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Andrew Scheps just said something that's going to break GS
Old 29th February 2020
  #1
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Andrew Scheps just said something that's going to break GS

FF to 29:45 where he voices his explicit opinion on using hardware to mix.





I love brutal honesty.
Old 29th February 2020
  #2
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Sharp11's Avatar
 

Note the frustration in his voice and body language - he knows full well how absurd much of the "pro-analogue at all costs" mind-set is, but he has to stop himself short of calling out these people as idiots!

He makes a great point when he says there are many things that can be done in the box that simply don't exist in the analogue world.

So true!
Old 29th February 2020
  #3
A bit of a breath of fresh air. I did just jump to about 29 minutes... but I found myself nodding along with more or less everything he said in that section -- and even found myself offering at least one ad hoc, talk-to-the-screen qualification that was echoed by Scheps a second or two later -- when he talks about whether mixing through a console will 'imprint' a character on the mix. (One of the community colleges where I took rec classes had a Neve board; while I appreciated its distinctive sound on some things, for me, I actually preferred the sound of some decidedly less expensive and less revered boards for handling a mix. That stance has raised a few eyebrows over the years but it's the way I felt; as self-contained as I am, I'll admit it was kind of 'reassuring' to hear that Scheps seems to have similar feelings about those mostly beloved boards, at least vis a vis what's capable mixing in the box.)


For me, I assume that folks who mix via analog mixing boards feel they work best that way, get the results they are looking for easiest that way. If you feel you know how to nail something with the gear you've got, there IS a certain logic in sticking with what has been working for you. Not everyone is a relentless technology explorer -- some folks just want/need to get the job done and get home to the kids (or on to that last-minute, midnight session).

That said, it's also important for folks to understand that the perfect answer for them and the way they work is not necessarily the right answer for the guy in the next multimedia suite over. In a field as complex as modern sound recording and music production, there are no ultimate answers that work for everyone equally.
Old 29th February 2020
  #4
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by N1Greg View Post
FF to 29:45 where he voices his explicit opinion on using hardware to mix.
And then back up 15 seconds to where he says "... nothing could matter more [than your hardware] while you're recording."
Old 29th February 2020
  #5
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brockorama's Avatar
 

I dropped the needle where he said he likes his neve pres going in. After that he doesn't care.

Sounds about right.
Old 29th February 2020
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
And then back up 15 seconds to where he says "... nothing could matter more [than your hardware] while you're recording."
Awfully hard to get the sound INTO the box without SOME hardware up front.

And, as we all know, an audio chain is only as strong as its weakest element.
Old 29th February 2020
  #7
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KingsX's Avatar
 

He's saying your gear on the input is crucial. Mics, pre-amps/channel strips, converters etc are everything. But once that information is in there, digitized, why drag it back out. One could argue, what made great sound going in, can make great sound going out and back in again, but I tend to agree with him overall.
Old 29th February 2020
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brockorama View Post
I dropped the needle where he said he likes his neve pres going in. After that he doesn't care.

Sounds about right.
This thread is a great example of how you can snatch a tiny quote out of context. Probably one of the reasons why Scheps finds the internet unhealthy.
Old 29th February 2020
  #9
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brockorama's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
This thread is a great example of how you can snatch a tiny quote out of context. Probably one of the reasons why Scheps finds the internet unhealthy.
Watched again. What part did I miss again ?
Old 29th February 2020
  #10
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
And, as we all know, an audio chain is only as strong as its weakest element.
Usually the operator.
Old 29th February 2020
  #11
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KingsX's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Usually the operator.
Exactly. That and the performers/musicians.
Old 29th February 2020
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by brockorama View Post
I dropped the needle where he said he likes his neve pres going in. After that he doesn't care.

Sounds about right.
[bold added]

Actually, while he said he really likes the sound of Neve preamps for tracking, he was quite emphatic that he, himself, prefers to mix ITB, for the myriad reasons he went into in the section beginning around 29 minutes.


To be up front, I can't see how Scheps's rather unextraordinary personal preference for mixing ITB is going to 'break' GS. He's just one guy -- and while he is emphatic about his own preferences -- and explains the reasoning with examples -- he also allows that others prefer to work in other ways and that hardware mixing may be just the ticket for them.
Old 29th February 2020
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Usually the operator.
Bedrock truth.
Old 29th February 2020
  #14
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Kronos147's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Usually the operator.
I beg to differ. Usually the source.
Old 29th February 2020
  #15
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronos147 View Post
I beg to differ. Usually the source.
Yeah, well...
Old 29th February 2020
  #16
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Yeeah...he says that but his best work was done before the "all ITB" time.
I agree some plugin tools are unique/amazing..but between a LA2A plugin and the real deal I know what I choose...and I couldn't care less what A.Scheps says about it.

And who needs 400 1176s ???

Some of the best records (Motown.. Beatles) have been done with a small desk, 4 track or 8 track machines
and a few EQs / limiters

400 1176's???? Ridiculous.
Old 29th February 2020
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Tammer View Post
Yeeah...he says that but his best work was done before the "all ITB" time.
I agree some plugin tools are unique/amazing..but between a LA2A plugin and the real deal I know what I choose...and I couldn't care less what A.Scheps says about it.
I like a real La2a when I can get it. And I'm not Scheps, I'm just some schmuck, but I can think of two or three ITB mix processes, things that sound very "natural," that I use constantly and simply aren't possible with hardware. And if they were, I'd need five or six of everything.
Old 29th February 2020
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
This thread is a great example of how you can snatch a tiny quote out of context. Probably one of the reasons why Scheps finds the internet unhealthy.

The whole video is right there, and his point is as stands.

His comment about tracking makes sense in the context of the entirety of his message.

Now, let's discuss complaining about taking quotes out of context while displaying a quote out of context
Old 29th February 2020
  #19
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
The whole video is right there, and his point is as stands.
Sure, but while OP's isolated soundbite might "break GS," I think Scheps' entire message is a bit different.

Last edited by Brent Hahn; 29th February 2020 at 06:46 PM.. Reason: bad pronoun
Old 29th February 2020
  #20
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Sharp11's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Sure, but while OP's isolated soundbite might "break GS," I think Scheps' entire message is a bit different.
Re-edited for clarity.

He's been on point about this for awhile, and I mostly agree, but he's one man with opinions, and as has been pointed out, not everyone agrees.

In logical fallacy terms, we could label this thread title "I present you my logical fallacy of the day, the "appeal to authority":

The appeal to authority is a fallacy in argumentation, but deferring to an authority is a reliable heuristic that we all use virtually every day on issues of relatively little importance. There is always a chance that any authority can be wrong, that's why the critical thinker accepts facts provisionally.

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/...l-to-Authority

However, there's no doubt in my mind that this thread will grow into a potential GS-breaker. lol
Old 29th February 2020
  #21
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
However, there's no doubt in my mind that this thread will grow into a potential GS-breaker. lol
Only thing breaking so far is wind.
Old 29th February 2020
  #22
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KingsX's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Only thing breaking so far is wind.
Lower your fiber intake a bit, will help that out.
Old 29th February 2020
  #23
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meanwhile i play the who won't get fooled again on the phones and the mind is blown every time.
Old 29th February 2020
  #24
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack P View Post
meanwhile i play the who won't get fooled again on the phones and the mind is blown every time.
Meet the new bs, same as the old bs.
Old 29th February 2020
  #25
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Thanks for posting, @ N1Greg . I did enjoy the link.


Dogs and cats living together. . .

Ray H.
Old 29th February 2020
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
And then back up 15 seconds to where he says "... nothing could matter more [than your hardware] while you're recording."
That's where his argument kind of falls apart from a logical perspective. If the 1176 emulation is fine ITB then the Neve emulation should be too.
Old 29th February 2020
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
And then back up 15 seconds to where he says "... nothing could matter more [than your hardware] while you're recording."
Haha yeah! And I totally agree.

Once I got awesome mics I felt the ITB transition was allot smoother. Especially lead vocals. I still use some HW compressors but not much.

It's really all about the tracking.
Old 1st March 2020
  #28
I'm an amateur so I'll just stick with the analogue hardware despite the handicap.
Old 1st March 2020
  #29
If I track with my Manley, SSL and Rupert Neve gear, mixing in the box can still provide great results with less headaches. However I still need to use hardware gear for the 2 bus. It definitely sounds better than plug ins.
Old 1st March 2020
  #30
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Wish someone would ask Scheps what he thinks of Unison preamps and tracking through them vs hardware. I know he's a fan of 1073s and 1176s for tracking it seems; would love to get his opinion on the Unison 1073 vs the real thing.
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