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Non-touchscreen digital mixer?
Old 25th November 2020 | Show parent
  #31
Gear Head
 
Thank you for your review. Yes it was so simple, looking at back panel was enough, but as I said I read too much yesterday.
I believe you are convincing me about this desk. Reading user manual it seems that all main operations do not need touch screen usage, and this is very important for me. Thanks.
Old 25th November 2020 | Show parent
  #32
Lives for gear
 
cheu78's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superpiano View Post
Thank you for your review. Yes it was so simple, looking at back panel was enough, but as I said I read too much yesterday.
I believe you are convincing me about this desk. Reading user manual it seems that all main operations do not need touch screen usage, and this is very important for me. Thanks.
You’re welcome.

I suggest to get the desk from a place with a 15 or 30 days return, so you can use it, test it (and most probably keep it).. but it gives you the chance to send it back in case it’s not for you..
Or go to a dealer and test one, but at this time might be tricky to do that..

Btw there several short videos made by A&H on youtube that shows well the operation and functions of the desk.



Cheu
Old 25th November 2020
  #33
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I gave my QU16 to my grandsons for their garage band after I purchased a QUsb. As I mentioned in post #18 traveling light is a big deal for me with the limited channel count I deploy. I used a late model 5th gen I-Pad with the QUsb that worked very well. However a-h recommends a 7th or later generation I-Pad for remote control of the SQ line. The new I-Pad air (8th gen) is a great fit with the SQ5/DX168 combo. There are a few esoteric functions that are not available to control with the SQ wifi I-Pad soft ware, however this has not proven to be a problem for me. I keep the I-Pad on a rack that is attached to my mic stand so I can follow the opto comp input levels of suspect exuberant performers in my bluegrass ensemble. I always multi- track preamp input for post production two mix insertion in video editing. My Glyph HD has proven to be very dependable match for the SQ USB drive format for multi-track capture. In the event more than 16 channels of capture is needed a Dante or Waves card will probably be a good idea.
Hugh
Old 25th November 2020 | Show parent
  #34
Lives for gear
 
gravyface's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughshouse View Post
I gave my QU16 to my grandsons for their garage band after I purchased a QUsb. As I mentioned in post #18 traveling light is a big deal for me with the limited channel count I deploy. I used a late model 5th gen I-Pad with the QUsb that worked very well. However a-h recommends a 7th or later generation I-Pad for remote control of the SQ line. The new I-Pad air (8th gen) is a great fit with the SQ5/DX168 combo. There are a few esoteric functions that are not available to control with the SQ wifi I-Pad soft ware, however this has not proven to be a problem for me. I keep the I-Pad on a rack that is attached to my mic stand so I can follow the opto comp input levels of suspect exuberant performers in my bluegrass ensemble. I always multi- track preamp input for post production two mix insertion in video editing. My Glyph HD has proven to be very dependable match for the SQ USB drive format for multi-track capture. In the event more than 16 channels of capture is needed a Dante or Waves card will probably be a good idea.
Hugh
Hugh,

What was experience comparing the sonics of the preamps and converters going from the Qu to the SQ series on a scale of 1 to 10?

10 being "Night and day": any novice could hear the difference; I liken this to flipping the polarity on a bottom snare mic that's nearly 100% out of phase from the top mic.

1 being, with extensive critical listening, an advanced listener may discern a minute qualitative (yet subjective) difference.
Old 25th November 2020 | Show parent
  #35
Gear Head
 
Another point for which I did not find any mention in A&H documentation. Have the board any internal fan? If so, what is noise level? My actual X32 has a fan but it is very difficult to hear it, so noise is very low and you note that only during silence moments. Anyone knows this? Thanks.
Old 25th November 2020 | Show parent
  #36
Lives for gear
 
gravyface's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superpiano View Post
Another point for which I did not find any mention in A&H documentation. Have the board any internal fan? If so, what is noise level? My actual X32 has a fan but it is very difficult to hear it, so noise is very low and you note that only during silence moments. Anyone knows this? Thanks.
The Qu series is 100% passively cooled; I suspect that they kept that design with SQ.
Old 25th November 2020
  #37
Here for the gear
 
One option that no-one has mentioned yet is to keep the X32, and upgrade the IO.

It should be fairly inexpensive and easy to rent one of the Midas digital stage boxes that are interoperable with the X32, this would give you the chance to properly evaluate and compare the preamps and output conversion within your normal working environment - you get two obvious choices, the DL16/DL32 which are aimed at the M32/X32 market, and the DL251 which is aimed at the more expensive Midas Pro line (there are other Pro line IO boxes, but compatibility with 48khz operation might be subject to firmware updates and other technical hoops). Website claims that the pres in the DL16/32 are same as Pro series, but the Pro series are 96khz capable and there may be other differences in the implementation of the preamps between the two boxes that might or might not be audible at 48khz.

You also have available on the X32 AES/EBU digital output which could be used to send a digital signal to a professional studio quality standalone DAC for critical listening purposes within the studio environment. This isn't a cheap option, but it does allow you to split your investment cost without compromising on quality, and defer doing this to a later date.

In your position I'd be talking to local PA companies to find out what they are using and if they have the Midas boxes and A&H SQ series available for hire.
Old 25th November 2020 | Show parent
  #38
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
I’m generally a fan of a&h digital offerings. We use the qu and gld as well as the dlive and the flexibility of the entire range is impressive, especially for the price!

There is just one caveat regarding the madi expansion card... the madi card is pretty limited and very expensive. The card cannot switch to 56/28 channel mode so it won’t work well with video-centric equipment that requires pull-up/down and in the case of the gld, the word clock IN/out bnc jack will only function as a word clock OUT even though the manual for the card and all marketing copy says it will function as an input. (There’s one specific mention about this functionality in all of a&h’s documentation!!!)

If the card was a couple hundred bucks (like the sound craft or behringer cards) I could overlook this, but at over $1000, this omission is basically unforgivable... Also, I’ve had nothing but problems with the a&h madi card. It doesn’t seem to work at a distance of over about 30’, even though a&h claim the coax madi will work at over 300’. Oh and the a&h card ONLY offers coax madi so to get more than 30’, we had to buy a coax to fiber converter and run fiber to get the console to reliably talk to the production studio 200’ away... pathetic! Of course, once I ran 15’ of coax into the $4500 rme madi router (close to the cost of the entire gld console and also required to translate 64 channel to 56 channel), everything worked flawlessly with the system5...

So, generally speaking, I love the a&h digital consoles... the entire range!! But the completely botched madi implementation is enough to move me to DiGiCo next time around...
Old 26th November 2020 | Show parent
  #39
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmdaugherty View Post
I’m generally a fan of a&h digital offerings. We use the qu and gld as well as the dlive and the flexibility of the entire range is impressive, especially for the price!

There is just one caveat regarding the madi expansion card... the madi card is pretty limited and very expensive. The card cannot switch to 56/28 channel mode so it won’t work well with video-centric equipment that requires pull-up/down and in the case of the gld, the word clock IN/out bnc jack will only function as a word clock OUT even though the manual for the card and all marketing copy says it will function as an input. (There’s one specific mention about this functionality in all of a&h’s documentation!!!)

If the card was a couple hundred bucks (like the sound craft or behringer cards) I could overlook this, but at over $1000, this omission is basically unforgivable... Also, I’ve had nothing but problems with the a&h madi card. It doesn’t seem to work at a distance of over about 30’, even though a&h claim the coax madi will work at over 300’. Oh and the a&h card ONLY offers coax madi so to get more than 30’, we had to buy a coax to fiber converter and run fiber to get the console to reliably talk to the production studio 200’ away... pathetic! Of course, once I ran 15’ of coax into the $4500 rme madi router (close to the cost of the entire gld console and also required to translate 64 channel to 56 channel), everything worked flawlessly with the system5...

So, generally speaking, I love the a&h digital consoles... the entire range!! But the completely botched madi implementation is enough to move me to DiGiCo next time around...
this indeed is unforgivable, especially considering the fact that madi has been 'understood' for close to 30 years now and sister company calrec has clearly managed to do so... - thx for the warning!
Old 26th November 2020 | Show parent
  #40
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superpiano View Post
Thank you so much to all for so many advices, greatly appreciated.
Yes I'm agre that manufacturers are going into a wrong way, but it is, and we can just wait for better times (if they will come).
As I mentioned earlier, I'm looking for a compact, all-in-one, not modular console. So,
Reading all your advices, I believe that I will keep my X32 for much time, although I know it does not offer high end performances and I was looking for something having high end audio performances.
I'm looking for Soundcraft SI Expression 3, it is a budget console, not sure if it can be considered "high end" (maybe not), but it has touch screen, too. Bad luck.
Thank you again.
The soundcraft expression boards are fantastic if you want to drive yourself crazy and tear your hair out... and if you use the iPad app that goes double.

If you are comfortable on the x32, what about the M32? I have the Midas stage box for my x32 rack and the preamps are noticeably better. I get to mix on a digico sd9 most of the time and I prefer the sound of that, but I don’t think the Midas box sounds bad at all. I don’t think the x32 sounds bad either, the Midas just sounds better.

Edit: I see that it was recommended a few posts above as well, so I second that it’s worth checking out.
Old 26th November 2020 | Show parent
  #41
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrufino1 View Post
The soundcraft expression boards are fantastic if you want to drive yourself crazy and tear your hair out... and if you use the iPad app that goes double.
fake news: the two si performer1 desks which i have been using on bonsai gigs for years perform without any issues - the option to assign just those channels which are needed to the surface and hide all the rest make them serious contenders for 'dummy operation' situations...
Old 26th November 2020 | Show parent
  #42
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
They do sound great and are reliable, but they make absolutely no sense to me. With digital mixers, I think everyone has some that make sense to them and some that are frustrating. I don’t know the differences between the performer and expression, they look similar, but the expression frustrated me to no end.
Old 26th November 2020 | Show parent
  #43
Lives for gear
 
of course i cannot change your perception but a desk which 'sounds great and is reliable' does not 'frustrate' me, on the contrary: that's pretty much all i want from a desk in the lower price range - no doubt the design and operation has its quircks but that's the nature of every approach being inplemented:
so far, i've noticed by far the largest amount of inexperienced (and even some experienced) users struggling with digico desks so for corporate shows and other smallish gigs (small in terms of the amount of channels getting used and/or shows operated by amateurs and operation essentially imited to fader pushing), we provide either yamaha or soundcraft desks.

(the performer adds fully parametric eq's, got a few more options in terms of fader assignment and has even some simplistic dmx control options, the latter of which is very handy in some situations)
Old 26th November 2020 | Show parent
  #44
Gear Head
 
OK, I'm seriously thinking to make this leap, and buy A&H SQ7. It could be a great Christmas present! ahaha!!
But I must sell my X32 at first. If anyone would be interesting please let me know. Thanks.
Old 27th November 2020 | Show parent
  #45
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
of course i cannot change your perception but a desk which 'sounds great and is reliable' does not 'frustrate' me, on the contrary: that's pretty much all i want from a desk in the lower price range - no doubt the design and operation has its quircks but that's the nature of every approach being inplemented:
so far, i've noticed by far the largest amount of inexperienced (and even some experienced) users struggling with digico desks so for corporate shows and other smallish gigs (small in terms of the amount of channels getting used and/or shows operated by amateurs and operation essentially imited to fader pushing), we provide either yamaha or soundcraft desks.

(the performer adds fully parametric eq's, got a few more options in terms of fader assignment and has even some simplistic dmx control options, the latter of which is very handy in some situations)
I get what you’re saying, and I used the expression for 2 years at that gig because I had to, but I don’t prefer the interface, that’s all. Neither one of us is wrong, so there is no fake news. My initial post about the expression was made in jest. However, if given my choice I would not choose to work on the expression. I did enjoy the vi series when I had chances to use it.

I did like the Yamaha way of working when I worked on one for a few years, but now I am using an sd9 in this location and I love the digico interface. Before that was installed, I was asked a lot of questions about whether I’d prefer a new Yamaha or a digico, with concern that I’d have to learn another interface, but that wasn’t my worry and I’m glad that we went with digico. If a Yamaha had been installed I wouldn’t have been upset either though.

I don’t think it’s any different from one person preferring Honda and one person preferring Toyota- they’ve both proven to make reliable cars, but some people just like one or the other better. My 5 speed cr-v is my favorite car that I’ve ever owned.
Old 27th November 2020
  #46
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
To the OP, I don’t think you’ll be disappointed in the AH, I haven’t used one but I have read and heard that they are very good. The sound crew at a casino I used to play had one installed and said they liked using it.
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