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Are there any notable albums that were mixed exclusively on headphones?
Old 2nd June 2020
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKosherButcher View Post
Sonarworks for headphones is $110, and HD600s are $330, brand new. That's $440, not $800... Sure that's more than the HD58x, but its still not $800.
You're right, I was thinking of the studio edition.

Anyway, I don't like any correction software. I tried them. It made headphones sound weird. Just like monitors, it's a very personal choice. I prefer HD600 in their natural form.
Old 2nd June 2020
  #92
Quote:
Originally Posted by GravesNumber9 View Post
To me this is really simple. Pretty much everything sounds good on headphones. Seriously, even the crappiest mixes sound interesting on headphones. I never experience the pain of "ugh, what the hell is that?" when listening in this way.

Maybe others feel differently but that's why I don't trust headphone mixes. They never sound painfully bad and they almost always sound good. That's not helpful.
That phenomenon won't be the case with better headphones.
Old 2nd June 2020
  #93
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by N1Greg View Post
You're right, I was thinking of the studio edition.

Anyway, I don't like any correction software. I tried them. It made headphones sound weird. Just like monitors, it's a very personal choice. I prefer HD600 in their natural form.
You can reference with the correction on and off. I feel like going through that “weird,” sound while you’re working on the music is worth it, because it always translates better.

Its for pros. People who care more about being able to make a mix that translate the first time. Anything that makes the job easier is a good thing.

Tbh I dont even think it changes the sound that much, or really makes it “weird,” at all. Im just playing with ya.
Old 2nd June 2020
  #94
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKosherButcher View Post
Sonarworks for headphones is $110, and HD600s are $330, brand new. That's $440, not $800... Sure that's more than the HD58x, but its still not $800.
When I bought my pair they were around 500-600 after tax and shipping. Sonarworks studio edition was an additional 400 bucks. Its a 1000 dollar monitoring setup so Im happy with it. I dont want to low ball myself. We’re audio engineers, not casual listeners.

Thats in CAD of course.

If you got into this and you’re not proud of the money you spent then we all know what happened. Lol.
Old 3rd June 2020
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N1Greg View Post
HD600 + Sonarwork = $800 (to correct bass problem)

HD58x Jubilee = $150 (bass corrected by design).

I have both. I have no problem with HD600 bass though. Even though it's rolled off, but when it's too much it gets ugly quick, simple as that. I used AR S3 when I was just starting out mixing with headphones, but after a while I found out I understand them just as well without any software crutches.
I have the 58X but am lusting at the 600. How do they compare for mixing other than the low end? I never liked correction either. I just can't get myself to trust them.
Old 3rd June 2020
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goom View Post
I have the 58X but am lusting at the 600. How do they compare for mixing other than the low end? I never liked correction either. I just can't get myself to trust them.
I can't switch between them fast enough. You have to take one pair off put the other one on, rewind the song... by then you forget what the 1st ones sounded like... Basically impossible to draw any solid conclusions. I'd say they're about the same. I think HD600 are slightly silkier if at all, but I only spent a few hours in HD58x, they're my backup cans (got them on sale for no reason). I listened to some familiar music on them, and to my ears they sounded pretty much the same, maybe slightly grainier (but it could be my imagination). I wouldn't bother upgrading to 600 if I were you.

I don't trust HD600 100% though at this point. Still have to check everything on all 3 pairs of monitors. But I don't have a problem doing a lot of mixing work on them, just not everything. For me, they don't reveal everything at the level of detail of monitors, I think I have trouble reading the 150-500Hz area. The boomy/boxy vocals sound kind of ok on them. Auratones hit me with that hard, but on HD600 this area can sound... vaguely ok. Also, nasty 1-3kHz midrange sounds ok on them (I think they have a scoop in that area or are too flat). Same, Auratones will take my ears off if something is off... HD600 still sound pleasant. So I'll work on areas that they are helpful with (imaging, balance, low end etc), and then switch to monitors once I need more detail.

Maybe in a year or two I'll understand them better.
Old 3rd June 2020
  #97
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by goom View Post
I have the 58X but am lusting at the 600. How do they compare for mixing other than the low end? I never liked correction either. I just can't get myself to trust them.
The whole point of correction is that you get the same frequency response regardless of the gear used. Whatever you’re using as your reference monitors can still just be reference monitors, you just don't have to bugger around with 5 pairs of monitors. You can get used to it easy it really just gives you a completely neutral way to mix. After you get used to it you’ll not need to waste as much time switching between a bunch of different monitors because the resulting translation will come to represent, (to your ears,) more of how the un-corrected monitors are warping the sound than how the corrected ones are “wrong,” or “weird.” (Because you’re checking on them after you mixed with the perfectly flat system first.) The correction is perfect. There are no flaws in the software. Whats the real goal of mixing on imperfect monitors if perfection is an option?
Old 3rd June 2020
  #98
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enlightened Hand View Post
That phenomenon won't be the case with better headphones.
oh here come the professional engineers with their Elitist recommendations again!

Old 3rd June 2020
  #99
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Hey, that's not the main reason I come here. Entertainment first, (hopefully) learning after!
I'm gonna feel like a rebel, when my get my new "Horror-Tone"s.
Chris
P.S. I'm selling all my Genelec's now and my stock investments in the Company SHORT too, because of this thread.
Old 4th June 2020
  #100
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enlightened Hand View Post
That phenomenon won't be the case with better headphones.
I don't know, I'm using k701's which aren't budget, though not top end. I've used a lot of headphones though.

I think the extreme separation of the parts is somehow forgiving to my ears. Or maybe it's really a brain thing less than an ear thing, it's not that I can't hear the frequencies, they just don't bother me as much on cans.
Old 4th June 2020
  #101
Quote:
Originally Posted by GravesNumber9 View Post
I don't know, I'm using k701's which aren't budget, though not top end. I've used a lot of headphones though.

I think the extreme separation of the parts is somehow forgiving to my ears. Or maybe it's really a brain thing less than an ear thing, it's not that I can't hear the frequencies, they just don't bother me as much on cans.
I too used to use the K series. They're great.

Maybe it is a brain thing. I don't know. But I do know there are some pretty good headphones that deliver more than the 701. You might try something new.
Old 4th June 2020
  #102
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enlightened Hand View Post
I too used to use the K series. They're great.

Maybe it is a brain thing. I don't know. But I do know there are some pretty good headphones that deliver more than the 701. You might try something new.
Get thee behind me!!!
Old 4th June 2020
  #103
You might try Audeze.

Recently they made a believer out of me. The LCD-X is superior to any headphone I've listened to. It's outstanding and worth the price for me.

The LCD-1 is almost that good and better than all of the $500 and less headphones that I've listened to.

I bought them both.

It's truly amazing what Audeze has done.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #104
Gear Addict
 
ABBA's Avatar
I also like the sound of Audeze but not all the quality issues
and the fact that they are uncomfortable, heavy and warm.
For the asking price they really should be more reliable.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #105
V.t
Gear Head
The Alligator That Survived by Lyricalvolt.
Album totally mixed and mastered on the ATH M50x.
May not be notable, but I went that route.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #106
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABBA View Post
I also like the sound of Audeze but not all the quality issues
and the fact that they are uncomfortable, heavy and warm.
For the asking price they really should be more reliable.
I have currently 3 different Audeze models. The LCD-1 isn't heavy at all. The LCD-X is heavy and the Mobius is in between the two but amazing for video conferencing. None have had any reliability problems as far as I can tell and the most expensive one, the LCD-X, has a 3 year warranty.

What data are you basing your reliability complaint on? Do they publish their reliability data? I don't understand when people say stuff like "all the quality issues" without context. And when people say things like that I find the statements suspicious without context. It's like a slick way of implying that one shouldn't trust them for something that is never demonstrated as a legitimate problem. It's like voter fraud in the U.S.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #107
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mbvoxx's Avatar
If most people listen to music now on ear buds, wouldn't it make sense to mix on earbuds or headphones? I don't know anyone who has a system with speakers anymore. Either they listen on their earbuds or bluetooth their music into their vehicle sound system.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #108
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A better question would be when cans are the "primary" monitoring source as opposed to "exclusively". I discovered in 1975 in a very high end studio that I could deal with Bluegrass tracks better with cans than the speakers that were available to impress clients. I purchased a pair of open back Grado 325s 15 years ago and gave my monitors to my garage band grandsons. I do cross reference all final two mixes with high end car systems and occasionally studio monitors. There is no magic voodo with monitor speakers or cans: use the device that sonically delivers for you a predictable, dependable representation of the tracks available to forge a cohesive two mix.
Some folks prefer a one ton dually pick up truck while others would rather have a weather prepared electric golf cart: either one can usually get the job done.
Hugh
Old 4 weeks ago
  #109
Smart Phone + Earbuds = Average Joe Music Consumer's "Home HiFi" of 2020.

Clearmountain's NS10 was it, of that era, the Auratone was of that era before ns10's, as I understand it.

Come to think of it, Im surprised some famous engineer hasn't made some certain brand earbuds, the new "ns10" of earbuds.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #110
Gear Addict
 
ABBA's Avatar
Lots of complaints / issues with Audeze in many headphone forums, different models, different problems.
Easy to Google.
I advice buyer beware.
Kept me from buying LCD-X with the troubles I had with my LCD-3.
The 3-year warranty is nice - chances are you will need it.

Quote:
It's like a slick way of implying that one shouldn't trust them for something that is never demonstrated as a legitimate problem. It's like voter fraud in the U.S.
Thanks for your rude comment. Just because you haven't had problems does not mean they don't exist.
I am here to learn - and to share my part.



And to come back to the topic - I really like HPs (even Audeze) for checking mixes I made with monitors
but I would not like to do a complete mix with them. Just my opinion, nothing more.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #111
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Melgueil's Avatar
 

Headphones? I've done it, very, very challenging but you can get a good mix - some of the time. Translation is often tough.

That said, so many "home studio" rooms are completely inadequate for getting anything close to a neutral mix that will translate well. We've all seen the foam and home made bass traps in a 3x3 meter square room - and they wonder why they struggle to get a good mix (think bass).

I thought I had heard somewhere that Todd Rundgren had done some mixing on headphones, just cannot recall where.

Cdlt
Old 4 weeks ago
  #112
Here for the gear
 

The point is that you cannot mix what you cannot hear. Moreover, the stereo imaging cannot be tweaked properly on headphones.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #113
Here for the gear
 

It is pointless to try mixing what you cannot hear. Moreover, stereo imaging on headphones is very tricky.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #114
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABBA View Post
Lots of complaints / issues with Audeze in many headphone forums, different models, different problems.
Easy to Google.
I advice buyer beware.
Kept me from buying LCD-X with the troubles I had with my LCD-3.
The 3-year warranty is nice - chances are you will need it.



Thanks for your rude comment. Just because you haven't had problems does not mean they don't exist.
I am here to learn - and to share my part.



And to come back to the topic - I really like HPs (even Audeze) for checking mixes I made with monitors
but I would not like to do a complete mix with them. Just my opinion, nothing more.
So again you're using your experience and a Google search to say a company has serious issues with quality control. But you have no data. Not convincing evidence. And not very reasonable thinking.

It sounds like you should take your own advice. I stand by what I wrote. You're using the fact that you had problems to say buyer beware.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #115
Gear Addict
 
Calagan's Avatar
 

Did any of you find any help with plugins that try to recreate the stereo imaging of the speakers (with crossover and ambisonic tricks) ?
Like for exemple Goodhertz' Canopener or the recent Blue Cat's Re-Head ?

I tried Re-head recently and found it quite nice at recreating the feeling of the speakers (I compared it to my speakers - but my room is far from perfect).
It changes quite a lot the transients and the tonal balance in the highs, in a way that seems to fit the speaker's feeling, but it's a change so I don't know if it's truly useful for mixing...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #116
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calagan View Post
Did any of you find any help with plugins that try to recreate the stereo imaging of the speakers (with crossover and ambisonic tricks) ?
Like for exemple Goodhertz' Canopener or the recent Blue Cat's Re-Head ?

I tried Re-head recently and found it quite nice at recreating the feeling of the speakers (I compared it to my speakers - but my room is far from perfect).
It changes quite a lot the transients and the tonal balance in the highs, in a way that seems to fit the speaker's feeling, but it's a change so I don't know if it's truly useful for mixing...
Not to mention that it changes the phase quite a bit. That is not a solution. Play with phase only when you are sure to control it from the source.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #117
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melgueil View Post
Headphones? I've done it, very, very challenging but you can get a good mix - some of the time. Translation is often tough.

That said, so many "home studio" rooms are completely inadequate for getting anything close to a neutral mix that will translate well. We've all seen the foam and home made bass traps in a 3x3 meter square room - and they wonder why they struggle to get a good mix (think bass).

I thought I had heard somewhere that Todd Rundgren had done some mixing on headphones, just cannot recall where.

Cdlt
Yep, I could not have said it better
Old 4 weeks ago
  #118
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbvoxx View Post
If most people listen to music now on ear buds, wouldn't it make sense to mix on earbuds or headphones? I don't know anyone who has a system with speakers anymore. Either they listen on their earbuds or bluetooth their music into their vehicle sound system.
Well, earbuds degrade what has been mixed. Now, imagine a mix done on earbuds degraded again on other earbuds. Welcome to noise world. That makes no sense at all. Why not stopping to even listen to music at that point.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #119
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbvoxx View Post
If most people listen to music now on ear buds, wouldn't it make sense to mix on earbuds or headphones?
Maybe you should start a thread asking for a list of notable albums that are mixed on earbuds!

Quote:
I don't know anyone who has a system with speakers anymore. Either they listen on their earbuds or bluetooth their music into their vehicle sound system.
If the Consumer Lowest Common Denominator was the be all and end all, wouldn't Video Post-Production Houses be using a TV from Target for their color grading?

Ask yourself what music do people listen to on those earbuds? Well they listen to mostly commercially-produced music. And how was that commercially-produced music mixed? Clearly the vast majority was mixed on studio monitors. And the people who are listening on those earbuds like it. Are they complaining it sounds too "speakery" or something? Are they crying out for more "earbud-friendly" mixes? No. In fact, when they shop for a new pair of earbuds, they probably put on their favorite record and listen to how it sounds on that to judge if the earbuds are good or not. Their favorite record that was almost certainly mixed on monitors.

If we count that Alligator record nobody has heard of, this thread is up to - what? - six 'notable' albums mixed on headphones? Are there more? There may be dozens more, but compared to how many hundreds of thousands of albums that are mixed on speakers??

I check all my mixes on headphones, I check on earbuds, I check on a mono Auratone, I check in the car. I check my mix on all those things.

But I mix on speakers.

Perhaps some up-and-coming engineer will start mixing on earbuds, captivating his audiences in the process, and creating a New Paradigm of audio mixing! Perhaps you will be that up-and-coming engineer! Or perhaps it will be a total dead end you will just be wasting several years of your career chasing after something that others have already tried and discovered was not so great. Following the consumers instead of leading them.
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