to 7!!

6.9.3cs 4 Life!!!
You can, but only through the legacy port of the 192 as the legacy interfaces can't be physically connected to the HD cards. But perhaps you might have meant the MIX cards, which won't work in 7.
Old 19th August 2007
  #9
Gear Nut
 

Thanks for all replies.
Since that i will track on a Radar as a frontend for tracking, and just transfer for PT to make some edits, have more tracks and be the player on my mix OTB (to make automations...) A/D and plugins are not a big problem to me.
Do you guys know if they accept BWAV files?

After those great replies, I think i'm gonna get a TDM system for myself...

Take care
Fernando Sanches
Old 19th August 2007
  #10
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amost's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
To me the only real downside is that if you mix ITB you will not be able to use ADC (automatic delay compensation) which I do not think works well on the new HD systems anyway,

What don't you think works well about it? I'm talking about with plugs & auxes ITB...not routing external gear in & out.
Old 19th August 2007
  #11
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colinmiller's Avatar
 

Broadcast Wav is more of a software issue. I believe it was implemented somewhere in version 5. So unless you're using a version thats like pre-2001 then you should be safe.
Old 19th August 2007
  #12
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davedarling's Avatar
 

"To me the only real downside is that if you mix ITB you will not be able to use ADC (automatic delay compensation) which I do not think works well on the new HD systems anyway,"


?? what in your opinion does not work well with ADC ?

DD
Old 20th August 2007
  #13
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logicll's Avatar
 

this rocks I love my Mix system. I just did a Jazz album with my 888's. good to go...
Old 20th August 2007
  #14
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s.d.finley's Avatar
OK, I read that one post wrong....alil to much red wine! tutt

RCM, I use PTHD everyday, along with UAD card, and ADC with zero problems...

What problems have you encountered?
Old 20th August 2007
  #15
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by amost View Post
What don't you think works well about it? I'm talking about with plugs & auxes ITB...not routing external gear in & out.
I have a Mix system in my own room so I only use HD rigs at other studios, but in the testing I did I found ADC in HD to not compensate enough for perfect phase coherency.

On a recent project at another studio using PT7 on an HD rig, I duplicated a bass track and brought both tracks up on separate faders of the analog console. Mixing the two tracks together sounded perfect, but as soon as we put any plug in onto one of the channels, the phase got whacked. We tried many different plug ins (RTAS & TDM), we made sure ADC was on and experiment with different buffer settings. Nothing seemed help. The phase was always screwed up any time we put a plug in onto one of the channels. Just to make sure we were not going nuts we tried inserting external analog EQs and compressors on one of the channels via inserts on the consoles instead of the plug in and the phase between the tracks was rock solid.

I would be curious to hear if any one else has run into this or if it was just a ghost in the machine.
Old 20th August 2007
  #16
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colinmiller's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
I have a Mix system in my own room so I only use HD rigs at other studios, but in the testing I did I found ADC in HD to not compensate enough for perfect phase coherency.

On a recent project at another studio using PT7 on an HD rig, I duplicated a bass track and brought both tracks up on separate faders of the analog console. Mixing the two tracks together sounded perfect, but as soon as we put any plug in onto one of the channels, the phase got whacked. We tried many different plug ins (RTAS & TDM), we made sure ADC was on and experiment with different buffer settings. Nothing seemed help. The phase was always screwed up any time we put a plug in onto one of the channels. Just to make sure we were not going nuts we tried inserting external analog EQs and compressors on one of the channels via inserts on the consoles instead of the plug in and the phase between the tracks was rock solid.

I would be curious to hear if any one else has run into this or if it was just a ghost in the machine.
It's the opposite for me. When using plugins, it compensates just fine. But when using external stuff (hardware inserts), sometimes the delay falls in between samples. Eventide however came out with a delay compensation plugin that can go inbetween samples (up to 1/64th the SR).
Old 20th August 2007
  #17
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by colinmiller View Post
It's the opposite for me. When using plugins, it compensates just fine. But when using external stuff (hardware inserts), sometimes the delay falls in between samples. Eventide however came out with a delay compensation plugin that can go inbetween samples (up to 1/64th the SR).
The analog inserts I tested were on the console, not using PT hardware inserts.
Old 20th August 2007
  #18
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Sugarnutz's Avatar
I don't use the 888s, I have two 24-bit ADAT Bridges on a Mix+ system with a Panasonic/Ramsa DA7 digital mixer. The cool thing is that I got 32 I/O and 64 tracks for about $2K, less I suppose tham a new 003 and not being stuck with LE's limitations. Running PT 6.4.1 on an XP based PC, rock solid. I wish Digi would come out with something new so that the HD systems would be selling on Ebay for peanuts like the Mix systems.
Old 7th March 2008
  #19
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Benmrx's Avatar
 

Once again, I'm considering the idea of picking up an old Mix system. Now that the studio here has a decent console (Neotek Series IIIC), and a healthy dose of outboard, I'm thinking it's time to start mixing more OTB and less hybrid/stem style.

LE has served me fine for quite a long time, but the I/O limitation is really starting to hurt.

Honestly, the main thing I would miss from LE.....and I might get flamed for this.., are the Waves SSL plugs, mainly the ch. strip.
Old 7th March 2008
  #20
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Markus Stock's Avatar
 

I upgraded from Mix+ to HD half a year ago and don't look back, though my Mix+ rig has served me well for a couple of years. Not having Waves SSL anymore would now be drawback to me too, but on Mix+ I used Metric Halo Channelstrip which comes pretty close, though it's cleaner and not as aggressive sounding - but it'll work on Mix+ PT 6 Versions...
Old 7th March 2008
  #21
XJR
Gear Maniac
 

I'm still on Mix as well, plus I still have the previous D24 and DSP Farm system. Ohh and a Digi 001
It's been a great system for the money, never given a single problem

PT LE is very capable but for tracking I would sooner have an older TDM system, even if it is stuck at 6.4. Prices in the UK for PT Mix are crazy, a Mix core card and 882 will sell for less than a used 002 !!
Old 7th March 2008
  #22
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Protools Guy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernando S. View Post
Does anyone still using Pro tools TDM on 888 interfaces? What the limitations? What is the lastest version which run on it? What about plugins?

Since the price of those are so good today, what you guys think? Better than LE stations?

Thanks
I upgraded and got a 192 interface, but kept my 2x888/24's, and have them in the legacy port.
Old 7th March 2008
  #23
Gear Addict
 
Markus Stock's Avatar
 

You can use 888/24 (not the original 18 Bit ones), 882/20 (I still have one of these) or Adat Bridge on the Legacy Port of any of the new HD Interfaces - works fine here!
I still prefer an 888/24 over the converters of a Digi 002 we have in our B-Room. They have a certain presence to them in the upper mids which works for Rock/Metal stuff, though 96 i/o and 192 i/o are alot better in all aspects and alot less "coloured" (which isn't actually a term which one should use when it comes to Converters) as the old Digi Stuff....
Old 7th March 2008
  #24
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Me_Likey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernando S. View Post
Does anyone still using Pro tools TDM on 888 interfaces? What the limitations? What is the lastest version which run on it? What about plugins?

Since the price of those are so good today, what you guys think? Better than LE stations?

Thanks
RTAS plugins are more efficient on an LE system.

I used to have an 888/24 connected to my 192 legacy port. I basically used it as an extra digital I/O.

In a subjective test comparison, I found the 888 D/A converters worse than an M-Audio 1814. I took a mix and routed it through the 888/24, and also imported the same exact mix in to a M-Powered laptop set up. I was able to switch between them on the fly with a Mackie Big Knob. The difference was dramatic, and not favoring the 888. I'm assuming this won't go over big with 888/24 fans here.

It's a generational thing. 888/24 is first generation, the M-Audio thing is 2nd generation.

OTOH, if you bought a used Mix system at a great price, you could add an Apogee Mini-DAC or something, and avoid the built in converters. In fact, you could find an old 882/20 since IIRC it had 24 bit digital I/O.
Old 7th March 2008
  #25
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
The analog inserts I tested were on the console, not using PT hardware inserts.

....ADC on PT HD isnt geared towards hardware inserts. You're doing it wrong. Use the H/W insert compensators in

> setup> i/o setup > H/W insert delay tab.

That way works absolutely fine. That and Fairlights hardware compensators are the only ones that work !!
Old 7th March 2008
  #26
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
....ADC on PT HD isnt geared towards hardware inserts. You're doing it wrong. Use the H/W insert compensators in

> setup> i/o setup > H/W insert delay tab.

That way works absolutely fine. That and Fairlights hardware compensators are the only ones that work !!
You might want to re-read my posts. hardware inserts on ProTools were no part of the experiment. I was talking about problems induced by using plug ins with ADC. Thanks.
Old 7th March 2008
  #27
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pootkao's Avatar
We run a 96 complimented by a 888 via the Legacy port, and it serves us well. Most rock & roots stuff is being multitracked anyways, so only on drum sessions or the odd live session does the 888 get used. The 24-bit digital i/o is perfect for interfacing with the Lexicon 300 anyways, so its always doing something at least. I'd hate for it to feel left out.
Old 11th October 2008
  #28
Here for the gear
 

192 with pro tools mix

Anyone compared 192 with 888/24 on pro tools mix ?
Old 12th October 2008
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
You might want to re-read my posts. hardware inserts on ProTools were no part of the experiment. I was talking about problems induced by using plug ins with ADC. Thanks.
Sansamp?
Old 13th October 2008
  #30
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larry b's Avatar
 

I'm running a Mix+ system here at my place, with outboard convertors, several 888/24's, etc. PT 6 is fine. I have 7 LE on a G5 with mbox 2 just in case i feel like playing with PT7 features...

My mix system is in use practically 24/7, and i rarely have any issues with it. And it makes great sounding mixes.

If it ain't broke, dont fix it.
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