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predictions for how quickly 96k will become a pro music standard
Old 2nd November 2002
  #1
predictions for how quickly 96k will become a pro music standard

I am v keen to get rocking with 96k multitracking. I am using it for mixes already.

Thoughts?
Old 2nd November 2002
  #2
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Charles Dye's Avatar
 

I think two to three years. I've already tracked drums, bass + gtrs and it sounds pretty good to me. I do hate to forfeit the DSP though.
Old 2nd November 2002
  #3
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e-cue's Avatar
 

When the plug in guys catch up...
Old 4th November 2002
  #4
Jax
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This is extremely obvious, but when 96k becomes standard, many of those using PTHD systems that were chugging away comfortably at 48 and 44.1 will start to bitch and moan about the 'sudden' lack of horsepower. Just watch the DUC. Consequently, process cards will start selling like hotcakes. I give it two years.
Old 4th November 2002
  #5
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Charles Dye
I think two to three years. I've already tracked drums, bass + gtrs and it sounds pretty good to me. I do hate to forfeit the DSP though.
I agree ....

while at it ... what do you think will be the future standard ? DVD-A or SACD.

My rec company sources are divided. Some place their bets on SACD .... others say it will be DVD-A.



and yea .... tell me about the DSP ... Jeez charles, I only have a HD4. Needless to say that I'm very picky at what I record at 96k. For now that is stuff with lots of accoustic guitars for example and music that doesn't end up being squeesed the life out of it like dance etc etc.
Old 5th November 2002
  #6
Jax
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by C.Lambrechts

while at it ... what do you think will be the future standard ? DVD-A or SACD.


Looks like your askng Charles, but I thought I'd offer my thoughts as well.

I would prefer SACD, but I think DVD-A will win out. I think people will associate DVD-A with DVD more than CD to SACD, simply because there are far more DVD players out there than SACD. People are conditioned to think of DVD as the next format for everything.
Old 5th November 2002
  #7
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jax
Quote:
Originally posted by C.Lambrechts

while at it ... what do you think will be the future standard ? DVD-A or SACD.


Looks like your askng Charles, but I thought I'd offer my thoughts as well.

I would prefer SACD, but I think DVD-A will win out. I think people will associate DVD-A with DVD more than CD to SACD, simply because there are far more DVD players out there than SACD. People are conditioned to think of DVD as the next format for everything.
well .... it is charles' place for the month but of course all suggestions / comments / thoughts are more then welcome ... not only in this topic but all over the forum.

Thanks for your thoughts Jax .... much apreciated and I agree with them .... and others .... please feel free to comment too.
Old 5th November 2002
  #8
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Very interesting...

On the one hand, certain engineers seem to be sold on redundant sampling rates (96K et al).

On the other hand, certain engineers don't seem to be bothered by the fact that SACD utilizes 1-bit conversion.

Don't tell me I'm the only one here who sees the inherent contradiction in that.
Old 5th November 2002
  #9
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I don't see the contradiction there. High bit rate PCM conversion and SACD are trying to acheive the same thing: capturing as wide a bandwith as is practical given the current technology. PCM is still the only practical technology for inplementing a multitrack DAW. If SACD does final delivery better fine, let's use it.
Anyway I think the winning format will not do so on the strenght of better sonics...
Old 5th November 2002
  #10
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Quote:
I don't see the contradiction there. High bit rate PCM conversion and SACD are trying to acheive the same thing: capturing as wide a bandwith as is practical given the current technology.
A more contradictory statement I myself could not possibly concieve.

In what fashion do you view a 1-bit signal as "wide bandwidth"???

More succinctly,

How do you dither a 1-bit signal?
Old 5th November 2002
  #11
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Charles Dye's Avatar
 

Chris,

"what do you think will be the future standard ? DVD-A or SACD?"

I have to plead ignorance on that one. It's also a decision that will be made inspite of my opinion. The consumer will make their mind up, and I will simply wait for them to deliver the verdict.

I've heard neither, do you have any experience with either one? Which do you think will win out + why?
Old 6th November 2002
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

Re: predictions for how quickly 96k will become a pro music standard

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
I am v keen to get rocking with 96k multitracking. I am using it for mixes already.
Hey Jules ...

Been running HD at 96 w/ a combination of Prisms and 192's... labels like the idea that surround stuff is DVD-A ready ... audio performance is good ... roughly the same DSP performance as a PT 'classic' rig ( grggt ) at 48 ...
Old 6th November 2002
  #13
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Steve Smith's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Charles Dye
Chris,

"what do you think will be the future standard ? DVD-A or SACD?"

. It's also a decision that will be made inspite of my opinion. The consumer will make their mind up, and I will simply wait for them to deliver the verdict.

A good point.. I dont even track at 48K because of the final product's sample rate.. I figure if I veer do have stuff re released on SACD or DVD, it will warrant a remaster, and they can use whatever sample reate they want after an analog mastering chain...

96K is apparently very nice, but I am in Kansas City and there arent really that many options for hearing, and i can't viably upgrade financially anyway, no sense torturing myself
Old 6th November 2002
  #14
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Do you guys actually think 99% of the people who buy what we do will be able to tell whether or not we cut at 96K just by listening?

I don't. I'll bet less than 10% could spot a CD vs an mp3.

And so the point is................?


Regards,
Brian T
Old 6th November 2002
  #15
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Curve Dominant's Avatar
Quote:
Do you guys actually think 99% of the people who buy what we do will be able to tell whether or not we cut at 96K just by listening?

I don't. I'll bet less than 10% could spot a CD vs an mp3.

And so the point is................?


Regards,
Brian T
Yo, the "other" BT is in the howz...

I hear ya bro.
Old 6th November 2002
  #16
Richard Chycki - "Been running HD at 96 w/ a combination of Prisms and 192's... labels like the idea that surround stuff is DVD-A ready ... audio performance is good ... roughly the same DSP performance as a PT 'classic' rig at 48"

Wow! Just the kind of info I need!

How do the Prisms stand up to the 192 converters at 96K?

What config are you set up with?

How is "Save session copy in" and back ups with 96k sesssions?

How are the Prisms getting into your PTHD rig?

How many process cards do you have?

Does using surround AND 96k really hit DSP plug in capability hard?

Old 6th November 2002
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
How do the Prisms stand up to the 192 converters at 96K?
The Prisms sound awesome .... 192 sound great too although we've experienced an abnormally high failure rate with the 192's for some odd reason ... had to swap out three of them during the last mix run

Quote:
What config are you set up with?
HD3 driving 5 192's ... 192's have the extra 8 analog out option except for one which has a Prism hooked up via AES ... there's a second Prism floater but it always seems to be tied up in one of the other rooms so this is my usual hookup ...

Have you tried the PTHD interface Prism says they have? Not sure if it's reverse engineered or what ... could be scary everytime software upgrades come up.

Quote:
How is "Save session copy in" and back ups with 96k sesssions?
When this system was configured, it went into a new G4 so I can't give you a direct comparison of apples to apples .... the computer processes session copies faster than 'the old rig' but theres's more data to copy.

File size is double so backups take twice as long .... my second is pretty diligent so backups are pretty incremental. Once in a while, there's some extra coffee time for a restore in the AM ...

Quote:
Does using surround AND 96k really hit DSP plug in capability hard?
With respect to plug-in count, running HD at 96 is roughly analagous to running a classic PT system at 48, if I were to hazard a guess. The plugin availability at 96 is still disappointing ... for some 'necessary' effects, I end up having to export the audio out to 48k process it and import it back in ... go figure ...

I haven't done a full blown mix in surround using HD yet. The rig is connected to a 9080J and I do the majority of mix work there ... but some of the wilder 'spinny' moves are done within a matrix I have set up in PT ...
Old 6th November 2002
  #18
Thanks for the cool info, one more question.

Q. What do you have coming in & out of the Prisms? What do you choose to record or play back with em?

"Have you tried the PTHD interface Prism says they have? Not sure if it's reverse engineered or what ... could be scary everytime software upgrades come up."

No I haven't and know no-one who has either.

Old 6th November 2002
  #19
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
Q. What do you have coming in & out of the Prisms? What do you choose to record or play back with em?
It's the main buss converter for the 5.1 and stereo mixes ... great sounding unit.
Old 6th November 2002
  #20
So you mix HD out on a J and choose to record into PT & monitor the 5.1 results with the Prisms?

What about on stereo sessions?

Old 6th November 2002
  #21
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
So you mix HD out on a J and choose to record into PT & monitor the 5.1 results with the Prisms?

What about on stereo sessions?
Exactly ...

Stereo is dependent on the material .... 1/2" occasionally 1", Prism into PT (24/96) and Genex are the usual contenders
Old 8th November 2002
  #22
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Hi Richard, I guess you're doing your mixing at Metalworks? Or is there another J in Toronto?
Old 8th November 2002
  #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by groundcontrol
Hi Richard, I guess you're doing your mixing at Metalworks? Or is there another J in Toronto?
There are only 2 J's in all of Canada that I'm aware of the Metalworks J and Bryan's out in Van.

I frequent Sony in NY and Record Plant in LA too but TO's home so if I can do my mixes there, I can spend some family time too

Best regards,
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