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The must of Pro Tools skills?
Old 25th July 2007
  #31
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swisha31's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPZ View Post
PT click isn't accurate. Print it one time and you'll see. If you can, waste an audio track and build your own click out of whatever sound sources you or the client prefers and then drop it in on to the grid.
I think that might be a latency problem when you are trying to print the actual click.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
IMHO I think you should consider two things:

Bonus: If you're a killer engineer (like top top sounding) and can do your stuff on Logic or 2" instead... then I think anyone with brains would go to you regardless of platform. If for some reason Steve Albini didn't know how to use PT, but was a master on 2"... I'd hire him anyways. A good engineer is a good engineer.
If you are that good of an engineer, it shouldn't matter what software you are using no matter of its ableton, cakewalk, whatever. You should be able to achieve the same results if you are THAT good.
Old 25th July 2007
  #32
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPZ View Post
PT click isn't accurate. Print it one time and you'll see. If you can, waste an audio track and build your own click out of whatever sound sources you or the client prefers and then drop it in on to the grid.
I'm not sure which click you are using, but the one I have used all day long in PT 7.3.1 is sample accurate.
If you take the output (any buss) of the click and print it to an audio track.
Then use tab to transient in Pro Tools.

Put the cursor at the top of the audio click track and then start tabbing.
My clicks landed exactly on every quarter note.

And swisha, in Pro Tools, look under the menu Track.
The last item in the menu should be: Create Click Track
Or in preferences under the menu MIDI.
Check mark, Automatically Create Click Track in New Sessions.
Old 25th July 2007
  #33
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FossilTooth's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
I'm not sure which click you are using, but the one I have used all day long in PT 7.3.1 is sample accurate.
If you take the output (any buss) of the click and print it to an audio track.
Then use tab to transient in Pro Tools.

Put the cursor at the top of the audio click track and then start tabbing.
My clicks landed exactly on every quarter note.
Ditto

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd;1398313
And swisha, in Pro Tools, look under the menu [B
Track[/b].
The last item in the menu should be: Create Click Track
Or in preferences under the menu MIDI.
Check mark, Automatically Create Click Track in New Sessions.
Dammit. Everytime I start to think I'm a total ProTools wiz, I find a half-dozen things I didn't know. Luckily my clients still think I'm a genius (little do they know.....)

I had no idea there was a preference to: " Automatically Create Click Track in New Sessions"

Thanks. Is this new in 7, or do I have no excuse? I remember my first month in 7. I kept saying to myself "Godamn, more logical menu layout. How am I supposed to find anything now?!?" I would have been so annoyed if it wasn't for the quick keys ingrained in my brain.

Habits can be a bitch. They invite us to fight progress.
Old 25th July 2007
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPZ View Post
PT click isn't accurate. Print it one time and you'll see. If you can, waste an audio track and build your own click out of whatever sound sources you or the client prefers and then drop it in on to the grid.
im gonna check this. Better be telling the truth boy!!heh
Old 25th July 2007
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klotzi View Post
I study "Electrical / Audio Engineering". It's mostly about the technical side (oh man so much digital signal processing and stuff ) and less about recording and mixing. We have that also but as a minor subject and very low level (at least now). IMO you can learn everything by doing and experience

I would say it's electrical engineering but specialized in audio...so you will not necessarily work with music (recordings or whatever) but can work in every electrical engineering field which has to do with audio and acoustics.
So in reference to narcoman again... If I'm not able to find a job in the music/recording industry I have something to come back which has to do with my passion.
Again and again and again, I find myself (like King Lear) raging against the storm of young people continuing to want to become audio engineers and - or something similar. Narco does the same.

Both Narco and myself, studied something else. He did maths, I did electrical engineering (though not to graduate level) and then economics. Neither of us spent a lifetime working in our specialities, but it did give us the ability to be brave and venture out where we otherwise would not have dared to go.

The problem for you and everybody else is the grind of everyday life. One day you will build a nest and in there will be baby chicks with their mouths wide open, shouting "Feed me! Feed me!"

Rent, mortgage, clothing and food will all need to be found.

Balance that against the absolute fact that the studio scene is on its knees. Austria is a small country with only 2m more in population than Scotland. There are just a handful of proper studios in both and the only employment they provide is the occasional free-lance gig.

Last week, yet another top studio in the UK folded. This is now happening at an alarming rate. Almost weekly now. Every studio has been looking long and hard at other sources of turnover and (hopefully) profit.

Here's a prediction from me - every conventional commercial music studio in Europe that has significant overheads will fold over the next ten years. That means every one in rented accommodation or with a mortgage (Hypotheke in German) will not be able to keep its nose above the rising waters.

If you study electronics to graduate level or beyond, you can still remain within the industry. Knowing how to fiddle with ProTools is a skill that (as someone has already pointed out) is fairly easily acquired. That means that you have a skill in a job market that is not much of a comparative advantage.

But knowing how to build something as simple as a valve compressor is a very rare skill. There can be just a few dozen components in such a box, and yet a good all-valve compressor can command massive prices, for the very simple reason that building such a beast is a lost skill for the mainstream engineer. Even something as extremely simple as a passive volume control is a closed book to many. A large number of people on this forum do not seem to even know how to solder, or which pin does what on an XLR!

I happen to know dozens and dozens of people who call themselves sound engineers. I have not counted them up, but over the years it must run to many hundreds. In the good-old, bad-old days, the rule was that they had a technical education and then entered the job market as tape ops in a studio or as apprentices in a broadcaster. But that was a long, long time ago. Those days are sadly over.

Today, there are more courses in audio engineering than you could shake a stick at. They range from the many, many completely useless and utterly dishonest private 'schools' that fool the gullible into parting with cash in large amounts, through to the seven-year German Tonmeister course.

All the audio engineers under the age of 30 that I have met in the past ten years that have a genuine career (i.e. are able to pay their pay their own way, get a mortgage and are not living with Mummy and Daddy) and are actually working full-time as audio engineers and not as supermarket trolley-pushers, with the occasional gig at the weekend have attended one of three types of education.

1. Deutsche Tonmeister
2. Surrey (UK university) Tonmeister
3. Gestalter fuer Bild und Ton (German apprenticeship)

As you are already in the area, I would opt for the third as it does not take for ever to achieve and they are actively sought after by employers.

I am sure that I shall now receive many messages from all sorts of people, pointing out that they attended SAE, Full-Sail, or the Wysuckie College for the Totally Dumb and have thriving careers. And I know that there must be plenty of them out there.

It's just that I have never met them!
Old 25th July 2007
  #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Ruston View Post
If I hire an assistant, I need them to be able to do all the basic things 'fluidly'. I don't need them to be able to remember where every last setting is located in the preferences (I don't know!), but I need them to be able to handle the PT rig without me having to babysit.

What I REALLY want is for them to be able to do any autotuning and editing of multitrack drums. The best assistant is the one who, while you are out having lunch, fixes the drum timing for you!

I have an assistant who I use from time to time who's great with PT, and he works with a number of other producers too...so when one of us finds a cool new way of doing things, this guy picks it up and spreads it around!

J
That's sort of along the lines I'm thinking.

I can teach someone anything they need to know about how to operate ProTools for assitant/tape op leve in about 15 minutes, but the button pressing is really all sunperfical.

If you want to be great at ProTools, you need to be a great musician. The most diffiecul stuff is usually drums and vocals, so take some drum and singing lessons.

I am rarely on a grid and am often asked to do all sorts of "impossible" edits, and I always figure out a way to do it, but it never has anythign to do with a shortcut or ProTools feature it always has to do with an understanding of music.


For instance, without a click, if you've got a big three way flam between drums, bass and guitar, who do you use as a reference? There's natural push pull before and after, so you can't define who's right. Argubaly the answer is make the edits based on whatever sounds best, but that's a lot of experimenting.

As a musician, I can tell you that if this is happening aroudn bar 5 or 6 of an 8 bar phrase, that guitar player is probably ahead. Use the drums as a reference.

If the problem is at bar 9 after a big drum fill, use the bass player as a reference because the drummer rushed the fill.

I can also tell you that a "late" kick drum hit is usually not late, but correct after a rushed snare hit.

If you saw me clean up a track in ProTools, you'd be impressed with my "ProTools skills" and how fast it happened, but the speed is from musical knowledge, not software knowledge.

In depth knowledge of ProTools with out a background as a musician, is like learning to be a race car driver without ever having seen a street or traffic in your life. You may be a master a driving in circles, but what are you going to to when you see your first stop sign, or traffic light, or on coming traffic or speed limits? And more importnatly do you have a place to drive to and do you know the directions or are you going to get lost and fall back onto what you know and drive in circles?

The tecnincal and software part is unbeleiveably easy, it's the rest that you have ot develop.
Old 25th July 2007
  #37
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Klotzi's Avatar
 

Hi The Byre,
I'm wondering if you read my posts... because all that you told me is in my mind and nothing new to me. If you read my posts you will see this...although I haven't been this specific to keep the posts short and keep at the topic (I know that my question has to do with what you wrote)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Byre View Post
Again and again and again, I find myself (like King Lear) raging against the storm of young people continuing to want to become audio engineers and - or something similar. Narco does the same.
Sorry, but this sounds like you condescend everybody who wants to have a foot in the door.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Byre View Post
Both Narco and myself, studied something else. He did maths, I did electrical engineering (though not to graduate level) and then economics. Neither of us spent a lifetime working in our specialities, but it did give us the ability to be brave and venture out where we otherwise would not have dared to go.
Hmmm...nice for you two. That was also my idea when I started this study. Again it's "Elektrotechnik / Toningenieur" (Master Degree). And everybody told us if we want to record and mix here, we are wrong! It's about the development...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Byre View Post
Austria is a small country with only 2m more in population than Scotland. There are just a handful of proper studios in both and the only employment they provide is the occasional free-lance gig.
Just to mention, originally I'm from germany having connections to three Recording Studios in my hometown munich one Mastering Studio in Duesseldorf and being a little freelancer in Graz, Austria...For me it doesn't matter what country or continent my way will bring me
I'm at the beginning but for me I it's good to know having allready now some connections.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Byre View Post
Last week, yet another top studio in the UK folded. This is now happening at an alarming rate. Almost weekly now. Every studio has been looking long and hard at other sources of turnover and (hopefully) profit.

Here's a prediction from me - every conventional commercial music studio in Europe that has significant overheads will fold over the next ten years. That means every one in rented accommodation or with a mortgage (Hypotheke in German) will not be able to keep its nose above the rising waters.
Nothing new to me...


So far, I have to do some work... but I'll be back
Old 25th July 2007
  #38
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Klotzi's Avatar
 

I'm back...

Hey The Byre. Now I will go on...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Byre View Post
...Knowing how to fiddle with ProTools is a skill that (as someone has already pointed out) is fairly easily acquired. That means that you have a skill in a job market that is not much of a comparative advantage.
You got me wrong, perhaps I couched myself wrong... I don't see it as a advantage compared to somebody else. I'm asking if you guys out here think it's necessary in our days or sooner in the future to have Pro Tools skills (hopefully I didn't get you wrong heh )

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Byre View Post
But knowing how to build something as simple as a valve compressor is a very rare skill. There can be just a few dozen components in such a box, and yet a good all-valve compressor can command massive prices, for the very simple reason that building such a beast is a lost skill for the mainstream engineer. Even something as extremely simple as a passive volume control is a closed book to many. A large number of people on this forum do not seem to even know how to solder, or which pin does what on an XLR!
I agree with you, but don't you think the future is about digital signal processing...
So IMO it doesn't make much sense to be a great electrical engineer because there is a much bigger market for the digital domain (as far as I know the founders of Sonalksis are alumni Neve employees). Don't get me wrong. i think there will ever be the need of great electrical engineers and an analogue world but there is not such a big future and market for it (like big recording studios)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Byre View Post
Today, there are more courses in audio engineering than you could shake a stick at. They range from the many, many completely useless and utterly dishonest private 'schools' that fool the gullible into parting with cash in large amounts, through to the seven-year German Tonmeister course.

All the audio engineers under the age of 30 that I have met in the past ten years that have a genuine career (i.e. are able to pay their pay their own way, get a mortgage and are not living with Mummy and Daddy) and are actually working full-time as audio engineers and not as supermarket trolley-pushers, with the occasional gig at the weekend have attended one of three types of education.

1. Deutsche Tonmeister
2. Surrey (UK university) Tonmeister
3. Gestalter fuer Bild und Ton (German apprenticeship)

As you are already in the area, I would opt for the third as it does not take for ever to achieve and they are actively sought after by employers.

I am sure that I shall now receive many messages from all sorts of people, pointing out that they attended SAE, Full-Sail, or the Wysuckie College for the Totally Dumb and have thriving careers. And I know that there must be plenty of them out there.

It's just that I have never met them!
You know what... it take me nearly a year to find the right way for me... I know them all (Tonmeister - in all his specific ways, SAE - and all the other highly expensive/less profit privat schools). AGAIN, you didn't tell me anything new (but you couldn't knew )
But I dfegad "Mediengestalter Bild und Ton"
These guys know very less about the work we are discussing here, trust me I met some of them and they know realy a bit more then myself before my study... and I was shocked what they don't know. Sorry if I dissed somebody but this education isn't nearly what I was looking for.

I agree with your "Tonmeister" point of view...but do you know the level of the entrance examination musically? I bet half of the audio engineers in the buisness wouldn't pass it (I only know about the german system and it's damn hard).

I had also to do an entrance examination in Austria (musical and technical) but less hard because the study is more about the technical side and less about the "artistic" side (as I mentioned in my posts before).

BTW I had a quick look at your homepage I hadn't the time for your test but I will do it and let you know the result...

Nice to see that somebody cares what's going on. So please don't get me wrong, I did't want to start arguing with you. The point is I hear these things so often...but as I said I see the point and understand all of it

Old 25th July 2007
  #39
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swisha31's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post

And swisha, in Pro Tools, look under the menu Track.
The last item in the menu should be: Create Click Track
Or in preferences under the menu MIDI.
Check mark, Automatically Create Click Track in New Sessions.

Ay Tony I went and looked and its not in my menu. I have to go in and add thee click plugin to a bus or midi track for the click to work. Maybe it's because i'm running LE or maybe its because you are running the newest version 7.3.1
Old 25th July 2007
  #40
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Sorry if I banged on about things you are perfectly well aware of! Obviously you have your beans all in a row! In read these posts and I think "Oh God! There's another kid attending the 'Wysuckie Colledge for the Totally Dumb' - I'd better write and tell him what's going on!"

I meantioned Gestalter fuer Bild u. Ton simply because friends had told me that they get jobs and the system works well. I have never worked with a Gestalter fuer etc. (Herr Gott, nochmal, es muss doch eine einfachere Name geben, ich kann nicht jedes Mal eine halbe Strofe hinschreiben!) so I can't really judge if they are up to snuff or not.

I believe that for the educated (i.e. have done what you are doing right now) the job market in Germany is not so bad as it is here and in the US. That is largely because the TV production market and the DVD concert video markets are buzzing. In the UK, the studios and the lables have not realised the full potential of the DVD and the hi-def DVD in particular. I was talking to an old friend of mine who runs a mobile in the Ruhrpot and he says that he is busy like never before.

As for the digital v. analogue - God knows! I just mentioned the tube-valve comp thing as an example of something fairly simple that commands high prices, simply because of the structure of the market. I could have mentioned very low-noise mic pres or something simple like a timer switch.

As for your original question, the answer is yes. You need to know ProTools AND Logic and a few other bits and pieces as well. In a couple of years, all that might change. Every DAW-maker wants to oust ProTools from their perch and I know that Soundscape and Logic are working hard at just that.
Old 25th July 2007
  #41
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Klotzi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Byre View Post
Sorry if I banged on about things you are perfectly well aware of! Obviously you have your beans all in a row! In read these posts and I think "Oh God! There's another kid attending the 'Wysuckie Colledge for the Totally Dumb' - I'd better write and tell him what's going on!"
No problem. It's just annoying to me hearing the same every few months. Although I also met these guys. Holy sh**t, they think after the SAE or something they are the new MEGA-HIT-ENGINEER. But good to know somebody cares

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Byre View Post
...Gestalter fuer etc. (Herr Gott, nochmal, es muss doch eine einfachere Name geben, ich kann nicht jedes Mal eine halbe Strofe hinschreiben!)...
hehhehhehhehhehheh
BTW are you german?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Byre View Post
As for your original question, the answer is yes. You need to know ProTools AND Logic and a few other bits and pieces as well. In a couple of years, all that might change. Every DAW-maker wants to oust ProTools from their perch and I know that Soundscape and Logic are working hard at just that.
Thank you very much. The thing is I thought this by myself, but wanted some opinions, because Pro Tools would cost me money (I'm a poor student ) which I could spend on mics, preamps or whatever you can't get enough of, because I have a DAW. So it's hard for me to do this step right now. But at our University we haven't got Pro Tools (they work on Samplitude - also very nice programm), so I think within the next year I expand my DAW.
The good thing is my housmate (same study as I) works on Nuendo...
Old 25th July 2007
  #42
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Don S's Avatar
 

"Knowing Protools is like knowing how to drive" as one of my buddies puts it!
Old 25th July 2007
  #43
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Jazzpunk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klotzi View Post
Thank you very much. The thing is I thought this by myself, but wanted some opinions, because Pro Tools would cost me money (I'm a poor student )
Do some research in your own market. Pro Tools has been an essential part of my workflow but what is true for L.A. may not be true for your area.

Start calling local studios that you think you may have a shot at working at one day. Find out if the majority are tracking with Pro Tools and you will have your answer!

If you plan on getting hired by someone else than you need to know the platform they are running...period.
Old 25th July 2007
  #44
Lives for gear
I hate to dissapoint you, but I am totally Scottish. I leant German by drinking vast quantities of Grafenwalder Pils from Lidl and listening to Rammstein (recorded by friend mentioned earlier) at massive volume and banging my head against the wall until my head is covered in blood and the wall has a hole in it.

I have been doing this for many years now. I think it's working! It is a traditional method that we use in Scotland to learn other languages. My wife now speaks Gaelic using this method, but is completely smashed to bits.

So far I have learnt the verbs Ich Will, Du Hasst, Du bist (was Du isst), nouns such as Mutter, Sonne, Reise, Morgenstern and Mein Teil and now even whole phrases such as Du riechst so gut and Asche zu Asche.

A step up from Die Aerzte, don't you think?

Next week Heino - Sag' 'Freund' zu mir!

(Schwarzbraun ist die Hazelnuss, schwarzbraun bin auch ich, schwarzbraun muss mein Maedel sein, ganz genau wie ich!)

Then I shall kill myself!
Old 25th July 2007
  #45
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swisha31's Avatar
Turned into a nice German language educational thread. i'm up for it although the only thing i know is danke, guttentag, and..............Bayern Munich running through the Bundesliga this year
Old 25th July 2007
  #46
Gear Nut
 

I don't think that a young engineer should focus too much on perfection in one tool. What you need to know is the basics these systems draw upon. In the end they are all computers. Non DAW has re-invented the wheel. If you have good audio engineering skills, and you are good in operating computers you'll be productive on any platform within a short period.

You can see opportunities for "ProTools" and "Logic" operators, manily in LA, NY, London. So, there is definetly a market. (Even if I wonder what xx-Operator should serve as a job description unless you know hwta the facility is in...)

The real chances to build a career upon starting as a "keyboard ape" are limited nowadays. You potential bosses would have to tell you that they have absolutely no idea if they will be in business within five years, if you had the chance of asking them (don't do that, of course when you are in an interview...) and they were to giving an honest answer.
The business has become shaky lately, and I wonder if it will ever recover. So, career ideas that worked fine even 10-15years ago are no longer valid, IMO.

Good basic education will help you everywhere. Get your skills on whatever platform you like.

Cheers from Vienna,

Sebastian
Old 25th July 2007
  #47
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swisha31's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sequoia Berlin View Post
I don't think that a young engineer should focus too much on perfection in one tool. What you need to know is the basics these systems draw upon. In the end they are all computers. Non DAW has re-invented the wheel. If you have good audio engineering skills, and you are good in operating computers you'll be productive on any platform within a short period.

You can see opportunities for "ProTools" and "Logic" operators, manily in LA, NY, London. So, there is definetly a market. (Even if I wonder what xx-Operator should serve as a job description unless you know hwta the facility is in...)

The real chances to build a career upon starting as a "keyboard ape" are limited nowadays. You potential bosses would have to tell you that they have absolutely no idea if they will be in business within five years, if you had the chance of asking them (don't do that, of course when you are in an interview...) and they were to giving an honest answer.
The business has become shaky lately, and I wonder if it will ever recover. So, career ideas that worked fine even 10-15years ago are no longer valid, IMO.

Good basic education will help you everywhere. Get your skills on whatever platform you like.

Cheers from Vienna,

Sebastian
i dont know man i think the business will recover. right now there are a hell of a lot of people that think they can learn mixing in a couple months. kind of a quick fix thing so they can make their music sound as professional as possible. It's not until they have wasted money on equipment until they figure out that it takes a long time and a lot of experience to actually be very good at mixing and it's then when people will realize that they need to get their ass to the big boys that know what they are doing, even if it is somebody that is ITB but has a high-end setup. 15 years ago when I wasnt even in the 5th grade my dad had a little setup at our house but it was damn near crazy for somebody to spend 400k on their own setup. You would buy equipment but it was for pre-production and you still took it to the bigger studios. Now it's commonplace to spend thousands of dollars on equipment and it's all to avoid going to the studios because people figure that they can do it themselves. And some can, there is one that I look up to because he does it all ITB and makes great sounding music. Like I said though there will be a time when people will realize that the smart thing to do is take your stuff to people that know what they are doing instead of spending thousands of dollars and hours not knowing what you are doing. IMO you come out better saving more money and saving more time if you are really serious about your music and you will get the sound you are looking for. I do what I do because there is NOBODY here.
Old 25th July 2007
  #48
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Klotzi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by swisha31 View Post
i dont know man i think the business will recover. right now there are a hell of a lot of people that think they can learn mixing in a couple months. kind of a quick fix thing so they can make their music sound as professional as possible. It's not until they have wasted money on equipment until they figure out that it takes a long time and a lot of experience to actually be very good at mixing and it's then when people will realize that they need to get their ass to the big boys that know what they are doing, even if it is somebody that is ITB but has a high-end setup. 15 years ago when I wasnt even in the 5th grade my dad had a little setup at our house but it was damn near crazy for somebody to spend 400k on their own setup. You would buy equipment but it was for pre-production and you still took it to the bigger studios. Now it's commonplace to spend thousands of dollars on equipment and it's all to avoid going to the studios because people figure that they can do it themselves. And some can, there is one that I look up to because he does it all ITB and makes great sounding music. Like I said though there will be a time when people will realize that the smart thing to do is take your stuff to people that know what they are doing instead of spending thousands of dollars and hours not knowing what you are doing. IMO you come out better saving more money and saving more time if you are really serious about your music and you will get the sound you are looking for. I do what I do because there is NOBODY here.
Hopefully you will be right

I met a muscian in Graz which I worked for a few times who has his own homerecording studio...when I saw his equipment I got a bit jealous. On the other hand I was thinking: Man, this guy has all this stuff and doesn't know how to use it!!! Why did he buy it! He could save this money, pay me more and I could buy this knowing better how to handle it. Or he should buy a new guitar or amp. He is a musician no engineer...

(@ swisha31: Yes, FC Bayern will rule the Bundesliga, UEFA Cup and next year CL heh)
Old 26th July 2007
  #49
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swisha31's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klotzi View Post
Hopefully you will be right

I met a muscian in Graz which I worked for a few times who has his own homerecording studio...when I saw his equipment I got a bit jealous. On the other hand I was thinking: Man, this guy has all this stuff and doesn't know how to use it!!! Why did he buy it! He could save this money, pay me more and I could buy this knowing better how to handle it. Or he should buy a new guitar or amp. He is a musician no engineer...

(@ swisha31: Yes, FC Bayern will rule the Bundesliga, UEFA Cup and next year CL heh)

Yeah man some musicians need to stay musicians and let the technologically advanced handle the engineering. it's really a waste of money but oh well. it's just helping the manufacturers in the end of the day when the studios need the help. Just what i think though. If i were to get signed today, I would do a lot of pre-production ITB but I would definitely have no problem going to an engineer that knows what he is doing and has the experience because I'm a sound quality freak. I have my favorites but I would prefer somebody that takes money up front and no points off the backendheh I have no doubt that people will start going back to studios but record sales dropping, studio revenue dropping, increase in gas prices every 3 damn seconds, raised taxes for working class(rich are still richer), unemployment still low, $2 billion per week spent on the war...........no coincidence if you ask me.

(@Klotzi Bundesliga yeah, Uefa cup maybe, but as long as that guy on my avatar is playing for Barcelona, Bayern will have to go thru him)
Old 26th July 2007
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricey View Post
i use Logic and never need to look at PT for my stuff - but i learned PT so that i don't have to explain myself to clients that don't understand. Avid/Digidesign's huge market share is based on a lot of fear-factor promotion and aggressive placement in audio schools. whatever - it works great like anything else if you know how to use it.
it's definitely important to know PT and to have a copy. and Tibbon is right on about the learning curve, so why not? not having it is kind of like turning down a lot of work and some people are into that too! most projects i get as a mixer come to me in PT. fine: open, export, import to Logic and get to work thumbsup
i'm speaking as a composer/engineer, but in your case it's even more crucial i would think...

how do YOU export from PT...

OMF ??

or real time bounce of individual tracks...

I can't wait for PT to get there **** together and have an offline bounce so I can get a project out of there as quick as possible.
Old 26th July 2007
  #51
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swisha31's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurubuzz View Post
how do YOU export from PT...

OMF ??

or real time bounce of individual tracks...

I can't wait for PT to get there **** together and have an offline bounce so I can get a project out of there as quick as possible.
For OMF you have to have digitranslator and if you don't have that then you wont be able to export OMF. I think it's pretty lame considering that most, if not all other sequence software export OMF without the need it to be an addon.
Old 26th July 2007
  #52
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A27Hull's Avatar
 

I appreciated post #35 Byre,

I did the four year audio school in my area... and when you leave, you're on your own, to make whatever kind of life you can doing what you supposedly trained for.

I'll be honest...I don't know half jack about what a lot of you folks here know as second nature.

I record who I can, do live stuff as I can, but there is no stable work for us noobs having yet to be proven.

Recently I started a tech school program in electronics. Freelance engineering is a hard place for climbing at the lower rungs...and my gearlust demands that I have a stable form of employment heh

-----

back on topic,

The reverse has happened to me. I learned PT as my first DAW in school, but I'm still discovering things I don't know.

Recently I was blessed with an opportunity to assist a respected producer and engineer in my area, but he uses Nuendo.

Go figure.

So, I agree that knowing how to operate ONE daw extremely well may not be as beneficial as knowing the basic principles that all DAWs follow. Different DAWs will have different ways of doing the same things; knowing those similar things, should help when learning new DAWs.

PT has a lot of functions that carry over to other systems. Minor differences aside, I've been able to carry over much of what I know of PT to Nuendo. Point, is, if you learn a good bit about protools, its likely, you'll pick up the WHY as you're picking up the HOW.

---
to the original post

Klotzi, you know Logic, and the principles behind DAWS,

I think you should have no problem with PT, other than its apparent limits
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