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Dynamic convolution Neve console.
Old 19th June 2007
  #1
Dynamic convolution Neve console.

Dynamic convolution Neve console. Tonight was proof of concept night. It lives.

No, I'm not joking. I couldn't believe the sound of this thing. I think for once it'll survive my patented cheesey demo process and still drop your jaw. I listened to a bunch of music of various sorts through it, switching it on and off, and anything from James Brown to Slayer became amazing when 'neved'. Naturally it should be all the more impressive used in an actual mix...

It's got a new variant on the now-free Density algorithm for an overdrive effect, for which I have to figure out how to set up the controls. I want this to work like a console, where you use actual gain staging, hitting it harder with faders if you want it to be driven hard. It's very much in the Charles Dye school of 'mix through the 2-buss effect from the beginning' except it makes Analog Channel look really sick. Hell, this makes UAD look sick. Convolution compared to dynamic convolution is like 2D compared to 3D.

I'll keep ya posted.
Old 19th June 2007
  #2
Curious to hear the samples Chris.
I must say I'm a fan of your products... but sometimes your excitement just makes me afraid heh thumbsup
Old 19th June 2007
  #3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj View Post
I think for once it'll survive my patented cheesey demo process and still drop your jaw. .
I don't know what this mean, but please keep us posted
Old 19th June 2007
  #4
Gear Maniac
 

I'm kind of estranged by your use of the term 'sick'?
Old 19th June 2007 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Nut
 

'Sick' means good where I am from.


Any chance of some .wavs/demos of this miracle?????
Old 19th June 2007 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
artnoiser's Avatar
 

yikesters!

eenteresteeng!
Old 19th June 2007 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 

that sounds cool, Chris!

BTW - I just noticed that you've released a stereo widener finally. I remember asking you about this a few months back, but there wasn't anything in the works just yet.

You need a newsletter or something to keep your customers up to date with all the happenings! :p
Old 19th June 2007 | Show parent
  #8
yes... a newsletter would be nice!
Old 19th June 2007 | Show parent
  #9
I know, that's a liability- for now, I'm still totally focused on the DSP part of plugins only, haven't even got a marketing guy. I do hope to start making youtube videos that will serve as 'video manuals' for the plugins- got a camera and some lighting and stuff.

Hope you like StereoFX, it's in the same category as DUY Wide- last batch of plugs I released continued the 'supplement DUY' theme with HardVacuum (akin to DUY Valve) and StereoFX (akin to DUY Wide). FX is the same deal- basically a side channel expander, not simply side boost or enhance. DUY Wide is better at popping solid close side images out, but StereoFX is way better at widening farfield stereo reverb.

Sick means good to me too but in this case I meant, 'like AC1 which Charles Dye uses, except it has more control over the hardness of the overdrive, a smoother transition to the knee of the overdrive, and AC1 doesn't have dynamic convolution which appears to be a big help. So, it makes AC1 look sick'

I'm not worried about being enthusiastic. I always tell people if you are hesitant, don't buy the thing- it will still be there later when other people have had a chance to try it and give you a more jaundiced view. It stands to reason that when I work on a thing for weeks it's right up MY alley
Old 19th June 2007 | Show parent
  #10
Oh, and guys- no newsletter. Ever. That would be email, opt-in, and it's too much like spam.

I need to keep my customer email list clear of anything promotional ever, so that I can continue to use it to give people product updates free forever. If I start messing with PR through that channel people will tune out- _I_ would- and they won't get new versions of the products they've been good enough to buy with real money.

No newsletter. I'll come up with something different that doesn't use email
Old 19th June 2007 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
artnoiser's Avatar
 

It's cool to see a person like you excercise this much creativity; in your plugin design, in alternative to email newsletters...

Maybe an RSS feed for an online newsletter? Just spouting off unasked-for ideas, you know.

artnoiser
Old 19th June 2007 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Jim Kerr's Avatar
 

Yeah, looks good. Do you have RTAS compatables or do you stay clear away from the (Darth Vador accent) D-A-R-K S-I-D-E!! ;^)
Old 19th June 2007 | Show parent
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazz Thieves View Post
'Sick' means good where I am from.


Any chance of some .wavs/demos of this miracle?????
Funny... where I come from it means you better get a fix, quick. (Cfr. drug-sick, ill)

Language: it's an evolving thing. Particularly when a given bit of jargon comes into use outside its original milieu by poseurs and wannabes. Mind you, I'm not singling anyone out here -- I fully recognize the use of sick to mean extreme, generally in a positive sense, in the media-driven culture. I'm just making a general observation about language and culture and the commercial packaging thereof.
Old 19th June 2007 | Show parent
  #14
Whoa, hang on, terminology change... VERY glad I caught this before a product release...

"Dynamic Convolution", although it is the most generic description you could ask for to describe this process (something the guy from 'Pipeline Audio' has been asking for, for years) is, believe it or not, a trademark of Sintefex. I should be grateful they didn't try to trademark 'convolution' while they were at it...

I think Focusrite has just earned themselves a 'DUYing' for supporting these guys, I've been reading about it and I am not pleased with this behavior. Compete in the marketplace, don't try to patent math. They can have their implementation- I don't have any idea how they're doing it and I don't care. I'll do it better.

Meet "Interpolated Convolution". In which you synthesize a convolution impulse on the fly based on the incoming sample values for that point in the impulse. The term is now "Interpolated Convolution" because Sintefex seem to believe they can own the term 'Dynamic' in this context.

I _really_ hate that sort of behavior. I just hope they have the good sense to leave me alone or we'll both be very unhappy. I'd rather do my little plugins for $60 and be people's nice little secret weapon, I'm quite happy with that. When provoked, I tend to scorch the earth and put out stuff that pointedly clobbers a competing product (at least for some purposes, your mileage may vary!)

I'm going to voluntarily stay away from the term 'Dynamic Convolution' and ask that my users use the term 'Interpolated Convolution'. I hope for their sake that they are happy with this, and I never hear another word about it, because I could be an extremely bad enemy. The fact is that their claims of native systems being unable to do this interpolation are rubbish. Native systems can both do the interpolated convolution AND do the time constants of things like compressors in a more sophisticated way than Sintefex apparently do- I'm going to see what I can do to bring this to fruition, and I'm not staying off the market for fear of Sintefex patent lawyers.

It's like Tritone Digital said: "We don't use Dynamic Convolution!"

Neither do I. I'm using _interpolated_ convolution, which is not a trademark of anyone as far as I know, certainly not me. It's a technical description of a relatively simple process.
Old 19th June 2007 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
matucha's Avatar
So let's see how will your stuff compare to Nebula plug, that can sample compressors, distortion and modulation fx alongside with typical reverbs. What an extraordinary times ;-). And they say it isn't convolution at all ;-).
Old 19th June 2007 | Show parent
  #16
I couldn't tell you- that's going to be up to reviewers once I get my stuff out- but I can see a sort of family resemblance, so I could venture a guess:

My stuff is going to be more organic, but less good at literally replicating the artifacts of a sampled/convolved hardware piece. I do stuff that's more generic. It's not about replicating the exact sound of a Fairchild 670 down to the last measurement, it's about getting the FEEL of that sort of thing (actually I have a new varimu compressor coming out that's extremely different from 'Pressure' in sound but is probably a lot closer to the 670)

So it's not going to be about being able to put my plug up against a specific hardware box and go 'Hey, it's exactly the same!', it's about being able to DO about the same thing you could do with the box. I think this is actually harder, because you have to listen, not just shoot a lot of impulses and measure and make lookup tables.
Old 19th June 2007 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
matucha's Avatar
listening's good
Old 19th June 2007 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Nut
 

i can't wait to hear it!
Old 19th June 2007 | Show parent
  #19
bring it on chris!
Old 19th June 2007 | Show parent
  #20
*ROFL* a bit looking into the history of this- and reading a Gearslutz thread from last year with a lot of HARDWARE MANUFACTURERS being not at all pleased with Focusrite and Sintefex :D

This is hilarious- apparently the work I'm doing trying to make custom algorithms and such so the overall task is bigger than just 'convolute someone else's hardware' is more than Focusrite felt necessary.

OK, forward full speed ahead, and it's not 'dynamic convolution', it's 'interpolated convolution'. I didn't quite realize the situation. Looks like there are a lot of guys out there who would rather see someone like me creatively trying to get A SOUND (for instance, my use of impulses is far from reality-based, there's exaggeration present) than see someone like Sintefex mechanically trading on their names.

Gotta give 'em credit for determining the legal limits for me tho I can say my work is based on research of, for instance, Neve 1272 impulses Pipeline made back when he was begging people to write a 'dynamic convolution' (HIS term) plugin. I can't call the thing a Neve 1272 though. (which I had no intention of doing in the first place)

Back to reading the other thread...
Old 20th June 2007 | Show parent
  #21
Gear Addict
 
mOjO FET's Avatar
 

So, how is your plug-in going to be different from dynamic convolution?

So far the only thing I find convincing is Nebula.

I am curious though.

Michael
Old 20th June 2007 | Show parent
  #22
Um :D

It'll sound better and won't use a trademark owned by Sintefex? :D
Old 20th June 2007 | Show parent
  #23
Gear Maniac
 

What the hell IS dynamic convolution, anyway?

I know, I know... I'll look it up.
Old 20th June 2007 | Show parent
  #24
A trademark of Sintefex :D

No seriously...

To them, it is taking a LOT of convolution impulses of gear at different ('stepped') signal levels. The idea is that gear might have a different impulse when pushed really hard than it does when barely stressed at all. This idea is correct.

More specifically, to them it's writing code that can load whole sets of impulses for a given piece of gear, and fade between them in a way similarly to how Altiverb can change ITS impulses to brighten, darken, extend or diminish the reverb tail etc.

Now they could have written code dedicated to synthesizing an impulse on the fly over a much broader range, rather than taking the 1000 snapshots approach, and if they did it right they wouldn't be talking about how impossible it is to do natively. But then they wouldn't be able to trade on the recognizability of countless hardware devices they've included and would have to live or die based on how good the ONE sound was :D

Enough sniping, I have to get back to work
Old 20th June 2007 | Show parent
  #25
Lives for gear
 
gsilbers's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisj View Post
I know, that's a liability- for now, I'm still totally focused on the DSP part of plugins only, haven't even got a marketing guy. I do hope to start making youtube videos that will serve as 'video manuals' for the plugins- got a camera and some lighting and stuff.

Hope you like StereoFX, it's in the same category as DUY Wide- last batch of plugs I released continued the 'supplement DUY' theme with HardVacuum (akin to DUY Valve) and StereoFX (akin to DUY Wide). FX is the same deal- basically a side channel expander, not simply side boost or enhance. DUY Wide is better at popping solid close side images out, but StereoFX is way better at widening farfield stereo reverb.

Sick means good to me too but in this case I meant, 'like AC1 which Charles Dye uses, except it has more control over the hardness of the overdrive, a smoother transition to the knee of the overdrive, and AC1 doesn't have dynamic convolution which appears to be a big help. So, it makes AC1 look sick'

I'm not worried about being enthusiastic. I always tell people if you are hesitant, don't buy the thing- it will still be there later when other people have had a chance to try it and give you a more jaundiced view. It stands to reason that when I work on a thing for weeks it's right up MY alley
a good progra for that is ishowu which will record whatever is on screen. check out audioease demo of snapper. good and easy
Old 20th June 2007 | Show parent
  #26
I like the Iron Oxcide a lot. One request though. Can you make these plugs work for the the guys that are running things at 96k. That way we don't have to cut values in half. There are so many plugs you make that wont sound right at 96k.

DO IT FOR THE GIPPER!

An Airwindows fan
Old 20th June 2007 | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
 
BradM's Avatar
Someone refresh my memory what that program was that allowed you to use AU plugins on a VST host?

I'm very curious about checking out the Airwindows plugins but am using Cubase/Nuendo.

thanks,
Brad
Old 20th June 2007 | Show parent
  #28
Isn't that Plogue Bidule?

Sorry about the 96K- a lot will work predictably, or different-but-still-useable at 96K. I'm not trying to harsh your buzz honestly, it's just that what I do is not quite a corporate monolith. I'm basically jamming on DSP. Often part of it is CPU efficiency, meaning that the plug is like a finely cut dsp-crystal meant to wail in just one context- people have bugged me to extend some of the plugs and I've done it, but my art is best expressed in the little weird ones like Bite or Ambience or High Impact that only do one thing, only have one slider, and that's it.

Also, I'm biased- I'm with Dan Lavry, very skeptical about the virtues of high sample rates compared to lower sample rates handled properly. I do admit that 96K isn't silly- and 48K has all sorts of video purposes- but I am still working at 44.1.

It's worth mentioning that you MUST follow DSP with a brickwall filter to prevent digital operations from aliasing- and that the stuff I'm working on now includes this functionality. I'm not going to say you shouldn't be working at 96K- but I will say that I SHOULD be able to make 44.1K not horrible
Old 20th June 2007 | Show parent
  #29
Okay, here's the deal- status report, stuff will be out soon.

I have four plugins ready to go and am just seeing if there are more flavors to include while I'm at it. These are PARODIES of console sound- potentially.

Not a joke.

I have controls on these that push not only the gain intensity, but also the degree of exaggeration of the console/etc qualities. I've been fussing over them for hours, partly to keep it from getting so caricatured that it's unrecognizable. Did you know that Neve sounds dull but if it's caricatured you get brightness and presence instead of a big volume jump? SSL on the other hand, you get that crazy rasp and a BIG volume jump, but the bass gets sort of expandey.

I'll come up with demos of my little drum loop, and will choose 'caricatured' settings to demonstrate. At unity gain there's no exaggeration, but it's very sensitive to adjustments and rapidly takes on exaggerated characteristics.

Here's what I got so far:

Neverland. Caricature of Neve sound. Glossy as hell and euphonic, taut bass. Needs no explaining whatsoever- an immensely appealing caricature

Apicolypse (can you tell I like this one?) Caricature of API sound. Punchy forever, huge soundstage, power music, refuses to sound ratty in the highs.

Logical. Caricature of SSL sound. Amazing that it worked this well off just a pre. That SSL rasp, upfront, loud, maybe kinda thin but not lacking bass. I've never heard anything as cool on metal, it's perfect for that. Also can boost mix volume to where no mastering engineer with any sense will touch it

Rouge. They say Focusrite Red is suited to acoustic music? I don't think it exaggerates very well- but what it does have, does seem to work with acoustic stuff. At any rate there are aspects of this, like built-in brickwalling at the Nyquist frequency, which are useful, and it has the same saturation threshold control as the others. Audiophile pick perhaps?

So far so good, tomorrow I see if there's anything else that's a useful flavor.
Old 20th June 2007 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
John Suitcase's Avatar
 

Maybe something like a Trident A Range?

I use some of those convolutions from Noisevault, including the Neve ones, which I just stick across the stereo buss using a really simple convolution plug I made. It definitely adds something ineffable, even though it's not 'dynamic'.

I also often use the Ampeg/Neumann ones that I found somewhere. They work surprisingly well on DI bass tracks, I think better than the Line 6 stuff.

So, I gather that you're using a handful of IRs, then creating a 'weighted average' IR based on the input level, which you use to convolve with the signal? That seems like a better approach than crossfading between convolutions, which is the approach it seems everyone else has taken (not necessarily using 1000 IRs.), and which is pretty processor intensive, since they're convolving at least two signals at any given moment.

I'm looking forward to your examples.

And I'd love to see native VST versions. Wrappers make me nervous!
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