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Multi-track with no moving parts!
Old 29th October 2002
  #1
Lives for gear
 

Multi-track with no moving parts!

I'm not posting an ad for Iz, but I think it's imprtant to note that you can now multi-track record with a machine that has no moving parts --- a feat which was impossible before.

I don't doubt that a lot of you already know about this, but I think it's a big enough deal to spread the word around more than I've seen it.

The stability and performance of the format is unprecedented, beating out any tape or hard disk format ever seen.

When the price comes down to earth (give it 5-8 years?), I think it'll replace hard drives forever, except those used by your computer, although possibly those too.

Check out this thread:

http://recordingtheworld.infopop.cc/...2&m=1496091721

I think Iz isn't making a big deal out of it because it costs an arm and a leg, but if they can figure out how to make it affordable, they're gonna change the way things work in the industry.
Old 30th October 2002
  #2
Gear Head
 

Jax, what was interesting about this announcement was a lot of people slammed iZ for this product. I heard all kinds of remarks that amazed me because everyone seemed to miss the point.

I was thrilled that someone (didn't have to be iZ) was trying to push the industry forward toward a more reliable recording solution.

Is this an expensive solution? Well there is Cost and then there is Price. If I am doing a live gig and there is a drive failure then I am totally hosed. So even if this drive is $5000 it would be worth it. Because after the gig is over I copy all 24 tracks to a DVD or hard drive and use the solid state drive over again.

At AES they were taking the drive and throwing it across the booth on the floor then pluggin it back in and hitting play.

Sure would nice if we could get rid of these noisy, heat generating mechnical storage devices.

Lee
Old 30th October 2002
  #3
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

funny how zoom did it FIRST with their pocket studio thingie yet IZ gets the initial credits for it?!? so what if the zoom only does it for a few track for a few minutes...

come on... its going to happen one day eventually on larger and larger scales. i guess no one remembers the tape based digital storage mediums of just a few years ago.

its digital technology of which we are only in its infancy.
Old 30th October 2002
  #4
Gear Head
 

Alpha its not about who does it first it is about who applies the technology to the most useful application.

Xerox developed the GUI interface but Apple got credit and made is a usable commercial product.

Do you have any idea what product you use every day that Doug Engelbart developed and first introduced ?

The only way these are going to come down in price is if someone like iZ starts selling more of them and creating demand.

Lee
Old 30th October 2002
  #5
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by 20db.com
The only way these are going to come down in price is if someone like iZ starts selling more of them and creating demand.
Uh... not really. The only way it's going to come down in price is when the mass market adopts them... our little corner of the world isn't a piss hole in the snow in the scheme of the entire computer market...

When DELL and Gateway latch on to them, then you'll see the price really plummet
Old 30th October 2002
  #6
48 track (or higher) 24bit 96k in one box - high speed and economic back up - then I am interested.
Old 30th October 2002
  #7
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletcher

When DELL and Gateway latch on to them, then you'll see the price really plummet

ditto. what will happen is that the tech sector will slowly but surely make these smart media cards [or some other technology] smaller yet larger at the same time. when i bought my digital camera, an 8MB chip was standard. i later bought a 64MB chip, now a 128MB chip is out and so on. each time a new larger chip was introduced, the older dropped in price./

iZ wont make a damn bit of difference doing this. but i bet when you can buy a digital video camera with a smart chip that stores 2 hours on it, then the music industry will be able to hang on the coattails of it for archival.... then when the computer manufacturers adopt it as their main storage device within the machines themselves... then we will be able to record to them.

the Radar is JUST a computer masked as a multitrack device.
Old 31st October 2002
  #8
Gear Head
 

Well Jax, see I told you everyone comes out of the woodwork to put down this drive and any positive comments about this direction.

Fletcher/Alpha, how about giving me a little credit will you. I am not some pimple face kid making random comments about the industry. My quote was "...if someone like iZ starts selling more of them and creating demand." I didn't say iZ was going to drive the price down to $100 each by themselves.

The comment was that SOMEONE has to start using these drives in a commerical product. Are iZ sales going to do it alone, of course not. And yes Fletcher you are right the audio industry is a vertical market which will not generate the volume to do this on its own.

But the importance of this product is not a function of price. It is a function of reliablity !

Every single comment sounds like some playground school kid... "This has been done before... na nah na hah". I haven't seen a single comment, except Jax, who has touched on the real importance of this technology. I can imagine what you would have said to the guys who were starting Federal Express.

"Oh thats been done before." "Thats what the Post Office does." "Thats too expensive know one needs to send a letter overnight."

All the comments about WHO developed it first are totally offbase, irrelevant and short sighted. I am thrilled that someone is trying to push the industry forward toward a more reliable recording solution.

Lee
Old 31st October 2002
  #9
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

there is a HUGE difference between a GUI and silent drives... at least to consumers. a GUI now drives MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of household computers and laid the foundation for the modern computer to be readily accepted into the major population.

iZ is just getting esoteric off some immature technology. like someone said, still gotta cool the CPU. noisy drives are only a part, an isobox seems like a much better [and a LOT cheaper] direction... or simply getting the machines out of the room.

no moving parts is only half the issue. from the link above, it seems they only hold the info for 10 guaranteed years. and there could possibly be drive failure even with flash technology... even with this sort of drive, you cant trust your information in a single place.

would it be worth $5k? i guess to some. will it cost $200? 10 years maybe.

im not downing it or anything... its a cool thing to think about. right now, and the next [at least] 5 years... they are just servant to the technology and its applications. watch for camcorders to adopt this technology and run with it. im not sure if the consumer computer manufacturers will want to mess with it for quite some time [needed to bring the technology to affordable terms] simply due to the benefits vs cost. a $699 PC with a silent drive? mechanical hard drives [like everything else in a computer] are disposable, yet indespensible [until you just get over what you no longer had what you once had]

and i dont think your "some pimple face kid", i musta just been having one of those days
Old 31st October 2002
  #10
Gear Head
 

Alpha I think we will see a lot of chances in PC footprint and the entire design is ready for a change. I read that Intel is talking about designs to reduce noise and heat by using water cooled PC's as well as a totally different case design.

When you think about the PC hasn't really changed since 1981 when IBM introduced that design. The same basic power supply and hard drive design.

The issue of noise on the current machines would not be eliminated by solid state disk but it would be reduced quite a bit. The CPU fan is not really the biggest issue, its the multiple platters spinning at 10,000 rpms and the power supply fan. Solve these two problems and this would go a long way to reducing noise. Plus there are existing heat sinks that you can buy right now that will eliminate the fan.

Your point about drive failure and 10 year guaranteed is a good one. But if you lookup the specs of a mechanical drive you will find they are designed for about 5 years of use. Obviously there is no absolute guarantees on any of this stuff but I sure vote for less mechanical devices.

As far as the price I hope you are right, would love to see this come down to $200. But in the mean time I see this as a temporary storage medium. What would you think about using one of these drives to record a live event or session and then dump to a mechanical drive after the event ? Seems to me that this would be the way to go. This would give you the reliability during the most critical part of the job.

Thanks for the reply and I understand completely about "having one of those days". My hope is those days are few and far between.

Lee
Old 31st October 2002
  #11
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

well remember... MOST drives sold are 5400/7200 rpm drives. 10k drive sure do have a LOT of whine to them... almost like a jet engine in the CR.

im not sure what type of live gig you are talking about... but would just using another room work? i know any live gig i have done in the past few years, the drive hum was the least of the noise floor to worry about.


maybe when computers hit the living room and get out of the office, we might see this technology adopted more quickly. i think thats inevitable, and necessary forthe computer business. to become a component in the home theater rack.
Old 31st October 2002
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Volodia's Avatar
 

I've seen the product at AES an the interest of it is not just the noise but most of all the reliability . You can throw this thing on the floor and it will still work (they were doing it) . It's more resistant to temperature changes and humidity than other drives . And that's certainly reassuring in difficult situations .
I was with a big distributor and reseller of high end products for France (he installed a lot of studios for television/music/films) and he was very interested in that drive . He asked his assistant to inquire about the makers of it . So I think we should thank IZ for being the first to offer this technology to the audio world .
Old 1st November 2002
  #13
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groundcontrol's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk
im not sure what type of live gig you are talking about... but would just using another room work? i know any live gig i have done in the past few years, the drive hum was the least of the noise floor to worry about.
The problem is NOT fan noise, it's having the DAW stopping to record mid-show because of drive malfunction...

I'm not sure I would trust a DAW for that. when I was doing tv remotes I was always using DA-88's and whenever possible doubling them as backup. I never had a problem but I know guys that were using ADAT's when they first came out... It was not a pretty sight! :eek:
Old 1st November 2002
  #14
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

i have ued ADATs many times for live shows without one hiccup.

i havent had a drive shut down on me either.... knock on wood... but i havent taken that out live yet.
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