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Do you transparent mic and preamp then color itb?
Old 24th February 2020
  #31
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Unclenny's Avatar
I have been fortunate enough to have been limited to one pretty clean mic (22-251) and one subtly colored pre (Trident strip) for the last dozen years or so.....along with a bunch of stock Digi plugs.

Because of that good fortune I have learned how to capture my sound in a pretty natural and satisfying way.

Faders up.....commence smiling.

Old 24th February 2020
  #32
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My favorite two "natural-ish" vocal microphones-are ribbons! AEA N22 and Samar AL-95.
Chris
Old 24th February 2020
  #33
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b0se's Avatar
Even with a brand new dummy account, using an alias specifically for the topic, and admitting to trolling...

Old 25th February 2020
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dpro View Post
He uses Analog outboard gear while tracking. Its actually completely opposite of what you are talking about


look what andrew does here tracking in the bass

F((skin badboy engineering.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrQvd_cJcOs


...and to be fair, i saw him saying he doesn't track much anymore and usually just gets projects to mix, but when he does track....he fires up the neve and all the goodies still on the way in.




i was just looking yesterday at his namm presentation on Pro Tools Folders and the S1....

and for me it just seemed a bit sad looking at the plasticky/municipal Avid S1 workstation compared to the beautiful big neve and SSL boards....


with their transistors and transformers and capacitors and resistors and VU meters and ......wood....and crafted pan pots and and and ...lol, i'll leave it there

obviously the functionality of technology destroys all that came before it.
Old 25th February 2020
  #35
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chrischoir's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Driver View Post
I will just come out and say it, all the slutty mics and pres (and outboard gear for people still mixing hybrid) is really only doing what you can do later, and better with plugins. Cork sniffing is over, go in clean, load up your plugins and go to work, all the mic, preamp emulation, tube, transformer, transistor color and more than you could ever need is at your fingertips (with undo)
The problem with this method, is plugins do not sound good. One's only hope to get a good ITB recording is coloring on the way in. To get a decent ITB mix that rivals analog, you need to use good converters, good color mic pres and color comps while tracking. Plugins for color is a bad idea.
Old 25th February 2020
  #36
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Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
More like limiting options in the next process.
I think of it as focusing the project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tkaitkai View Post
That's the point.
Yo..
Old 25th February 2020
  #37
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostman View Post

obviously the functionality of technology destroys all that came before it.
Or was it perhaps the disappearance of budgets and appearance of the recall frenzy......so if one wants to live off doing the do, some tools make it work more than others. Sonics completely notwithstanding.
Old 25th February 2020
  #38
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andychamp's Avatar
Whatever color I know I‘ll be wanting later on gets added at the recording stage.
This can be hardware or, with DAWs now offering input FX (Cubase, Reaper), it might well be a plugin.
Old 25th February 2020
  #39
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BM Grabber's Avatar
 

Trolling.... succeeded
Old 25th February 2020
  #40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Or was it perhaps the disappearance of budgets and appearance of the recall frenzy......so if one wants to live off doing the do, some tools make it work more than others. Sonics completely notwithstanding.
Agreed

And what you say there is probably the causality for today’s itb technology even finding a r and d budget and the market
Old 26th February 2020
  #41
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Beating the same drum here but..the plugins sound as good or better than analog now and a hundred times more flexible, just use a c414 and a millenia pre or similar on everything, get ALL the bandwidth, NONE of the colour - then add all the warmth you will ever need with plugins...this is the advice I wish I had got 20 years back
Old 26th February 2020
  #42
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Chris
Old 26th February 2020
  #43
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bicarbone's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Driver View Post
<snip> then add all the warmth you will ever need with plugins...this is the advice I wish I had got 20 years back
20 years back all you would have gotten out of plugins is funny artefacts and stutter... (I remember it as if it was yesterday). I guess one's "warmth" is someone else's "8bit sound".
Old 26th February 2020
  #44
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tkaitkai's Avatar
 

OK great that's it everyone gearslutz is done pro audio is done we can just close the forum now
Old 26th February 2020
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bicarbone View Post
"warmth"
warmth and plugin should not be used in the same sentence
Old 26th February 2020
  #46
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andychamp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Driver View Post
Beating the same drum here but..the plugins sound as good or better than analog now and a hundred times more flexible, just use a c414 and a millenia pre or similar on everything, get ALL the bandwidth, NONE of the colour - then add all the warmth you will ever need with plugins...this is the advice I wish I had got 20 years back
They‘re right, you‘re just trolling.
Bye & *plonk*
Old 26th February 2020
  #47
Well, it's simply fun.

I don't have a lot of outboard, but I use it whenever it sounds good on the way in. I would never argue that this is the best approach, but it's fun and it's inspiring. And there's nothing better than knowing what you and the artist wants. So get the sound right into the DAW!

One of my last recordings had a vocal chain of a modified UM57 > V376 > Electrodyne 511 > Urei 1178 > another Electrodyne 511 > AD
That makes 6 transformers in the chain before hitting the AD. Was that really necessary? Nope. Did it sound neutral? Nope. Was it fun and did it sound energetic as we wanted? YES
Old 26th February 2020
  #48
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Driver View Post
Beating the same drum here but..the plugins sound as good or better than analog now and a hundred times more flexible, just use a c414 and a millenia pre or similar on everything, get ALL the bandwidth, NONE of the colour - then add all the warmth you will ever need with plugins...this is the advice I wish I had got 20 years back
Congratulations on your troll scout leader badge. Well done.
Old 26th February 2020
  #49
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Personally, I'm finding less and less of a *need* for hardware. And also find that if I want to be subtle with the hardware on the way in (which I generally do) then the difference between tracking with a couple dB of treble lift from an analog eq, and a couple dB of GR from an analog comp aren't making or breaking anything for me.

Where I still find hardware more relevent is in the area of extreme settings, particularly comps and distortion. Although I really do like the distortion in Console 1. Decapitator is great too (isn't Tchad a big fan?). Even limiters set to crush are pretty cool sonically, but not the same as extreme settings on hardware to my ears. In some ways it's a question of rather you (and clients, guest engineers etc) can embrace the different aesthetic.

But still I've yet to hear plugins being able to deliver a Daptone sound...That being said, I'm not really equipped for that sound anyway. There is a cool demo called Phat Hat if anyone owns studio one that is Daptone-ish in style, but not in sound. I would be really interested (and amazed and have a ton of questions) to hear someone nail the daptone sound with that recording! Won't be holding my breath though.

For me though, clean is like a Josephson 700 series, not so much a 414. So no money saved there.
Old 26th February 2020
  #50
Gear Guru
I love Tchad Blake's sound but do feel it cartoonish sometimes on a certain level. When I listen to something like Muddy Waters Hard Again album and then Black Keys, there is a huge difference..... Personally I early on bought an AT3035 mic which is great and very natural. I thought to color after with a really clean DBX preamp....

Well now I use an Oktava 2500 tube mic thru a UA 610 Solo and sing into the mic and tube-ness.... Very much more inspirational. I would feel totally different on jazz or classical but "color" on the way in to me I find helps me perform to the gear's harmonics. Cleaner sound? Back the input stage off, etc....

Computers aren't great for distortion anyway, not bad just not great......If you want to use analogue after the fact that would make more sense for "color"..... I think it's bass-ackwards to add color with plug ins.....I however don't use eq on the way in FWIW and compress just a bit (unless I want that sound) because I find that invasive and I can control that easier in post if need be.
Old 27th February 2020
  #51
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Objectively parking our preferential bias is almost impossible for me and some of the other posters on these threads however I will ask for your temporary indulgence;
Most of my work over the past three years has been capturing my live FOH audio for video footage. The Digigrid/Waves LV1 system, that I bought three years ago, offers world class transparent digital sonic processing that is a perfect match for the tubes and transformers available with my tube mics. The acoustic Americana genre where I reside is not unique in this regard. Over the past twenty years I have been all over most of the hardware protocols discussed in these threads and always wound up needing to deploy my ADL600 tube pre to glue tracks together for a final two mix. It worked OK with studio projects however it was far less that satisfactory for live FOH work. The lesson learned was, world class transparent processing needs the "WARMTH" associated with tubes and transformers: to this end tube mics in the front of any capture do it much better and cleaner than plug-ins.
Today a Flea47 on a vocal through my system seldom if ever needs any EQ manipulation and other than a HP filter and a small amount of LA3a with a trace of H-Verb, the track is print ready for the video. It should come as no big surprise that a great FOH sound will record well. I also capture a redundant multi-track recording direct from the pres for post production two mixing. If the truth is to be told there is not much comparative improvement, if any, with the ITB two mix working with the raw pre tracks.
Given the successful experience with my current system, I will be selling the gear that I previously used to record pristine tracks in my project studio. I no longer need it!
Hugh

Last edited by hughshouse; 27th February 2020 at 03:34 PM..
Old 27th February 2020
  #52
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I am curious to know what Andrew Scheps and Tchad Blake think of UAD Unison Preamps and Townsend Sphere Mics. I’m sure at this stage they are still mixing tracks that were generally tracked with analog mics, preamps, compressors and EQs...though since they both see no downside in digital mixing, I do wonder their thoughts and opinions on the tracking phase.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #53
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IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Driver View Post
The guys who are ahead of the curve don't use any hardware...guys like Tschad Blake and Andrew Schepps don't want to go near a piece of hardware, or even want stuff tracked with colored gear....they can do all the coloring itb....that is my point...transparent preamps and flat mics are all you need these days, slutty gear is just indulgence...in other words plugins are the only game in town.
Please admit you made this up.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #54
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Driver View Post
The guys who are ahead of the curve don't use any hardware...guys like Tschad Blake and Andrew Schepps don't want to go near a piece of hardware, or even want stuff tracked with colored gear....they can do all the coloring itb....that is my point...transparent preamps and flat mics are all you need these days, slutty gear is just indulgence...in other words plugins are the only game in town.
Andrew Scheps has been on record saying multiple times he almost exclusively uses outboard 1073s as his preamp of choice. CLA and Joe Barrissi would also like to have a word with you. Even if they "mix" in the box, it doesnt mean they are using stock preamps on a audio interface. Not even close.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #55
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Snorktop's Avatar
 

You are missing something.

Scheps is 100% ITB for mixing, not recording. For recording he still uses all that analog goodness, different mics, great pres, EQs, compression, etc.

Once its in, the plugins are good enough to keep it in, for sure. And I agree, for me this is the best way to do it these days.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #56
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Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
Please admit you made this up.


Agreed
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