The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Can anybody learn how to sing? Ribbon Microphones
Old 27th July 2010
  #211
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by initialsBB View Post
Didn't he?
My mistake. Interestingly, his songs have achieved far greater success as cover versions than his recordings ever did.
Old 27th July 2010
  #212
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbubba View Post
He said that when he was recording the band it was not too different from recording many bands he had recorded over the years, but when they all took the mic (especially when doing BG vocals) you KNEW you were recording THE EAGLES.
That bad, huh? But that's because it was The Eagles. What did he expect them to sound like? The Beach Boys?

I just realised that I'm sitting here arguing 'cause there's nothing on the TV again. Apologies to everyone. Time for a cup of Cocoa and bed.
Old 27th July 2010
  #213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
... The Beach Boys?
Brewer and Shipley!
Old 27th July 2010
  #214
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
Brewer and Shipley!
Oh great. I was just on my way to bed. Now I have to Google Brewer & Shipley.
Old 27th July 2010
  #215
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great View Post
lol
My opinions are subject to change at any time depending on who I'm talking to. Especially if I'm talking to myself.
Old 27th July 2010
  #216
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbubba View Post
He said that when he was recording the band it was not too different from recording many bands he had recorded over the years, but when they all took the mic (especially when doing BG vocals) you KNEW you were recording THE EAGLES.
I think you have to have something special inside you to reach that level. Not everyone has this something. Even with a lifetime of practice and determination. There are things that are just not learned.
Old 27th July 2010
  #217
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
My mistake. Interestingly, his songs have achieved far greater success as cover versions than his recordings ever did.
Interesting in that it illustrates how the public has no taste and probably proves that Dylan's versions were far superior.
Old 27th July 2010
  #218
HEEEEEEAH! HOOOEY!

I Google "Brewer and Shipley" and TEN SECONDS LATER I AM LISTENING TO "ONE TOKE OVER THE LINE"!



DAAAYUM, BOYS, THIS INTERNET IS A LITTLE PIECE OF HOG HEAVEN!!!

Old 27th July 2010
  #219
Lives for gear
 

sweet jesus
Old 27th July 2010
  #220
Lives for gear
 

Merely singing:



Real vocalizing:

Old 27th July 2010
  #221
Lives for gear
 

If singing is being able to hold a note and then change to another note, roughly on time and roughly in tune then YES.

If singing is being able to bring character, melody and emotion to a bunch of words or lyrics that can drive the listener to stand up at his desk in an open plan office and dance, or openly weep on a crowded bus then NO.
Old 27th July 2010
  #222
I cannot even begin to describe the reveries that seize and throttle me when I hear that song!

It takes me right back to the playground at junior high-- and I am arguing that this song is not from the musical Jesus Christ Superstar for the simple, obvious fact that the "railway station" would be out of place in the authentic Biblical period... and I am meeting some skepticism...
Old 27th July 2010
  #223
Jr. Gear Slut 2nd class
 
chessparov's Avatar
 

If a tree falls (crushs) a rocker alone in the forest who makes a last scream, is he a singer or a vocalistheh?

Actually this thread is pretty entertaining.

Part of the issue in discussing all this is factoring in things like artistic authenticity, storytelling, etc. Yes sometimes a Dusty Springfield or Sam Cooke rolls around, but it's rare indeed!

How about simplifying it back to something like "carrying a tune"?

My perspective is that it's more realistic to become a decent singer with a pleasant voice, then to generate "vocal magic" ala Dylan, Young, et al.

Many more of the former type than the latter...

Chris

P.S. Those who think opera is boring ought to check out Verdi or Wagner,
lots of action. Plus some of the divas are quite easy on the eyes.
Old 27th July 2010
  #224
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov View Post
Those who think opera is boring ought to check out Verdi or Wagner, lots of action. Plus some of the divas are quite easy on the eyes.


some
Old 27th July 2010
  #225
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkRB View Post
If singing is being able to hold a note and then change to another note, roughly on time and roughly in tune then YES.

If singing is being able to bring character, melody and emotion to a bunch of words or lyrics that can drive the listener to stand up at his desk in an open plan office and dance, or openly weep on a crowded bus then NO.
I'd say that's the definitive answer to the OP's question.
Old 27th July 2010
  #226
Registered User
 
Rick Sutton's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
I'd say that's the definitive answer to the OP's question.
Agreed. Thread complete!
Old 27th July 2010
  #227
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great View Post
I think you have to have something special inside you to reach that level. Not everyone has this something. Even with a lifetime of practice and determination. There are things that are just not learned.
That. THAT. THAT RIGHT THERE IS THE ABSOLUTE GREATEST MISCONCEPTION!!

The people who DO. The people who are great know that practice has everything to do with it. That's their secret because they KNOW 99% of everyone is too lazy to try it for themselves. The public thinks there's a magic elixir, a mojo gene. Yes there is talent and natural ability. But none of that means jack **** if you don't practice it or develop it.

And technique CAN come before art. One most often has to develop technical ability and a knowledge of the craft BEFORE he/she gets any inkling what he wants to do as an artist. You have to KNOW before you can DO. Remember "technique" is not merely physical dexterity, but also knowledge of how to make your instrument work to make it do what you need it to do.

Most artists are painfully aware of their own limitations and wish they could breakthrough them.

For the listener ART supersedes technique and should, most often be invisible. But to the artist technique is ever present, whether that means he has to warm up his voice, sing a lot to keep in shape, drink lemon and honey concoctions or whatever.
Old 27th July 2010
  #228
Lives for gear
 
Bristol_Jonesey's Avatar
A firend of mine, bless him, grew up with me listening to the same bands - Rush, ELP, Tull, Yes etc, and he can't even hum along to a song, let alone sing it.

When he does try, it's like an out of tune Tibetan Monk.

He is completely tone deaf, so the answer as far as I'm concerned is a resounding NO!
Old 27th July 2010
  #229
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
I think dbbubba's point is that Opera is such a stylised and un-natural way of singing that it requires years and years of dedicated practice to learn how to do it properly.
As the 20th century rolled on opera became a stylised and unnatural way of singing due to a number of factors reaching critical mass. That's why today's opera and its current adherents are all a misguided joke. There was a time when opera was all about singing naturally. Sadly people just don't even know about that any more because of all the huffing and puffing of these latter day barrel-chested bufoons. It's something of a tragedy actually that people associate this sound as being opera. It's like if everyone thought that the "grunge voice" was the authentic sound of rock. But nothing could be further from the truth of what opera is supposed to be.
Old 27th July 2010
  #230
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
And technique CAN come before art. One most often has to develop technical ability and a knowledge of the craft BEFORE he/she gets any inkling what he wants to do as an artist. You have to KNOW before you can DO.
OK

Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
Remember "technique" is not merely physical dexterity, but also knowledge of how to make your instrument work to make it do what you need it to do.
But then how do you know what you need it to do?
Old 27th July 2010
  #231
Gear Addict
 
InTheBox's Avatar
The vocal technique can be learnt, and with that you can get quite far.
Then there is the question: What do you want to bring to the world... why should we listen to you? IOW: You have to make it an interesting experience for us, so interpretation/expresseion skills are also needed.

There are singers who do this by nature and easily, and then there are people like you and me who have to work a little harder.

If you want to go as far as you can, Cathrine Sadolin can help you.
She is in Denmark, but makes trips all over the world.

I can help you with contact info if you would like

cheers

-Box
Old 27th July 2010
  #232
Lives for gear
 
Absolute's Avatar
 

Its not about practice, vocal lessons or anything technical...its about one simple thing

TONE

Thats all. YOu can have all the range in the world but if you dont have tone you wont fit on a track. Heck..I have guitars that have 25 frets---who cares if the tone stinks.

People who want to sing spend so much time trying to hold notes longer and improving range and absolutely NO time improving their tone.

But maybe thats for the best because your born with Tone. Its a physical phenomenon. Its physics..its math...it cant be changed or taught.

As soon as someone steps up to the mic you can hear it. The beauty. Like an angel. Practice all you want..if you dont have that..try Rap, death metal, or some other genre that doesnt require tone.

Thats the plain truth. If when you sing..someone hasnt told you your voice is beautiful..there is no point in trying to improve breathing, range, or endurance.
Old 27th July 2010
  #233
Gear Addict
 
InTheBox's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute View Post
Its not about practice, vocal lessons or anything technical...its about one simple thing

TONE

Thats all. YOu can have all the range in the world but if you dont have tone you wont fit on a track. Heck..I have guitars that have 25 frets---who cares if the tone stinks.

People who want to sing spend so much time trying to hold notes longer and improving range and absolutely NO time improving their tone.

But maybe thats for the best because your born with Tone. Its a physical phenomenon. Its physics..its math...it cant be changed or taught.

As soon as someone steps up to the mic you can hear it. The beauty. Like an angel. Practice all you want..if you dont have that..try Rap, death metal, or some other genre that doesnt require tone.

Thats the plain truth. If when you sing..someone hasnt told you your voice is beautiful..there is no point in trying to improve breathing, range, or endurance.

I think you are being to simplistic about it.

There are a lot of grayzones in this. When I use the technique I have learnt, and find a song that is right for me, people come to me and complement me on my voice, say I have talent and all that...
I was a mediocre singer who learnt to do better. It works.

Would I have liked to be the type of singer who never had to worry about these things? Oh yes, but this works for me and the audience.

Natural born singers may loose their 'technique' over a period of time, and if they don't consult a vocal coach, they can kiss their career goodbye.

Not all superstars are good singers.

Just saying

-Box
Old 27th July 2010
  #234
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute View Post
Its not about practice, vocal lessons or anything technical...its about one simple thing

TONE

Thats all. YOu can have all the range in the world but if you dont have tone you wont fit on a track. Heck..I have guitars that have 25 frets---who cares if the tone stinks.

People who want to sing spend so much time trying to hold notes longer and improving range and absolutely NO time improving their tone.

But maybe thats for the best because your born with Tone. Its a physical phenomenon. Its physics..its math...it cant be changed or taught.

As soon as someone steps up to the mic you can hear it. The beauty. Like an angel. Practice all you want..if you dont have that..try Rap, death metal, or some other genre that doesnt require tone.

Thats the plain truth. If when you sing..someone hasnt told you your voice is beautiful..there is no point in trying to improve breathing, range, or endurance.
This while true to some degree is a whole lot less true than most people think. Facial posture, mouth posture and voice placement, both in the throat and in the resonators in the head (all of which can be controlled with practice) can seriously, radically, change tone.
Old 27th July 2010
  #235
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
Tone. Yes there definitely is body type, air capacity, lung size, mouth shape, but how in the hell do you think people gain their tone otherwise? Do you think Mick Jagger was born sounding like a weak english Muddy Waters wannabe? Do you think Steve Winwood was born sounding like an american black singer? Do you think Placido Domingo was born sounding like an operatic singer?

People develop their TONE. It's part of their technique. So many English singers used to try to sound american or even black american in tone and inflection. You think Joe Cocker sounded like that with out working it out? You think those screamo dudes just naturally sound like that? Amy Winehouse? Christina Aguilera? Chaka Khan? James Brown?

Any musical artist works to develop their tone. They take what they got and they work it to make it work. Robert Plant always admired Lou Rawls and Howlin' Wolf. He doesn't sound ANYTHING LIKE those guys to me. But he took what he had and made it work.
Old 27th July 2010
  #236
Lives for gear
 

This thread has become ridiculous.
Old 27th July 2010
  #237
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
Yes. Luckily I haven't read all of it!

What people fail to realize, and I think this comes from people who are NOT musical artists, with a small or a large A, be they engineers or audience, music appreciators, is that no one has a clue what work is entailed in doing what these guys do. They may not sit down and practice scales or do exercises or take lessons, but believe me 99% of great singers have worked very hard at their craft to develop their art. Very, very few open their mouths for the first time and genius emits. Even Dylan worked and worked and worked to do his Gutherie thing and then some. He wasn't born sounding like a Woody Gutherie impersonator.
Old 27th July 2010
  #238
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
Yes. Luckily I haven't read all of it!

What people fail to realize, and I think this comes from people who are NOT musical artists, with a small or a large A, be they engineers or audience, music appreciators, is that no one has a clue what work is entailed in doing what these guys do. They may not sit down and practice scales or do exercises or take lessons, but believe me 99% of great singers have worked very hard at their craft to develop their art. Very, very few open their mouths for the first time and genius emits. Even Dylan worked and worked and worked to do his Gutherie thing and then some. He wasn't born sounding like a Woody Gutherie impersonator.
That AND the talent to get you to the top. MOST people could never do this no matter how hard they work at it.
Old 27th July 2010
  #239
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbubba View Post
This thread has become ridiculous.
How so?
Old 27th July 2010
  #240
Registered User
 
Rick Sutton's Avatar
 

When does the fat lady sing?
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Godzillarama / Work In Progress / Advice Requested / Show and Tell / Artist Showcase / Mix-Offs
3
halfguard / Rap + Hip Hop engineering and production
25
dillweed / The Moan Zone
17
eligit / So much gear, so little time
231
petsematary / Work In Progress / Advice Requested / Show and Tell / Artist Showcase / Mix-Offs
7

Forum Jump
Forum Jump