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polishing kick drum turds
Old 13th July 2007
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead View Post
Scott, the Transient Designer = holy #&@^ results most times, coupled with the correct EQ of course.

Drumagog is excellent, excellent stuff. As far as not triggering right, it's about as easy as it gets. If something mis-triggers you can simply cut or boost that section of the original track to get it to work right. Usually I have to do this once or twice on a pretty busy song. Straight rock / AC-DC type playing it's almost never an issue.

War
I’ve been experimenting with the Transmodder, and it’s actually been doing wonders. It ain’t perfect, but it’s about 100 times closer to what it should be without going to samples. This is one those things that I can’t believe I haven’t used yet that now I’m not sure how I’ll do without. Very cool stuff.
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War – side note. Got all the mics and am very pleased with everything – thanks a bunch!
Old 13th July 2007
  #32
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 

Thanks for letting ME take care of you!

You're very welcome.

War
Old 14th July 2007
  #33
Gear Nut
 

nuther vote for samples here

pretty much everything you do to the track after recording it is DESTRUCTIVE. that means that you will not be able to polish a turd into a diamond :P, you can only make a different shaped turd :D
Old 14th July 2007
  #34
Lives for gear
 

Drumagog and a good compressor outboard or plugger.

nIC
Old 14th July 2007
  #35
Gear Addict
 
greyskull's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor View Post
Combine the samples with the original tracks processed is what i like best in these situations.

What you hear is the original tracks but beefed up with the samples under them.
+1 thats the way samples should be used
Old 14th July 2007
  #36
Gear Maniac
 

Instead of multi band compression, manually mult the signal in to two or three components. HPF one of them and work on the click in it. LPF one and work on the low end. If you're not into samples you might consider adding a 70Hz(or whatever frq works) oscillator into it the drum, gate it, and key the gate with the bass drum. You can really tailor the attack and decay of this with the gate. You might also try doing the same to the high end with some white or pink noise or some other more suitable high-endish noise.

On the last rock record I did I had really good results with cutoff filtering different mics that I had on the bass drum. Way better than if I'd just tried eqing and mixing them all together.
Old 14th July 2007
  #37
Without hearing the drum track I'm not going to tell you how to eq it. But using transient designer and or parallel compression can help. BTW rather than poorly recorded it may be the drummers not great. If the drummer hits like a wuss it may come down to retriggering and mixing the sample in
Old 16th July 2007
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclab View Post
Without hearing the drum track I'm not going to tell you how to eq it. But using transient designer and or parallel compression can help. BTW rather than poorly recorded it may be the drummers not great. If the drummer hits like a wuss it may come down to retriggering and mixing the sample in
I’m actually realizing that this is closer to the truth. Some passages (very few) actually have pretty decent beater definition and low end oomph, while the vast majority sound like the dude gently rested his toe on the front skin. Lots of double hits (not the cool kind) and generally bizarre stuff going on. I think it’s a combination of bad tuning, bad micing, and not-that-great playing.
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I’ve gotten pretty good results now by using a combination of the techniques posted here: Some multing, some parallel compression, and some transient modeling. I am going to have to use samples on one cut, though, and the kick is so light (with lots of cross-bleed in the mic) that I’m not sure how well it’s going to track – we’ll see.
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Thanks all very much for the great help.
Old 16th July 2007
  #39
Gear Addict
 
hw2nw's Avatar
 

yet another advocate for some heavy comp and a mix of Drumagog.
Old 16th July 2007
  #40
Gear Addict
 
Lee Knight's Avatar
 

I use Drumagog too sometimes but....

...more and more I'm finding that using Tritone's PhaseTone works magic on kicks. If you've got 2 kick mics they might have been setup without regard to phase. This plug works wonders. Even a single kick mic can be adjusted to work better with the rest of the mics. It is magic.

TriTone Digital - For The Love of Tone!

And it is free.
Old 16th July 2007
  #41
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadmeat View Post
Done some of this, but to be honest, I really am not nuts about the idea. The tracking gets close, but for some material, never perfect. I also just don’t like the idea much – kinda seems like cheating, and the drummers almost always hate the idea. That’s not to say I won’t do it, I’d rather do everything I possibly can to the original material before reverting to samples.

You can polish and shine a turd as much as you want but it'll still be a turd. I can't understand why a drummer would rather hear a ****ty sounding real kick vs a perfect sounding sample given the situation.

Sure you can throw all the transient designers and eqs and comps you want, but it sounds to me like the result will still sound like a compromise. And compromising the kick drum, which is the back bone balls of the song, it just ain't right.
Old 16th July 2007
  #42
Gear Nut
 

I'm also a drummer who records myself. I once thought I'd use a ****ty kick drum cause it sounded "cool."

In the mix, it sounded ****, so I took a sample of my kick from a better recording and "drumagoged" it.

I found that I got much better results bouncing it to an audio track, lining it up to accomodate for latency, and hand pasted any mis-hits.

also a good idea to mix in a little of the crappy kick to make it gel with the bleed from the other mics and overheads.

Anyway - if you're absolutely going to town on plug-ins to make ****ty kick sound usable, how is that any different from sample enhancing?

btw - don't forget to go into advanced settings and set the quality to hi!
Old 17th July 2007
  #43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Knight View Post
I use Drumagog too sometimes but....

...more and more I'm finding that using Tritone's PhaseTone works magic on kicks. If you've got 2 kick mics they might have been setup without regard to phase. This plug works wonders. Even a single kick mic can be adjusted to work better with the rest of the mics. It is magic.

TriTone Digital - For The Love of Tone!

And it is free.
Yeah but all the phase tricks in the world won't help you if the drummer's a wuss
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