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Waves API 2 months later Control Surfaces
Old 25th September 2007
  #61
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Sigma's Avatar
people who cling to hardware are like people who kept their horse and buggy when the model T came out
Old 25th September 2007
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
people who cling to hardware are like people who kept their horse and buggy when the model T came out
well i like horses, good cars, alot of outboard gear, d-control... and good plugins. really digging API now but it's only been 2 days, will know more later.

pretty indifferent to buggies though.
Old 25th September 2007
  #63
Lives for gear
Does anyone have both the SSL and API? And if so, do you mix by using both? I like the SSL because the more instances you use on a mix, the more of a little console vibe you get with the analog button in...do u still get this kind of thing happening when you mix up the plugs?
Old 25th September 2007
  #64
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Methlab View Post
Does anyone have both the SSL and API? And if so, do you mix by using both?
have both. as i said in an ealier post, yesterday when i added a little 2K of the 550B on female vox, BINGO! (suited that particular vox more than 550A), and SSL E channel was preceding it on the same vocal, so i would say that they do work well teogether, at least they did yesterday on that thing. the fact that SSL has comp/gate on the same plug really rocks. wish SSL G EQ also had dynamics. would use it alot more if it did. seems kind of a pain (and waste) to use the G EQ + the E channel, just to get the benefit of the dynamics but maybe that's just me.

have to reiterate that even though i did expect the API to be good, i was still pleasantly surprised.
Old 25th September 2007
  #65
theother
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by superburtm View Post
Do you make music for a living? I do. Therefor wether you like it or not I am a PROFESSIONAL and have been for 12 yrs
I know some who make music for a living but would never call what they do professional.

And I know a couple of professional music makers out there, who produce some of the best music I heard and don't make a living.

How much money you make, or how concerned you are about it, it does not mean anything about the quality of your music.

[end of sermon]
Old 25th September 2007
  #66
theother
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
people who cling to hardware are like people who kept their horse and buggy when the model T came out
This was the biggest bullsh#t I read in a long time!

People who sell their hardware because of plugins are like people who sold their Jaguar when the cheaper Toyota came out.

It's still a stupid comparison but a lot better than yours!

I never saw anyone who has all the money in the world buying plugins in favour of hardware. If you favour plugins it's always a business/financial decision but never because of superior sonics.
Old 25th September 2007
  #67
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by theother View Post
I never saw anyone who has all the money in the world buying plugins in favour of hardware. If you favour plugins it's always a business/financial decision but never because of superior sonics.
practical issues come into play also: multiple instantiations, total reset, less patching, quick A/B, etc.

'all the money in the world' i really don't think has much to do with it. i think plugs are at the point now where they're a very a viable option. i still have 4 X 48 U racks filled with great outboard gear that i don't plan on selling, but i think the 'either/or' stance is kind of simplistic, at least it seems that way to me.
Old 25th September 2007
  #68
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marchhare's Avatar
 

The more I use the SSL and API plugs, the more I love them.
Old 25th September 2007
  #69
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Sigma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by raal View Post
practical issues come into play also: multiple instantiations, total reset, less patching, quick A/B, etc.

'all the money in the world' i really don't think has much to do with it. i think plugs are at the point now where they're a very a viable option. i still have 4 X 48 U racks filled with great outboard gear that i don't plan on selling, but i think the 'either/or' stance is kind of simplistic, at least it seems that way to me.
plug ins have come so far and they can go further..hardware will always have certain limitations

resetting a console and aux gear on a relatively light mix took 3 hrs or so..then ther was the spaghetti of tt connectors at the patch bay..add something and another thing might make an intermittent or get scratchy
no maintinence no tech's needed..no power supplies

gobs of instances available...
Old 25th September 2007
  #70
Gear Maniac
 

i think the waves marketing is much better than the actual plugs.
they pick interesting gear to model, but i think their plugs sound really muffled and grainy at different points in time.
i understand that people think it's very negative to criticize a leading company.
if their sh*t was slammin' i would give respect.
for example, someone on this forum gave love to solera by flux.
so i checked it out, and man it sounds great.

i'm not associated with either one of these companies.
Old 25th September 2007
  #71
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
plug ins have come so far and they can go further..hardware will always have certain limitations

resetting a console and aux gear on a relatively light mix took 3 hrs or so..then ther was the spaghetti of tt connectors at the patch bay..add something and another thing might make an intermittent or get scratchy
no maintinence no tech's needed..no power supplies

gobs of instances available...
for sure but there's something about seeing choice gear wth real knobs sitting all comfy in a rack... and for tracking i sure wouldn't go for Digi pres as my 1st choice.
Old 25th September 2007
  #72
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
I'd rather do stuff that uses what I'm able to LEARN from analog gear and studying it (like convolving it). Everything has to have Neve, SSL, API stickers on it- what's up with that? I took the labels off my 'Channel' plug because I got tired of that sort of thing- same sound, no more brand names.

I do an EQ (Scalpel) which uses a synthetic convolution impulse that's a refinement of what I found was happening in impulses from a Manley Massive Passive, but I don't call it a Massive DAWsive or something. It's the underlying concepts that matter. If the underlying concepts are right- and in digital that's not a given, you have to do things exactly a certain way- then the sound will be good.

Waves is a bit unusual with their WUP thing and all that, I must say. That does count as a separate issue- it does not however apply to ALL software everywhere. Some of us work things differently.
Old 25th September 2007
  #73
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1monkey1 View Post
i understand that people think it's very negative to criticize a leading company.
believe me, no one on this forum thinks it's negative in the case of waves. most people whether they like their products or not disagree with their business practises in one form or another.

back on topic:

I do have the API bundle but I've used it less than I use the SSL bundle overall.
Old 25th September 2007
  #74
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Rezz View Post
Only problem here Ronan is that you can use the API plug-in eq 50 times(Instances on a mix) , which effectively will make it worth about $10 to the one instance you could use it's hardware counterpart ! Just sayin is all heh
That post was a tongue in cheek response to Tony's comment that you could not buy anything from API for the cost of a waves API emulation bundle.
Old 25th September 2007
  #75
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by it's a Pleasure View Post
You can definitely argue that hardware sounds better, but will it make your work sound better?

Yes.
Old 25th September 2007
  #76
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RCM - Ronan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
people who cling to hardware are like people who kept their horse and buggy when the model T came out
Wow Mike, Thanks for the insult!!!!
Old 25th September 2007
  #77
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
Yes.
ok, fair enough.

to me, recalling much more than 3 or 4 pieces of outboard gear is a p.i.ta. not to mention, the precise points the photograph or recall sheet missed...it's not always going to come back perfect...

if i can't work quickly, i lose focus, and my work suffers. obviously, this is not the case for most engineers.

i'm not pointing the finger at anyone around here, but i've worked w/ a lot of engineers who are so busy getting hardons at the sound of their 6 La2s pumping each other that they lose sight of the big picture.
Old 26th September 2007
  #78
Lives for gear
 
Sigma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by theother View Post
This was the biggest bullsh#t I read in a long time!

People who sell their hardware because of plugins are like people who sold their Jaguar when the cheaper Toyota came out.


It's still a stupid comparison but a lot better than yours!

I never saw anyone who has all the money in the world buying plugins in favour of hardware. If you favour plugins it's always a business/financial decision but never because of superior sonics.
for good reason between lucas king of darkness and general britsh automobile build quality a toyota was a much better car

and we see today which automaker not just survived but is one of the top in the world and which got bought out
Old 26th September 2007
  #79
Lives for gear
 
Sigma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcm View Post
Wow Mike, Thanks for the insult!!!!
no insult intended

look i called protools ..blowtools.. for years..i just saw the light..software wil just become more and more powerful and cheap..

massenburg and the "golden ears" poo pooed PT too..now he and the others make plug ins for it

i realize it's hard to change ones bias',, it was hard for me..but i for one never want to play with, set and reset a hardware eq, compressor/gate or reverb/fx again
Old 26th September 2007
  #80
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Sigma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by raal View Post
for sure but there's something about seeing choice gear wth real knobs sitting all comfy in a rack... and for tracking i sure wouldn't go for Digi pres as my 1st choice.
for tracking i use api. mellinia, fearn, purple and A design preamps
Old 26th September 2007
  #81
theother
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
for good reason between lucas king of darkness and general britsh automobile build quality a toyota was a much better car

and we see today which automaker not just survived but is one of the top in the world and which got bought out
Well, you can keep driving in your Toyota and I stick to my Land Rover.

To say Toyota is a better car than a Jaguar, Aston Martin, Royce, Bentley, Land Rover, etc. is a bit of a stretch.

To say it's more car for your money? Maybe. But better?

And the same goes for plugins. Somehow I think you never had the real hardware, be it car, outboard gear or mixing desks.

So go back to your plugins and Toyota and keep insulting the rest of us it won't help you.

And don't tell me anything about Ford-T's. My family was one of the first Ford dealers in the country. But contrary to you, we changed from horse to car when the technology was ready and it was actually an improvement over the old tools, but what you are doing is going back from the horse to the wheelbarrow. Yes, the wheelbarrow came after the horse but it wasn't meant as a total replacement.

I'll get rid of my hardware when the time is right. But it won't be the near future.
At the moment plugins are a nice addition to hardware. And that's it.

Not to use any plugins wouldn't be to difficult for me, but not to have any hardware, a disaster. If you plugins are so great why do you not use them for tracking? (and nobody else as a matter of fact)

Plugins with no hardware is either for lazy people, or someone on a budget.

Recall? What's the problem? I have all the time in the world if this is what it takes to make a good song.

What's the bloody rush everyone is in today?

The world is full of zillions of bad sounding records. What about taking your time and do something that makes a difference for once? and if that means to do a recall that takes 2 hours so be it.

What? Your customers don't pay for it?

Too bad. That's your problem. Then you are in the wrong business. Or you are in the right business if that means making bad sounding records for the right profit.



Good luck!

Back on topic:

I used the Waves API compressor on a couple of demo-projects and it sounded really good.

I really enjoy using Waves SSL & API on projects in the early stages where I don't have a desk and outboard available.
I could also complain endlessly about Waves policy about WUP or being not iLok compatible (able to do transfers), etc.

But to be honest, I knew before I bought the bundles what's going to happen. I knew they are expensive and I knew I have to pay for WUP every year not to be in trouble. and I also knew I probably will never able to sell it.

Taking all this into account I made my decision. I'm happy with the quality of Waves plugs but they come at a price.
It really comes down to if you are willing to fork out that much or not. Nobody forces you. So stop moaning!

On the other hand I feel sorry for people who bought expensive Waves bundles before WUP and Waves won't give them any more authorisation codes for new hard drives etc. without buying WUP and iLoks. That's a bit over the top!
I mean it's the customers choice to stay on an old Waves version, but they should be able to install it.
Old 26th September 2007
  #82
Lives for gear
 
Sigma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by theother View Post
Well, you can keep driving in your Toyota and I stick to my Land Rover.

To say Toyota is a better car than a Jaguar, Aston Martin, Royce, Bentley, Land Rover, etc. is a bit of a stretch.

To say it's more car for your money? Maybe. But better?

And the same goes for plugins. Somehow I think you never had the real hardware, be it car, outboard gear or mixing desks.

So go back to your plugins and Toyota and keep insulting the rest of us it won't help you.

And don't tell me anything about Ford-T's. My family was one of the first Ford dealers in the country. But contrary to you, we changed from horse to car when the technology was ready and it was actually an improvement over the old tools, but what you are doing is going back from the horse to the wheelbarrow. Yes, the wheelbarrow came after the horse but it wasn't meant as a total replacement.

I'll get rid of my hardware when the time is right. But it won't be the near future.
At the moment plugins are a nice addition to hardware. And that's it.

Not to use any plugins wouldn't be to difficult for me, but not to have any hardware, a disaster. If you plugins are so great why do you not use them for tracking? (and nobody else as a matter of fact)

Plugins with no hardware is either for lazy people, or someone on a budget.

Recall? What's the problem? I have all the time in the world if this is what it takes to make a good song.

What's the bloody rush everyone is in today?

The world is full of zillions of bad sounding records. What about taking your time and do something that makes a difference for once? and if that means to do a recall that takes 2 hours so be it.

What? Your customers don't pay for it?

Too bad. That's your problem. Then you are in the wrong business. Or you are in the right business if that means making bad sounding records for the right profit.



Good luck!

Back on topic:

I used the Waves API compressor on a couple of demo-projects and it sounded really good.

I really enjoy using Waves SSL & API on projects in the early stages where I don't have a desk and outboard available.
I could also complain endlessly about Waves policy about WUP or being not iLok compatible (able to do transfers), etc.

But to be honest, I knew before I bought the bundles what's going to happen. I knew they are expensive and I knew I have to pay for WUP every year not to be in trouble. and I also knew I probably will never able to sell it.

Taking all this into account I made my decision. I'm happy with the quality of Waves plugs but they come at a price.
It really comes down to if you are willing to fork out that much or not. Nobody forces you. So stop moaning!

On the other hand I feel sorry for people who bought expensive Waves bundles before WUP and Waves won't give them any more authorisation codes for new hard drives etc. without buying WUP and iLoks. That's a bit over the top!
I mean it's the customers choice to stay on an old Waves version, but they should be able to install it.
the bold type #1 is a real stretch..i think we had more gear than 95% of the largest studios in the world..what with 6 large frame consoles in 3 buildings in 2 states during our heyday
we had about 2 dozen 87's alone..6 emt's etc etc

the bold type #2 ..wow you must be lucky because my label projects had deadlines

on ocassion i do use plug ins during tracking and i know many others who do too..the reason most don't do it is not the plug in but the commitment..it's not like tape days when it was better to have more top going in up front rather than on mix where you would be raisng the ratio of hiss to program by adding top to the multitrack tape outputs

well buit car and British is an oxymoron..i had a defender 90..3 stepper motors, 2 x fer cases, 3 transmissions, green melting wiring box and a class action lawsuit on "corrosion" [ya can't call aluminum oxidation rust] and LR gave me my 44k dollars back..[what i paid, interest and add ons]..[the truck had 55k but the problems were from day 1 so it was LEMON LAWED]
as most people who have owned jag, MG. LR know .. they aren't reliable transportation after 36k miles

HEY WE HAD MILK DELIVERED BY ABBOTS DARY'S HORSE AND CART INTO THE 1960's
Old 26th September 2007
  #83
Lives for gear
 
Sigma's Avatar
when i say cling to hardware i mostly mean analog desks and tape rcorders..and any aux gear that can be emulated well in a software version
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