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Why were vocal recordings so much better in the 1950s?
Old 2nd July 2020
  #1381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Only if it was a draining experience...
Chris
Some of those films are quite draining
Old 2nd July 2020
  #1382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayHeath View Post
I agree that only in exceptional cases do these two principles reinforce each other. Most music compositions and most performances are neither particularly good nor compelling. Objectively authentic or not, I view most recordings as. . .what was that word you used?
not sure which word you are referring to*... - to characterize some compositions/interpretations, i'm tempted to add yet another phrase which imo cannot get translated (very well) though: "entre chien et loup"

no, this doesn't refer to a chimera but to the short time during which the vanishing daylight turns into the dark of night - innit beautiful? - check out chad wackerman's 'between the dog and the wolf' which is a correct translation and yet is missing the point (as it cannot reflect the onomatopoeic quality of the french original) - i like the composition/interpretation nevertheless, not least as he chose the title after a long discussion we had during which i mentioned the original (or shall i say: 'authentic'?) french expression...

* i used the term "zwielichtig" (which could get translated with "twilight-ish") but it was in another context - it alludes to the french phrase though.

(...)

Quote:
I suppose we can let the culture - or experts, or objective metrics - define authentic, or treasure with respect to musical compositions and performances? But I'm mostly not disposed to walk that path.
...which i regret and decry: i'm way more interested in these discussions than the endless and recurring litany on gear and its use - but maybe a forum for elitist, arrogant and aloof idiots would do? count me in!


Quote:
It is in our minds and hearts where authenticity is most importantly defined and treasured.
i doubt the experts would go with that definition...

Quote:
I can't take that notion to the bank as a reflection of record sales revenue, though. Nor can I take it always to others in the culture.

In many cases, experiences augment our sense of authenticity. Some of these experiences are shared by the culture. Others are unique to a given individual, couple or small group.

Sometimes, though, there are artistic aspects of a tune itself, the arrangement and performance that shake my very soul. . .so exquisitely true, genuine and clear[1].
i can hardly think of any pop music which would bring me to my knees or to tears...


Quote:
[1] I don't know how tangible or authentic they appear to the culture or marketplace, sadly.
...while i can easily think of some classical (and especially early music) which does this every time!

imagine a penniless peasant who spent his whole life cramping in the fields - and then one day, and perhaps just once in his life, steps into a shining cathedral where gregorio allegri's 'misere' resounded during holy week:
that must have been a supernatural and overwhelming experience...
...and was possibly suitable to let the poor chap dream forever of a better, albeit otherworldly world and order!

___


to me, that seem to have a HUGE pop appeal! (which is not reflected in the marketplace though - is this market failure or ignorance?)

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 2nd July 2020 at 05:37 PM.. Reason: two small linguistically relevant bits inserted
Old 2nd July 2020
  #1383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
[. . .] i can hardly think of any pop music which would bring me to my knees or to tears [. . .]
Thanks for the great response. One thing at a time. . .You're not six foot six are you?

Stevie Wonder knows exactly how to rip my heart out, as do George Benson and Joe Sample. . .





. . .but there must be hundreds of others in my playlists. . .I'm so happy when I'm depressed.

Of course YouTube is the biggest heartbreaker. Who on earth wrote their audio compression algorithms? Not happy about that!


All In Love Is Fair,

Ray H.
Old 2nd July 2020
  #1384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayHeath View Post
Thanks for the great response. One thing at a time. . .You're not six foot six are you?

Stevie Wonder knows exactly how to rip my heart out, as do George Benson and Joe Sample. . .

(video)

(video)

. . .but there must be hundreds of others in my playlists. . .I'm so happy when I'm depressed.

Of course YouTube is the biggest heartbreaker. Who on earth wrote their audio compression algorithms? Not happy about that!


All In Love Is Fair,

Ray H.


i find things which move me mostly ouside youtube aka when mixing live - nevertheless, here's a link to a song which moved me a lot* close to 30 years ago:



context matters: i went to the montreux jazz festival to hear anita baker in the early nineties (and to mix monitors on a few shows) - george duke then opened up the evening saying that for some reason anita baker couldn't make to zwitscherlandia but he'd be proud to introduce someone who he thought would make the evening worthwhile - enters rachelle ferrell who until then nobody over here had on the map - and she smoked the place! (with a little bit help from an illustrious 'backing' band including george duke).

* i didn't like the lex efx though - and i still don't! (in defence of the sound engineer or in mitigation of his deserved penalty, it should be noted that the track on the cd was done direct-to-2trk if i recall correctly - meaning dat at the time) :-)



p.s. and no, i'm just about 6-foot-1
Old 2nd July 2020
  #1385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
i find things which move me mostly ouside youtube aka when mixing live - nevertheless, here's a link to a song which moved me a lot* close to 30 years ago:



context matters: i went to the montreux jazz festival to hear anita baker in the early nineties (and to mix monitors on a few shows) - george duke then opened up the evening saying that for some reason anita baker couldn't make to zwitscherlandia but he'd be proud to introduce someone who he thought would make the evening worthwhile - enters rachelle ferrell who until then nobody over here had on the map - and she smoked the place! (with a little bit help from an illustrious 'backing' band including george duke).

* i didn't like the lex efx though - and i still don't! (in defence of the sound engineer or in mitigation of his deserved penalty, it should be noted that the track on the cd was done direct-to-2trk if i recall correctly - meaning dat at the time) :-)



p.s. and no, i'm just about 6-foot-1
Now see, what moves you to tears is a personal thing - I gave that track a good two and a half minutes before bailing - I was quickly becoming bored to tears. The mix was fine, I didn’t care whether it was dat or not, I just found a sameness that’s I often hear in these kinds of tracks - same chord reharmonizations, same vocal phrasing from beginning till end ( my end, anyway), and a lyric I couldn’t quite discern through the over embellishment.

Still, if it works for you, that’s all that matters - it’s “authentic” to you.
Old 2nd July 2020
  #1386
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TikkoRome's Avatar
Uhhhh... All analog gear? Just look at what they had to work with. Their mics are still the most sought after and emulated.
I'm currently using a Neumann U87 (1978) as my main mic, a Neve 1073 clone (ZP mod GAP Pre73) and 1073 UAD preamp modeling via Apollo Twin Duo, Id kill for that big ol RCA ribbon (everyone hear knows which one), and how many of us are running UAD/Waves tape emulation plugins or running audio through a TEAC to get as close as we can to a Studer or Ampex 2" tape?
Old 2nd July 2020
  #1387
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oh, and incase I need to say it out right, I'd say the 70s had the best sound. 50s had a great sound in some ways but it was still too dirty. 70s seems, to me, to be the right blend of analog color and cleaner recording plus advanced studio techniques built off of Brian Wilson, Beatles, and all that innovation prior.
[For the record, I wasn't born yet back then but I've studied a lot of old music]
Old 2nd July 2020
  #1388
Gear Maniac
 
drcmusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
i find things which move me mostly ouside youtube aka when mixing live - nevertheless, here's a link to a song which moved me a lot* close to 30 years ago:



context matters: i went to the montreux jazz festival to hear anita baker in the early nineties (and to mix monitors on a few shows) - george duke then opened up the evening saying that for some reason anita baker couldn't make to zwitscherlandia but he'd be proud to introduce someone who he thought would make the evening worthwhile - enters rachelle ferrell who until then nobody over here had on the map - and she smoked the place! (with a little bit help from an illustrious 'backing' band including george duke).

* i didn't like the lex efx though - and i still don't! (in defence of the sound engineer or in mitigation of his deserved penalty, it should be noted that the track on the cd was done direct-to-2trk if i recall correctly - meaning dat at the time) :-)



p.s. and no, i'm just about 6-foot-1
It's great to know what you like and what moves you. We are all different, no doubt.

For me this was an exceedingly overwrought 4+ minute musical prison. I needed to cleanse my ears with some Foo Fighters.
Old 2nd July 2020
  #1389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
Now see, what moves you to tears is a personal thing [. . .]
I loved Lesley Gore, but that thing with Johnny really messed her up. . .probably her microphone too. Why were vocal recordings so much better in the '50s? I don't hear it!


It's my party and I'll cry if I want to,

Ray H.

Old 2nd July 2020
  #1390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
Now see, what moves you to tears is a personal thing - I gave that track a good two and a half minutes before bailing - I was quickly becoming bored to tears. The mix was fine, I didn’t care whether it was dat or not, I just found a sameness that’s I often hear in these kinds of tracks - same chord reharmonizations, same vocal phrasing from beginning till end ( my end, anyway), and a lyric I couldn’t quite discern through the over embellishment.

Still, if it works for you, that’s all that matters - it’s “authentic” to you.
lol - the link was mostly meant as a hint that even great artists can produce terrible schmaltzy songs* but mostly to undercut ray's choice of bad taste so it saddens me a little to learn that your answer is dealing just with a minor aspect of what i was hoping we could start discussing (which is neither authenticity nor your repeated false attributions to it)...

* seriously now: would you have refused to mix monitors at one of the most famous european jazz (and rock) festivals if the alternative would have been to plunge into the balkan war?! - call me a coward but i preferred to occasionally work with people who, despite their poor aesthetic sense at the time, also made a bit of art on the side, from little feat (or did they play a year before?) to george duke to miles davis and quincy jones to said rachelle ferrell...

Quote:
Originally Posted by drcmusic View Post
It's great to know what you like and what moves you. We are all different, no doubt.

For me this was an exceedingly overwrought 4+ minute musical prison. I needed to cleanse my ears with some Foo Fighters.
can you guys read, understand irony and interpret things?! context matters... (see also above in my answer to sharp) - but if it gives you comfort: i since then have been touring with saxon, maiden, anthrax, queensryche etc., to name just a few of the shredders you are possibly more familiar with! (speaking of the foo fighters and more precisely taylor hawkings: i personally was responsible for kicking him out as a paiste artist 'cause he behaved as an idiot!)
Old 2nd July 2020
  #1391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TikkoRome View Post
... how many of us are running UAD/Waves tape emulation plugins or running audio through a TEAC to get as close as we can to a Studer or Ampex 2" tape?
I'd be willing to bet that most people seeking the Studer or Ampex sound have no idea what it actually is. Actually, to me a couple of the most attractive and distinctive "vintage" sonic imprints were the sounds of the early Fairlight and Apogee converters. Why isn't anyone trying to emulate that?
Old 2nd July 2020
  #1392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TikkoRome View Post
oh, and incase I need to say it out right, I'd say the 70s had the best sound. 50s had a great sound in some ways but it was still too dirty. 70s seems, to me, to be the right blend of analog color and cleaner recording plus advanced studio techniques built off of Brian Wilson, Beatles, and all that innovation prior.
[For the record, I wasn't born yet back then but I've studied a lot of old music]
Well, I was born then - my first lp was “meet the beatles” which my mom handed me in the back seat of our 62 ford falcon (I’ll never forget the moment)on my 7th birthday.

From there, I bought mostly rock music lp’s throughout my high school years (71 -75) - I thought rock records sounded great; limited dynamic range, bass you could easily hear since the first harmonic of the low e string was prominent and right around 80hz, and a uniform loudness that made copying to cassette tapes easy.

Then I became interested in jazz and began to notice bass drop outs, warbly piano and surface noise. It got much worse when I discovered classical music - oh my, soft passages that were riddled with noise and again, all that wow and flutter. And where’s the bass!!!!

In 1983, I heard my first digital recording, in 85, I played keys on an album recorded on a digital multitrack (32 tracks Iirc), and then got my first CD player in 1987 - and never looked back.

Modern recording is so good, people end up arguing about its lack of limitations, which is essentially what you’re doing

It’s wonderful that you can control that wonder full analog sound - in well chosen amounts and on the right material, it’s great, but there’s more to recording than rock music, much more, and digital processes allow for an unlimited pallet of sound exploration.

Last edited by Sharp11; 3rd July 2020 at 03:46 AM..
Old 2nd July 2020
  #1393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Communication involves listening as well as making statements. I think you can only learn communication by performing live with audience feedback. I've spoken with a lot of artists about how they got started. The common denominator has been performing live on-stage as an unknown. In most cases they began performing other people's music and then worked their own in keeping what communicated and learning from what didn't.
Thanks for the recapitulation. I’ve really tried to let this seep beyond the analytical part of my brain over the past few days. Yet, I still struggle with it as an experienced pro musician [player and vocalist].

Not discounting the vocalists with whom you have spoken - but I really do have a quite different perspective.

Doing live on-stage entertainment is definitely a requirement for being great at live on-stage entertainment. Been there; I get that. But a critical requirement toward being a great recording-ready vocalist?

I’m just not getting that - especially when considering the many amazing 'nobody vocalists’ I’ve met over the years who didn’t have such experience.

---

To move beyond 'nobody vocalists' and make the discussion more tangible. . .

What exactly are the best of those from, say, the 'American Idol / Got Talent' kind of shows missing? Has no one emerged from YouTube that would meet your 'great vocalist' objectives as a recordist/producer?

I'm not a TV watcher [I've never seen those shows], but I was under the impression that Carrie Underwood was fairly inexperienced. Yet the success she has had since seems entirely justifiable to me. . .and not because she is pretty.

If Carrie Underwood is not the closest dart, please throw in another you believe is better. . .but still a miss to help with the explanations.

I really do want to understand your position in more concrete terms. Currently, I am assuming that I am missing something? I just honestly don't know what that is.


Many thanks,

Ray H.

Not just for @ Bob Olhsson . I am truly glad to hear anyone's thoughts on this issue.


Old 2nd July 2020
  #1394
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OK what other Periods/Types of Vocal music, are obviously inferior to Good Ol Fifties Music?

Bach/Beethovern/Poochini/Stephen Foster (you know the Guy who did that Nat/Natalie Duet)?

You guys are slackn'.and I ain't just Yakin'.
(Boy do I have The Seeds, of another "Bad" Rap song here)
Chris
Old 2nd July 2020
  #1395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayHeath View Post
Thanks for the recapitulation. I’ve really tried to let this seep beyond the analytical part of my brain over the past few days. Yet, I still struggle with it as an experienced pro musician [player and vocalist].

Not discounting the vocalists with whom you have spoken - but I really do have a quite different perspective.

Doing live on-stage entertainment is definitely a requirement for being great at live on-stage entertainment. Been there; I get that. But a critical requirement toward being a great recording-ready vocalist?

I’m just not getting that - especially when considering the many amazing 'nobody vocalists’ I’ve met over the years who didn’t have such experience.

---

To move beyond 'nobody vocalists' and make the discussion more tangible. . .

What exactly are the best of those from, say, the 'American Idol / Got Talent' kind of shows missing? Has no one emerged from YouTube that would meet your 'great vocalist' objectives as a recordist/producer?

I'm not a TV watcher [I've never seen those shows], but I was under the impression that Carrie Underwood was fairly inexperienced. Yet the success she has had since seems entirely justifiable to me. . .and not because she is pretty.

If Carrie Underwood is not the closest dart, please throw in another you believe is better. . .but still a miss to help with the explanations.

I really do want to understand your position in more concrete terms. Currently, I am assuming that I am missing something? I just honestly don't know what that is.


Many thanks,

Ray H.

Not just for @ Bob Olhsson . I am truly glad to hear anyones thoughts on this issue.


My "Middleschool Muse" (called Jr. High then) was Terri Nunn (Berlin).

We each had mutual Crushes on each other, but were too shy to express it to each other. Only found out later at Samohi from two of her close friends. So we never rode that Metro together, and no more words either.
Chris
Old 2nd July 2020
  #1396
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TikkoRome View Post
Uhhhh... All analog gear? Just look at what they had to work with. Their mics are still the most sought after and emulated.

I'm currently using a Neumann U87 (1978) as my main mic,
well 1978 is in the past so I guess it "counts" as what they had to work with in the 50's

Meanwhile, the "history of audio" continues to be like an episode of Xena, Warrior Princess - where she goes and fights in the Trojan War, (1200 BC) and on the way home, she runs into Julius Caesar (100 BC)

Quote:
a Neve 1073
introduced in 1970

Quote:
clone (ZP mod GAP Pre73)
not really a "clone" - and built in the 21st Century

Quote:
and how many of us are running UAD/Waves tape emulation plugins or running audio through a TEAC to get as close as we can to a Studer or Ampex 2" tape
No 2" tape in the 1950's. Studer sold a couple of machines in the 50's but their first multi-track deck was in 1964

I own a TEAC (70's). But if I wanted to get "close" to a Studer, I would probably look elsewhere. Anyway, it doesn't matter, it's "old" and it's "analog" so it's all the same from our point of view in 2020.

Quote:
70s seems, to me, to be the right blend of analog color and cleaner recording plus advanced studio techniques ...
so they moved from "dirty" to "cleaner" and you like it better, but you draw the line somewhere? Do you think studio techniques stopped "advancing", or did you just stop liking them?
Old 2nd July 2020
  #1397
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

From Wikipedia: "Carrie Marie Underwood was born on March 10, 1983,[2][3] in Muskogee, Oklahoma, to Carole (née Shatswell) and Steve Underwood.[4] She has two older sisters, Shanna and Stephanie,[5] and was raised on her parents' farm in the nearby rural town of Checotah.[6] Her father worked in a paper mill while her mother taught elementary school.[7] During her childhood, Underwood performed at Robbins Memorial Talent Show, and sang at her local church, First Free Will Baptist Church. She later sang for local events in Checotah, including Old Settler's Day and the Lion's Club.[8]
A local admirer arranged for her to go to Nashville when she was 14 to audition for Capitol Records.[9] In 1996, Capitol Records was preparing a contract for Underwood but canceled it when company management changed."
Old 2nd July 2020
  #1398
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robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
so they moved from "dirty" to "cleaner" and you like it better, but you draw the line somewhere? Do you think studio techniques stopped "advancing", or did you just stop liking them?
I agree there was a magic "something" in some 70s recordings - maybe a confluence of where music was at with the ongoing perfection of multi-track tape plus big consoles and really talented producers. Not rock, but I think of Creed Taylor's work as being the pinnacle of that time. Also the stuff done at Caribou.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #1399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
From Wikipedia: "Carrie Marie Underwood was [. . .]
A local admirer arranged for her to go to Nashville when she was 14 to audition for Capitol Records.[9] In 1996, Capitol Records was preparing a contract for Underwood but canceled it when company management changed."
Thanks Bob, Does that all indicate an appropriate level of experience. . .that you would have seen her as top talent worthy of being an exception to the’50s were so much better rule - that some have expressed?

Is she an exception to you own previous posts, or an example of them in action? Or would you classify her case in some other way?


Much appreciation,

Ray H.


Edit: anyone else want to throw in a thought or two?
Old 3rd July 2020
  #1400
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Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

I don't think she's an exception at all. She's pretty typical.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #1401
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And typically pretty too... (20 years away from my Demographic though)
Hard to believe it's been around 15 years, since she won Idol.
Chris
Old 3rd July 2020
  #1402
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Sharp11's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
I agree there was a magic "something" in some 70s recordings - maybe a confluence of where music was at with the ongoing perfection of multi-track tape plus big consoles and really talented producers. Not rock, but I think of Creed Taylor's work as being the pinnacle of that time. Also the stuff done at Caribou.
The mid to late 70's is the home of yacht rock - some very expensive music was made in some very high end studios, with unlimited budgets. When i worked at the old Warner Brothers studios in North Hollywood in 1985, I got a look at some of the budgets, the drug budgets alone would've bought you a nice house.

If you couldn't make a great record after a year or two of that, you probably were going to be a record company tax write off.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #1403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
I don't think she's an exception at all. She's pretty typical.
Thanks much, Bob. That is helpful. There is still something I'm not getting nor yet able to buy into.

I still don't see substantial live on-stage experience [or two way communication] as a requirement for vocalists to make such strong connections. . .any more than I think it was important for Vincent Van Gogh to two-way communicate with his audience before he could paint Starry Night? But maybe Don McLean was wrong? [1]

Talent that strongly connects with great tunes is where I find compelling value [and authenticity, if that matters beyond my own mind and heart]. Such connections are pretty rare for me regardless of genre or specific vocalist. Most recorded tunes - even those by vocalists you and I would both agree are great - are not appealing to me in the least.

Moving on - although, I wouldn't put Carrie up against Mirella Freni to do Mimi in La Bohème, I thought she did a pretty mean Before He Cheats. . .badder [in a good way] than I would have expected from Mirella, or Julie London. . .or even Doris Day.

I hear vocalists similar to how I hear unique instruments with unique players. Carrie seems a pretty good instrument for that tune - and for certain other tunes [e.g., Jesus, Take the Wheel]. It is like she owns them. That is what my ears and heart tell me.

Trying to play a part written for a distorted electric guitar on my gorgeous sounding Yamaha GC82S nylon string often enough does not work out. The cranked Marshall is 'prettier' for the application.

Similarly, Rickie Lee Jones had a kind of a reedy, bratty sound that may not fit great jazz standards from the GAS, but - to me - excelled with Chuck E's in Love. . .a great tune she clearly owns.



I also wouldn't want to replace Mirella Freni in the 1972 recording of La Bohème with any '50s pop singer mentioned in this thread. . .and don't expect any of them would be up to it. On the other extreme, we can move the discussion to more contemporary genres, but I suspect Carrie and Rickie are sufficient examples.

In summary, aesthetic quality seems much more about selecting great tunes [great in the ear of the beholder, anyway] and talent that can truly connect with and own those tunes - especially in ways that others cannot. Two-way communication isn't yet registering as a prerequisite to those connections.


Kind regard,

Ray H.

[1] My eyes blurred with moisture when I first finally saw that wonderful painting. . .emotional, breathtaking, beautiful! If I hadn't been in public, I would have sat down there and cried like a little girl.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #1404
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Virtually all my favorite Singers are Storytellers-Not based on Pyrotechnics. The typical Idol or Voice winner is at least moderately Anathema to me.
I would certainly include an Operatic Legend like Freni on a "Singer's Singer" A list BTW. Although my heart belongs to Callas!
Chris
Old 3rd July 2020
  #1405
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Sharp11's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayHeath View Post
Similarly, Rickie Lee Jones had a kind of a reedy, bratty sound that may not fit great jazz standards from the GAS, but - to me - excelled with Chuck E's in Love. . .a great tune she clearly owns.
.
Steve Gadd’s drum break is almost as famous as the song
Old 3rd July 2020
  #1406
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nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
Steve Gadd’s drum break is almost as famous as the song
No doubt his playing pushed sales, I bought that LP when it first came out mainly because it had very high marks in the Audio/playing areas..Many drummers have videos on Gadd's parts..
If you hadn't seen his Zildjian tribute DVD yet its VERY good for many reasons..
Old 3rd July 2020
  #1407
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Yea, yea. I don't disagree with respect to sales to drummers, at least - but. . .

I do wonder how the album would have sold had it instead been released by Pat Boone, even with Steve Gadd playing drums?

And was 1979 already Pat's post-rock period?


I lose track of time,

Ray H.


Not looking for another drum war, just a bit of fun. I agree, Michael: Steve added spark to the record. No argument.

Chris: Which '50s crooner would have been the best mate for Chuck E?
Old 3rd July 2020
  #1408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayHeath View Post
Yea, yea. I don't disagree with respect to sales to drummers, at least - but. . .
Wait, wait... drummers have enough money to buy records?
--scott
Old 3rd July 2020
  #1409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
Steve Gadd’s drum break is almost as famous as the song

Quote:
Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio View Post
No doubt his playing pushed sales, I bought that LP when it first came out mainly because it had very high marks in the Audio/playing areas..Many drummers have videos on Gadd's parts..
If you hadn't seen his Zildjian tribute DVD yet its VERY good for many reasons..
Ditto with Bernard Purdie's work on Steely Dan's Gaucho. I've been trying to master that damn shuffle for 20 years, but my left hand won't quite follow my brain.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #1410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kludgeaudio View Post
Wait, wait... drummers have enough money to buy records?
--scott
If the band is sensible enough to pay their gig money into a trust fund, so they don't spend it all on candy and comics.
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