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Looking for detailed, analytical Headphones!
Old 2nd May 2020
  #1
Looking for detailed, analytical Headphones!

So in the 7509 thread I vented out my frustrations on how there's virtually NOTHING that compares because for almost every pair I've tried in comparison to my 7509's, I've been extremely disappointed.

Well as luck would have it, I found TWO pairs on eBay that I bought immediately and they just need new ear pads and a headband.

I live in an apartment. I've got 6 keyboards that I use exclusively for sequencing and making trance and chill out music. And because I can't use speakers very often, I need headphones that not only give me the accuracy I need to mix, edit, record, etc, but sound quality out of the box is non-negotiable. I don't give a rip how accurate they are.

I've got a budget of $300.

I was almost gonna pull the trigger on the Focal Listen Pro's until I came across the Austrian Audio HI-X55.

Now I'm wondering if there's anything else out there that I should maybe consider.

I'd get the HD600's, used but they're open back. I don't want open back.

But I'm looking for something that sounds like the HD600's. I remember hearing them years ago...Anyone remember The Good Guys in California?!

Unbelievable sound!

I'd get the HD820's if I could with the matching headphone amp, but that's a $5000 bundle and with my credit, even the payment option is out of the question.
$100 a month wouldn't been a no-brainer for me!

I almost feel like I can blindly trust Focal because they make some of the absolute best speakers and monitors I've ever heard in my life.

But the mid-range is almost too much of a concern for me to go in ANY direction.

Mid-Range. - MUST. BE. RECESSED.
Deep bass is also a MUST.

NOT like the ATH-M70x where the clarity is incredible. Smooth, lush sound, but recessed bass?! REALLY?! That REALLY pissed me off! I'd have them right now if the bass wasn't recessed!

The DT770's sound like absolute ****...bland and boring as hell and the power rating is WEAK!

The 7506's, 7510's, Sennheiser HD 280 Pro's, etc. are some of the worst headphones in existence, IMO.

The Sony MDR-V600, V900, 7509, CD900ST were WAYYYY better!

They're still making the CD900ST and I'm seriously considering them...

But I want something better! Even if it's used.

Sennheiser HD265's maybe?

What are the most detailed/analytical headphones you've heard or own?
Old 2nd May 2020
  #2
Gear Addict
 
gransonik's Avatar
 

You should give the new Mackie MC-350 a try. Very balanced and natural sound, best tuning i've heard in headphones in a long time. Only downside is that it can be a bit too sibliant compared to my speakers. You won't find better for 199$. I also tried the HI-X55 and while it's technicalities are impressive, i didn't like the tuning, it's too colored.
Old 2nd May 2020
  #3
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biksonije's Avatar
 

From all the headphones you have mentioned I don't see AKGs. Furthermore, I see Beyerdynamic's are not getting any love from your part. Are they too weak, too "silent"? Well, for such headphones you'll need an Amp. All of those 250 Ohm headphones are in pro level. Maybe I am biased here but whole my life I have been using AKGs. Lately, as of last year, I bought also DT990. They are amazing! I know, you'd say weak. I say great! Try get an amp for them. Borrow if you can and try on your rig. Or see if you can listen to a few of them in a store.
Old 3rd May 2020 | Show parent
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by gransonik View Post
You should give the new Mackie MC-350 a try. Very balanced and natural sound, best tuning i've heard in headphones in a long time. Only downside is that it can be a bit too sibliant compared to my speakers. You won't find better for 199$. I also tried the HI-X55 and while it's technicalities are impressive, i didn't like the tuning, it's too colored.
I feel like I'm gonna go into a rant, so please bear with me for a moment.

So I looked at the Mackie headphones, literally ready to buy them as soon as I saw them after your raving review. Especially at the price point! WHOA!

Then I saw the Frequency Response....NO. LOL
I know they'll sound like absolute sh** at 20-20Khz.
EVERY pair of headphones I have ever put on my head with that frequency response sounded like sh** because there's ZERO headroom.

So this is a headphone I have to listen to at the store, before I even CONSIDER them.
If they're really as good as you say they are, despite the 20-20Khz frequency response, I'm gonna be shocked.
Headroom for me is NON-NEGOTIABLE. It is THE most crucial aspect that distinguishes a GREAT sounding pair like my 7509's from a really BAD sounding pair.

There's a REASON my 7509's have become THE headphones by which I judge all others and going by specs alone, it's obvious why!

We're not talking about speakers that give you sound in wide open area where the frequency response isn't all that important and you can't even remotely determine how good a speaker sounds on paper, much less on price.

In headphones, you absolutely can and I've been able to pinpoint to a T why I absolutely HATE certain headphones and be able to use that against other headphone I consider.

As a result, I have found that specs are EVERYTHING in headphones, with VERY RARE exceptions.
The Mackie's could very well be one of those exceptions. And I hope they are! I'd LOVE to give them a fair chance!
Given my disapponting experience with the Sony 7510's because I went by specs is why I asked you guys about Analytical Headphones.

[RANT BELOW]
And to say that the 7510's disappointed me is the biggest understatement I've ever made. The HUGE, UGLY boost in mid-range upset me so much I literally THREW them on my bed out of anger. I was BEYOND disgusted.

They were NOTHING like I imagined them to be, ESPECIALLY with a fantastic frequency response a specs very similar to my beloved 7509's!

I'm utterly shocked and infuriated at Sony for even having the AUDACITY to put these in the same category as my 7509's!
THEY ARE 7506 REPLACEMENTS, SONY, NOT THE 7509's!
GET IT RIGHT FOR F** SAKE!
I feel like they gave us a big F** YOU to us 7509 owners with the 7510's!
([/ RANT])

Anyways, once I know what the Frequency Response is to see how much headroom I get, I then look at the rest. The balance of Impedance and Power is the second absolute most important that.

In the case of the DT770's...This could NOT be more true. A WEAK 100mA power rating on a LOW Impedance driver is a disaster in sound quality. The 250 Ohm REQUIRES a headphone amp and that's an expense I want to avoid right now.
Old 3rd May 2020 | Show parent
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by biksonije View Post
From all the headphones you have mentioned I don't see AKGs. Furthermore, I see Beyerdynamic's are not getting any love from your part. Are they too weak, too "silent"? Well, for such headphones you'll need an Amp. All of those 250 Ohm headphones are in pro level. Maybe I am biased here but whole my life I have been using AKGs. Lately, as of last year, I bought also DT990. They are amazing! I know, you'd say weak. I say great! Try get an amp for them. Borrow if you can and try on your rig. Or see if you can listen to a few of them in a store.
biksonije,

I specifically stated that I DO NOT want open back headphones. The DT990s are open back...

And as INCREDIBLE as they are, the reasons are two fold:

1) the sound bleeds out (THE deal breaker)
2) a quality headphone amp is MANDATORY to even GET anything out of them because of the high impedance ratings and that'll add HUNDREDS more to the cost for a decent quality amp.

I had the Sony MDR-SA3000 headphones years ago and they were beautiful!
But I couldn't get anything out of them and knowing I needed a headphone amp and years go by never getting one, what did I do?

I gave them away....I paid a LOT for them and couldn't even use them because I didn't even understand WHAT open back headphones were at the time...

Now that I know, I avoid them at ALL costs because of those two factors above. It's NOT something I want to deal with nor something I'm even remotely interested in at this time.

I'd get the HD600's in a heartbeat if I wanted open back headphones..

Also, I have looked at AKG and I'll admit that I don't have much experience with them. The reason? Most headphones I have tried by them have been incredibly uncomfottable to wear, especially with the K240 and K271's.

That said, I'd love to give the closed back models a fair chance, but I have to hear them first and with this lockdown in California and our governor being a defiant little b*tch, that's not a very easy thing to do right now...
Old 3rd May 2020
  #6
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Piedpiper's Avatar
No longer made but the Denon AH-D2000 may be exactly what you're looking for. They're frequency response is like a ruler tipped up at the bottom with an appropriate recessed upper mids and only a touch of emphasis in the highs. They are closed backed, super comfortable, very easy to drive, and they can generally be gotten used in excellent condition for under $300.
Old 3rd May 2020
  #7
I don't know if I'd use the word 'analytical'. But anything Grado sounds quite detailed and balanced, but how music should sound. IMHO.
Old 3rd May 2020 | Show parent
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred View Post
I don't know if I'd use the word 'analytical'. But anything Grado sounds quite detailed and balanced, but how music should sound. IMHO.
I've been SERIOUSLY considering Grado since I started on this quest...The SR60's are some of THE BEST headphones I have EVER heard for the money, but that was at a high end audio shop with high quality music on it.

In most cases, when I plug a pair of headphones that sound great everywhere else, like Grado's, Shure's (I have a pair of 840's which I LOVE for Logic), name the brand and model.... into my Triton Extreme 88 or my OASYS 88, that amazing sound quality literally DROPS to NOTHING.

For whatever reason, the signal path is SO different on these keyboards, that I literally can not just use anything off the shelf and expect it to sound great after hearing them in the shop.

The Beyer DT770's at 80 ohms would be amazing when I'm working in a DAW environment. MOST headphones with a huge frequency response like the DT770's would be ridiculously good. But on my keyboards, they are the weakest, blandest sounding piece of sh*t headphones I've ever heard.

I just realized that this is EXACTLY WHY I've grown to HATE certain models of headphones, like the DT770's!

And it's EXACTLY why I CANNOT mix with my Shure 840's on my keyboards. AT ALL. They sound AMAZING with my interface running Logic on my Mac Pro and are some of THE most incredible sounding, accurate headphones I've ever owned. And in this particular case, my 7509's compliment my Shure's beautifully! They literally sound like brand new headphones every time I switch over and I am like HOLY CRAP! Every. Single Time.

Foe my 7509's to be even BETTER than they are when I'm mixing on my Shure's is mind blowing! The Shure's are THAT good!

BUT! The SECOND I plug those Shure's into my Triton or OASYS, that accuracy and amazing sound is GONE. They sound like sh*t. It's like the sound has completely thinned out and now I get this muddy, disgusting midrange with OK bass and decent highs and all that beautiful crisp, beautiful sound has gone elsewhere.

And the reason could very well be the weak and crapy headphone output that they put into these keyboards. From the Trinity to the Triton to the OASYS.....Of which I have ALL 3. I have TWO Trinity V3 Pro X's that I adore! I LOVE that silky, LUSH 90's sound of the Trinity!

The OASYS is actually a LOT more forgiving of the Shure's because the signal path on that thing is RIDICULOUS. Like my 7509's, that sound the OASYS produces does NOT exist anywhere else! But the Shure's are impossible to mix with when plugged into my OASYS. I've tried and the results were awful. Messy, muddy, weak in the bass, etc...so man things sound off....

And given the sheer POWER at a ridiculous 3000mW on these cans with that frequency response AND the DEEP bass like you've got SUBS in your ears and the crisp highs....My GOD! There's NOTHING like them! It's no wonder they sound SO GOOD on my keyboards as well as everywhere else!

This is why specs are SO important to me.

So Grado would be a GREAT choice, but that would also require a headphone amp, and GOOD ones are several hundred dollars because I need a GOOD power rating to at least match the power of my 7509's. And I think the vast majority, if not ALL of their models are an open back design as well...

Piedpiper, I'll have to look up those Denons!
I'm very intrigued you mentioned these!

Ah, well...the quest continues.....

Keep the responses coming! I really appreciate the help, here!
Old 3rd May 2020
  #9
Even the cheap ones sound nice using my iphone or pc laptop stock outs.
Old 3rd May 2020
  #10
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Piedpiper's Avatar
The Grados are nice in their way, but their frequency response is not accurate at all, unfortunately, and tend towards bright and low bass shy.
Old 3rd May 2020
  #11
IME open ear headphones are never thick in the lows. There are different compromises with open and closed; it seems most pros have a couple pairs for that reason.
Old 4th May 2020 | Show parent
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred View Post
IME open ear headphones are never thick in the lows. There are different compromises with open and closed; it seems most pros have a couple pairs for that reason.
Agreed! I've got a couple of pairs myself, none of which are open back for reasons I mentioned in an earlier post, I'm digging deeper than ever before and I've come across a very informative video on frequency response curves and this guy explained them with sound examples and I was able to pinpoint to a T what I want in a pair of headphones...so let me clarify this even further.

1. LOW END
Low end MUST be DEEP and OBVIOUS. My drums are incredibly BASS HEAVY in some tracks and I go as far as turning the kick drum to the key the track is in. The result is ASTOUNDING to say the least! Like, HOLY CRAP! lol It's OK if its boomy. My 7509's are THE GREATEST headphones in this aspect! Compared to my V900's, there's ZERO comparison. The V900's are a but rolled off and more mid-forward, but it's a very subtle difference because the high end is identical between the two. It's really interesting to experience this to greater lengths than I've done before.

2. MID-RANGE:
My 7510's are mid-emphasized, as in everything else is rolled off to give it a more mid-range-y sound. Disgusting. It's muddy, awful and just down right BLOATED! YUCK! The bass is still there, and so are the highs but man, that mid is so emphasized, I want to hurl! lol

To my absolute SHOCK, having said that, Mid-FORWARD is actually what I'm looking for! And after hearing a piano sample in this video, where it peaks at 3 - 5khz, rather than being recessed, the brightness of the piano is somehow directly affected by the mid frequencies in this range. Otherwise, it sounds muffled.

That absolutely blew my mind!

But now that I think about, it's TRUE! Because when I'm adjust the EQ's, this is the range that I almost ALWAYS turn upwards! 3.2Khz to 5.7Khz!

The Master EQ on my Triton and OASYS with every Combi or Sequence I'm working on, the mids are almost ALWAYS at 5.7Khz at a 0.5 width in the Q so I can cover the other frequencies around it.

Interestingly enough, Mid-BASS seems to be where my biggest concern is, where it's recessed at 200-500hz actually taking OUT the muddiness. This range is THE most important factor in how I need the headphones to sound. And I feel like THIS is where my 7510's also have an emphasis on and why they sound like absolute sh*t...

3. HIGH END
Headphones that peak at 5.3khz sound like absolute sh*t.
Headphones that peak at 8Khz are INCREDIBLE!
Period. End of story.

This could result in a sibilant kind of sound, but this is EXACTLY what makes my 7509's sound SO great!

THIS is what I need! If I have a peak at 8khz in the highs, a peak at 60 - 100hz and recessed at 200-500hz, that's the sound I'm looking for!

From there, I'll be able to adjust accordingly when I'm at my keyboards....I just have no clue where to find this info or the measurement graphs on headphones to compare?

The quest continues.....
Old 4th May 2020 | Show parent
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper View Post
The Grados are nice in their way, but their frequency response is not accurate at all, unfortunately, and tend towards bright and low bass shy.
I've heard that as well...but that's also the sound that made them so famous with headphone enthusiasts....Unusable for me, though, unfortunately, as they're also ALL open back...
Old 4th May 2020
  #14
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Piedpiper's Avatar
...and not the most comfortable for long listening.
Old 5th May 2020 | Show parent
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper View Post
...and not the most comfortable for long listening.
exactly...
Old 5th May 2020
  #16
Gear Head
Why not stick with your pair of 7509s if they tick all the right boxes for you? Sounds like you've found your Cinderella's slipper.
Old 5th May 2020
  #17
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MandoBastardo's Avatar
Perhaps consider the Aurorus Australis - it's a bit boutique, but one of the few closed phones with decent tonal balance and detail. Not cheap tho.

There's the Neuman NDH 20, but pricey. When I auditioned them, were preferable to the Focal Spirit Pro. But... pricey... and needs calibration/correction.

For the cost, hard to beat the 600/650 with correction like Sonarworks or Morphit - too bad your phones must be closed.
Old 5th May 2020 | Show parent
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoodProduct View Post
Why not stick with your pair of 7509s if they tick all the right boxes for you? Sounds like you've found your Cinderella's slipper.
This is a brilliant question, actually. I'm really glad you asked me this! So thank you!

Seriously.

And here's the answer:

I am! Absolutely I am! And I was LUCKY to have found TWO Pairs on eBay that I immediately ordered because I can't even find these anymore!

HOWEVER, I'm on a quest, now.....Given my undying love for the 7509's as THE de facto standard for my music, I really want to find a second pair (or two) for my keyboards that I can cross reference with and this is a BIG challenge for me, given my most recent experience with the MDR-7510's I got last month.

They're gonna be headphones I take with me on the go as well, like I did with my 7509's....Mainly because I can't live without my 7509's and I can't risk anything happening to them, given how hard they are to find, now.

And in the process of trouble shooting my old pair that thinned out after I changed the wiring, caused by replacing the worn out headband after 12 years, the right driver completely died in the end...It was on its last legs, anyways...But WOW, I wasn't expecting it to just DIE...lol

So that led me on this quest to find a new set altogether, after finding two perfectly working 7509's that just need new pads...THANK GOD for that!

Now, I've been looking at the newest Sennheiser HD-569 headphones for $200 and the Yamaha HPH-MT8's...but I need to see the measurement graphs on them to compare to my 7509's and see how they fare in comparison...to get SOME idea of how they will sound....

I have to see where it the frequencies are recessed and where they are peaked at.

If you look at the measurement graph of the 7509's they look TERRIBLE on paper! I mean, the roll off's in the bass look WORSE than the piece of crap 7506's! lol Seriously!! BUT! That graph is EXACTLY why they sound the way they do!

Kind of like getting a fast car on a budget...you know? Engine size, Horsepower and Torque are gonna be THE most important factors, followed by the 0-60 timings.

So equate the fast car requirements to Frequency Response, mA Power Ratings and Impedance, and then the Measurement Graphs to get an idea of how it'll sound...

I'm also looking at higher end models, like the Austrian Audio's, and the Focal's...

And honestly, it's really coming down to the Sennheiser HD 569's and the Focal's at this point....

But I need more info, evaluations, etc to REALLY make an informed decision, here....I'm NEVER jumping on another pair of headphones like I did with the 7510's, thinking they'd be better than my 7509's.

THAT was a disaster! lol I was SO angry when I tried them because I had such high expectations....

But with that said, I'm grateful it happened because it led me on this quest to actually make an informed decision this time...
Old 5th May 2020 | Show parent
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandoBastardo View Post
Perhaps consider the Aurorus Australis - it's a bit boutique, but one of the few closed phones with decent tonal balance and detail. Not cheap tho.

There's the Neuman NDH 20, but pricey. When I auditioned them, were preferable to the Focal Spirit Pro. But... pricey... and needs calibration/correction.

For the cost, hard to beat the 600/650 with correction like Sonarworks or Morphit - too bad your phones must be closed.
I know, man...The HD 600 or 650's would have been THE headphones for me, if they were NOT open back...I can NOT use open back because of the environment I'm in...The sound bleeds out and because I like them at higher volumes, the bleed through would be too much with people around...

Is there a CLOSED version of these made at all? Like the current HD 599 and 569? Or did they sound the way they do BECAUSE they're open back and they couldn't make a closed back version?

The Aurora's are WAY out of my price range and honestly, if I was gonna spend THAT much on headphones, I'd get the Focal Elegia's....Period...

I'll have to look into the NDH 20's! I didn't know NEUMANN made headphones! What the heck?! That's like Blue making headphones of which they have a whole line, now! This is nuts! lol How are so many MICROPHONE companies coming out with headphones?

Shure was the first to do it and my GOD! Did they freakin' NAIL. IT. IN! WOW!
I f**cking LOVE my 840's on Logic! They make my 7509's shine, as if they could NOT get any better! WOW!

I also saw the ADAM Headphones, too, but they look like an overpriced rebranded version of UltraSones tailored to their specifications....I mean when I saw that $500 price tag, I was like...WHOA! That's a bit much!

I've even heard the KRK KNS-8400's....those are really stupid and just gimmicky, IMO...lol Really...I mean I LOVE KRK as a company and I LOVE their older monitors to pieces and even had the VXT6's for 3.5 years before I sold them in 2011....I freaking LOVED those monitors! But their headphones are NOT that great....lol Cracks me up!
Old 5th May 2020
  #20
Gear Addict
 
MandoBastardo's Avatar
Yeah... if Sennheiser could make a closed version of the 600/650 that sounded as good... pretty sure they'd have done that by now. The Neuman NDH 20 is as close as it gets - helps that Sennheiser owns Neuman, so there's some headphone design expertise available, not just brand marketing.

There are some dedicated modders that have 3D printed their own cups for 650s and apparently don't suffer too much degradation. But not to be worn around people, unless you're going for the half coconut headgear look. ;-)

I haven't tried them, but the new and low cost AKG 371 might be promising, once modded or calibrated.
Old 6th May 2020
  #21
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Piedpiper's Avatar
Try those Denon AH-D2000s I mentioned above. For the price and all else you've said, I think you'll thank me.
Old 6th May 2020 | Show parent
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper View Post
Try those Denon AH-D2000s I mentioned above. For the price and all else you've said, I think you'll thank me.
OK. I'm trusting you, man! Holy sh*tballs! I just paid $388 for the plus Tax and Shipping for a NEW pair eBay! ONE search, and there they were!

NEW IN THE BOX!!! It's like they were right there waiting for me the whole time!

Here's the listing!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Denon-AH-D2...72.m2749.l2649

After reading about them, what got me really excited was the PEAK at 9Khz, DEEP bass, and dry, analytical sound, which is EXACTLY like my 7509's!

https://www.innerfidelity.com/images...D2000B2012.pdf

Plus the reviewer who posted this graph stated that these are perfect for studios because they're so neutral!

What amazes me on this graph is how FLAT it gets from 30hz to around 600hz and goes a little bit downwards. That's important because I did mention that I need it to be recessed at the mid-bass level and here's a downward flat response indicating that!

Here's the summary of what he said:

Quote:
Denon AH-D2000 ($349) - This is the best price/performance value in the line, and is among the best sounding headphones of any type at this price. Though somewhat dryer sounding then the more expensive Denons, to my ears it's slightly better sounding than the competing AKG-K550. When selecting between the two cans, I feel the K550 is a slightly better all-around headphone with a more durable build quality, better isolation, and a bit more bass punch, but if sound quality and clarity is paramount, then the D2000 has the edge. This is a very good entry-level audiophile and audio-pro mixing and mastering headphone. I highly recommend them, and they earn a spot on the Wall of Fame for best in class audio performance at this price.
Dude! If these are as GOOD as I think they're gonna be, I'm gonna owe it ALL to you after ordering these!

HOW DID YOU FREAKING KNOW!!

I was NOT expecting to pay THIS much, but man oh man, after the little research I did, WOW! I am MAD excited! I may have found the ultimate headphones!

I can't remember the last time I've been SO excited about a pair of headphones the way I was with my 7509's almost 20 years ago!

I almost feel like THESE are going to KILL my 7509's, now!!!

Um...did I just say that?!

OK...I'm shutting up, now!

I think I've said too much! LOL
Old 6th May 2020
  #23
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Piedpiper's Avatar
Glad you're happy. That peak at 9k is much less than the Beyers, for instance. But at that level, I think it serves to highlight sibilance issues without skewing the perspective too much. I think you'll continue to be. Keep us posted, of course.
Old 8th May 2020 | Show parent
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper View Post
Glad you're happy. That peak at 9k is much less than the Beyers, for instance. But at that level, I think it serves to highlight sibilance issues without skewing the perspective too much. I think you'll continue to be. Keep us posted, of course.
I got the Denons! They just came in today!

I'm honestly in a COMPLETE SHOCK right now, because I have never owned headphones of this quality before. The fact that the cable itself is STOCK to be of such high quality and is braided is mind-blowing!

The feel and weight of these are unlike ANYTHING I've ever laid my hands on! REAL leather pads and headband. Can EASILY be converted to and open back with some mods, which is amazing to say the least.

I put them on, and they FEEL heavier but they're SO comfortable, I could literally wear them ALL day! Then again, I did the same thing with my 7509's until they got a bit fatiguing and then I'd take them off and take a break for a bit.

These are BY FAR THE HIGHES END, MOST EXPENSIVE PAIR off Headphones I have EVER bought in my life! So let this be a factor in my first impressions of these as a disclaimer.

I've heard a sh*t ton of headphones in the past 20 years and the fact that I actually OWN a high end set, now is almost surreal to me....

So let's talk sound quality...

When I first plugged them in, the sound was WEAK....I think the power rating is nowhere NEAR my Sony 7509's, V900's or V600's for that matter. So I had to plug in a Soundcraft Compact 4 mixer and get the Triton connected to that and use the headphone output to get any decent volume out of it....

The headphone outputs on these keyboards are WEAK for whatever reason...I'm really baffled by this...I just don't get it or understand why...It's weird!

Anyways, once I did that, I was REALLY able to hear them at a GOOD volume level ...

So in a nutshell, this is FAR BEYOND ANYTHING I imagined them to be! I knew I was excited ordering these, but I was NOT expecting ANYTHING NEAR what I'm about to describe below! Like HOLY F***ING SH*TBALLS!

The BASS is SO DEEP, and so LOW, like when I say they BOOM, I F**ING MEAN IT! Imagine SUBS in your ears with a super FAST response and the bass itself being SO clean that you're like WHOA! These things PUMP!

The mids, however are a different story...They're almost NON-EXISTENT, because it's SO recessed and not just in the high and low mids, where a LOT headphones of emphasize on but its ALL across the spectrum....It's not even truly flat, either. It's so dry and neutral sounding as if all they did was turn up the bass and treble and brought down everything else to the point where it's somewhat thinned out as a result, giving you a very bright sound....

That's NOT a bad thing! I can EASILY get used to these and I will! But the fact that the mids are SO recessed all across the entire spectrum, almost makes me MISS having a bit more of a peak in the 250 - 1000Khz in the lower end and 3.2 - 5.7khz range in the high end...

And I can't even believe I'm saying this, but they're a bit TOO clean....That peak at 9Khz almost makes them TOO bright, as well....

But unlike my piece of sh*t sounding 7510's, I can HAPPILY get used to these!

Overall, I'm freaking MIND BLOWN that a pair of DYNAMIC headphones can sound like this and have DEEP BASS like what I just described!

THAT BASS IS UNBELIEVABLE!!!

For Trance, Electronic, Hip-Hop, New Age, etc, these truly are THE BEST headphones I have ever laid my hands on! Even for PIANO, I dare say because of not only the DEEP bass in the low notes of the piano sound, but that CLEAN, bright, neutral sound signature also allows the brightness to come through in ways I have NEVER heard before. And I'm hearing nuances, as a result, that are quite literally actually REDEFINING what I consider to be THE PERFECT sounding piano! A BRIGHT sound all across the range but with the DEEP bass of a WORLD CLASS concert grand where the brightness only comes in when you're playing really loudly and FAST!

I HAVE NEVER experienced that before in a pair of HEADPHONES!

So here's the BIGGEST QUESTION of them ALL:

Will these Denon's CLOBBER my 7509's?

To my absolute AMAZEMENT, in a nutshell, they ALREADY DO!

But, now I'm gonna have a new found appreciation for my Shure SRH-840's because the mid-range is much more forward, filling in for the Denons....

These are NOT headphones I will ever travel with, either. Because they're NOT designed to be a fun, listening headphone. They are just TOO neutral, and they're TOO CLEAN......Like they're SO dry and SO DEEP sounding at the same time.

They are NOT musical sounding...AT ALL...They are a MASTERING, REFERENCE Headphone, to say the least...PERIOD...

There's just NO other way I can describe these...

The mere fact that these are geared as HiFi Headphones really puzzles me, because these honestly should've been marketed as a PROFESSIONAL, REFERENCE Headphone for STUDIOS...NOT consumers....

These were flat out put in the WRONG market!

In fact, for the first time EVER in my life, that neutral sound is indicating to me EXACTLY where ALL the flaws are in my mixes, be it my Combis or Sequences on my Triton and OASYS and I now have a reference quality headphone for when I'm working in Logic....

And that reference point and neutrality is NOT something I've ever been able to pinpoint with my 7509's because they're almost too perfect sounding for me. In fact, it's why I've had such a difficult time even finding ANYTHING that ever truly compared....They're super accurate, and neutral in their own way, but my GOD!

They are NOT like the Denon's...IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE!

These are TRULY in their OWN league in every sense of the word, by comparison!

Like, HOLY CRAP!

And now between the Denon AH-D2000's, the Shure SRH-840 and the Sony MDR-7509 AND V900's, I have ALL my bases covered! Denon's for Reference, the Shure's for Mids, and the Sony's for overall Mixing.

And actually given how CLEAN and neutral the Denon's sound, the Shure's are NOT as mid-forward as I perceived them to be with my keyboards! Again, I can't even BELIEVE I'm sayin this, but those Shure's are gonna be PERFECT for TRACKING and laying down tracks on my Triton and OASYS!

WOW! Is ALL I can say! Just...WOW! I'm in a whole different world than I was yesterday with headphones!

I'm BEYOND stunned and this is definitely gonna take some getting used to!

I was expecting amazing quality, but what I experienced I honestly CAN NOT even describe! I am literally, point blank, in SHOCK by this experience because it's NOTHING like I was imagining it to be!

WOW!!!

Last edited by Aurelius Music; 8th May 2020 at 03:14 AM..
Old 12th May 2020 | Show parent
  #25
So I finally received my MDR-7509 headphones...BOTH pairs work and I was able to make an even more solid comparison between these and my Denon AH-D2000.

So in a nutshell, my 7509's are STILL king....They cover all the bases, beautifully and are supremely accurate...

The mid-range I was missing from the Denon AH-D2000's these deliver and are way more musical as a result, but still analytical, and without the reference quality that the Denon's have...

Upon mixing, I'm truly blown away and almost flabbergasted by how unbelievably accurate the Denon's are, compared to the 7509's just because of how much easier the flaws are to correct with my mixes.

They are NOT musical...AT ALL...So. they are not my daily drivers....and I would never use them as such, because that's NOT it's purpose, IMO....

This is something I will use temporarily when mixing and accomplishing the end result I want with my mixes and how I want it to sound....

Just like how some people have monitors that are just accurate and that's IT. They sound like sh*t and are not enjoyable to just "listen." Yamaha NS-10's are a prime example of this.

The Denon's are a bit like that, but that bass and that crisp, bright, analytical sound is truly in a league of its own....And when I say REFERENCE, I mean, TRUE MASTERING quality. They are not at all sibilant or fatiguing like my 7509's are after a while....This is a TRUE, AUDIOPHILE headphone that is designed for Studios, MUCH more so than the hifi market....

When I started mixing with the Denon's....I was able to really completely revamp certain Combis I had on my Triton Extreme to where the instruments that ware overpowered by too much bass in the drums and bass tracks were suddenly cleaned up and when I went back to my 7509's, the difference was night and day!

So now I'm in the process of remixing ALL my of Combis with the Denon's so my mixes sound better...And very soon I will start actually recording with these and and start incorporating my Korg Trinity's, my Roland Fantom and Juno-G into the mix with my Triton and OASYS...
Old 12th May 2020 | Show parent
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius Music View Post
So now I'm in the process of remixing ALL my of Combis with the Denon's so my mixes sound better...And very soon I will start actually recording with these and and start incorporating my Korg Trinity's, my Roland Fantom and Juno-G into the mix with my Triton and OASYS...
Congrats! You have the best of both worlds. Only thing better would be to release a recording series specifically for each phone. Tap the under-served Denon AH-D2000 peeps and the nearly extinct MDR-7509 users.

Many audiophile's never-reached goal is to recreate what the musician(s)/producer heard when mixing. Not when mastering tho - no one wants to hear that.

Since streaming is killing musician's income streams, maybe the future lucrative market is exclusive mixes for specific phones. Crazy? Sure. But that's not the point.

The point is to get Senn HD800, Focal Utopia, LCD-4 and Dennon AH-D2000 users to pay uber high-end prices for releases custom tailored to their particular flavor of high end phone. No one would spend $150 for a recording. And no spends $2k+ for phones. Or do they?

If the concept catches on, remember it started here with locked-down slutz.
Old 12th May 2020 | Show parent
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandoBastardo View Post
Congrats! You have the best of both worlds. Only thing better would be to release a recording series specifically for each phone. Tap the under-served Denon AH-D2000 peeps and the nearly extinct MDR-7509 users.

Many audiophile's never-reached goal is to recreate what the musician(s)/producer heard when mixing. Not when mastering tho - no one wants to hear that.

Since streaming is killing musician's income streams, maybe the future lucrative market is exclusive mixes for specific phones. Crazy? Sure. But that's not the point.

The point is to get Senn HD800, Focal Utopia, LCD-4 and Dennon AH-D2000 users to pay uber high-end prices for releases custom tailored to their particular flavor of high end phone. No one would spend $150 for a recording. And no spends $2k+ for phones. Or do they?

If the concept catches on, remember it started here with locked-down slutz.
Haha! But we're not talking about mixing in the box in Logic or ProTools, though!

My Korg's have a very distinct sound signature that makes a LOT of headphones sound like absolute sh*t. I have no clue why this is, but it's THE reason I stuck with the 7509's for almost 20 years and almost NOTHING compared, until now...

And I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious, but either way...creating different mixes for different headphones isn't even remotely what the intent was....Especially since I'm on my keyboards, banging out tracks and Combis 95% of the time, I needed my 7509 sound signature again after one side completely died on me.

I only use Logic to tie the keyboards together as one massive ensemble instrument where sequences from one Trinity is directly triggered from my Fantom and the Other Trinity is triggering custom patterns from my Juno-G and the two Trinity's are stacked up and linked in Logic with my OASYS along with the hundreds of soft synths and plugins I have with Logic provide additional sounds and sequences I can't get with my Korg's...

And I could spend DAYS on a single project in Logic because of this, which I do quite often....

GOOD headphones are paramount to even allowing that to happen. My Denon's allowed me to actually clean up my mixes on my keyboards and get rid of weird nuances that were created simply because I honestly thought it sounded fine until it didn't. It's not about having different mixes tailored to different headphones. It's THE EXACT SAME MIX on BOTH headphones where one gives me an overview of the sound (7509) and the other one allows me clean up the mix (Denon's) because of its reference quality analytical sound signature...

Plus who would pay $150 for mixes on a Triton, Trinity or OASYS for each headphone? That's just ludicrous! LOL!
Old 12th May 2020 | Show parent
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius Music View Post
And I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or serious...
Pretty sure it was the former... however...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius Music View Post
.. but either way...creating different mixes for different headphones isn't even remotely what the intent was....Especially since I'm on my keyboards, banging out tracks and Combis 95% of the time, I needed my 7509 sound signature again after one side completely died on me.
I know... but what if this was your chance to revolutionize the corporate mono-streaming-culture... or at least make mono great again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius Music View Post
...
It's not about having different mixes tailored to different headphones. It's THE EXACT SAME MIX on BOTH headphones where one gives me an overview of the sound (7509) and the other one allows me clean up the mix (Denon's) because of its reference quality analytical sound signature...
No... it's not the exact same mix. Even if it is. The whole premise on my hair-brained scam... er.. marketing plan is based on the unassailable uniqueness of each mix for each phone. I'm not saying you have to make several unlistenable mixes for Beats, but take Apple's money anyhow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurelius Music View Post
Plus who would pay $150 for mixes on a Triton, Trinity or OASYS for each headphone? That's just ludicrous! LOL!
Laugh it up. I have an acquaintance who sells $5,000 1 meter silver coax cables - can't make 'em fast enough. Never underestimate the insecure audiophile's appetite for the personal 'best'.

Personally tailored mixes for extreme amounts of money is the next logical step in personal audio.

Also... even Tesla offers a Ludicrous Mode. Why not you? Or me?
Old 12th May 2020
  #29
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uOpt's Avatar
To me, my DT 770 250 ohm is a very analytical competitor below $300 (and more so than the 80 ohm brother).
Old 14th May 2020 | Show parent
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by MandoBastardo View Post
Pretty sure it was the former...
WOW! So you WERE serious! OK! Where do a start? And how do I go about accomplishing this?

And CABLES, I can understand because I'm one of those who'd happily spend a boatload of money on uber expensive power cables, speaker cables, and cable risers if for no other reason than giving my audiophile system a fantastic polished look. Although in many cases, I can personally attest that higher quality cables CAN make a MASSIVE difference in your sound.

Zaolla back in the day made some of the most amazing quality cables I had ever heard in my life because they used solid silver connectors and locking RCA interconnects that I had never seen before and I have two 8-channel 1/4 inch TS - RCA snakes that I paid $480 for each one.

The quality of these cables CLOBBER ALL my Mogami cables and I hear a huge difference in my sound using them. And given the quality of my OASYS, they are a perfect match to bring out the kind of quality it delivers.

They have since completely changed their designs and I'm NOT a fan of this new design. I do like the braided look on some of the cables, but the connectors don't look as nice as the older designs they used to have....I'd much rather have Vovox, Canare, or Klotz or Cordial nowadays than Zaolla because of this change. Not to mention, raising their prices to the point where even I question whether or not it's truly worth the extra cost...

Now, to what EXTENT cables deliver a sonic difference and where one draws the line between legitimate differences and snake oil prices, I don't know.

But in my own personal experience, I've heard substantial differences in cables from speaker wires and cables to RCA, TRS and XLR cables, etc. Even upgrading a POWER cable, I can hear a difference. It could be a placebo effect, but I don't care. Placebo or not, I HEAR a difference and that's all that matters to me.

On the other hand, buying a super expensive high quality audiophile USB cable that costs hundreds or thousands of dollars for your DAC? THAT is questionable to me. Will it really make THAT much of a difference over a good higher quality USB at a fraction of the cost? Especially with a battery pack to boost the signal path? I'm the first to admit, probably not. Because it's a digital signal path that transmits DATA from one device to another. It's NOT an analog signal path where EVERYTHING matters down to the quality of the internal internal wiring and what type of solder is used.

In a digital signal path jitter is a crucial factor, but to what extent does it become snake oil? Again, I don't know and I'm not gonna knock it until I've tried it for myself which if money was no object, I'd love to try it out and see for myself. Until then, I'll leave that to the unbiased and legit expert reviewers and draw my own conclusions from what they say.
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