The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Looking for a Royer 121 alternative on gtrs
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
bladelaw's Avatar
 

Looking for a Royer 121 alternative on gtrs

I find the r121 captures low frequencies nicely, however I don't like the slow transient response. Swapping it around to the rear side improves, albeit slightly.

I tried an AT4050 in figure 8 mode. I find it responds faster/better, because of the transformerless design. But it doesn't get the same low end detail.

So I'm looking for a mic suggestion. Perhaps another transformerless LDC with more bass response?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
Lives for gear
 
andersmv's Avatar
 

I grabbed a Royer R-101 last year and almost kept it just for electric guitars. It was spectacular and I much preferred it to the 121’s I had used in the past. In terms of sheer size though, my Chandler TG mic is a force to be reckoned with in terms of low end and punch. The 5th position EQ setting on it takes the circuit into overdrive and exaggerates everything in an amazing way on amps. I think Wade (the designer) said that setting was kind of like his favorite bass guitar setting run through a Pultec EQ. It’s really something close up on electric guitar, I’ve never heard anything else like that.

Another favorite is the Vanguard V13 tube mic. Very different than the TG, but more appropriate on brighter amps or busier mixes where you don’t have as much room to fit in a guitar track.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
You’re comparing a ribbon with a condenser.

In my experience the r121 is more detailed than any ribbon in its price range and below. One exception might be the aea r92 which I also love on guitar cabs. I also love the stager sr2n. But out of the 3 I still think the Royer r121 is more “detailed”.

I would recommend you try out the Beyer M88 dynamic.

I’m personally not a fan of condensers on guitar amps unless it’s a u67, which I also have and enjoy if it’s the sound I’m looking for
Old 2 weeks ago
  #4
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
I agree with Patrick, the M88 is really great on guitar and has a pretty rich low end.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
If you’re sticking with a ribbon, try the AEA N22. I have two and don’t miss my Royers. It pairs with a 57 like the 121’s do too.

Otherwise, a Coles 4038 or for something you can use close on loud-ish amps, a Beyer 160.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6
Lives for gear
 
wildplum's Avatar
Rca bk5b.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
AEA N22. Pretty good.

Old 2 weeks ago
  #8
I agree on the m88.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
bladelaw's Avatar
 

Looks like 3 votes for the M88. I just ordered one. Will see how it does. Alongside the MD441, SM57, and ND468. 4 should be enough mics on a guitar speaker, right
Old 2 weeks ago
  #10
Lives for gear
 
andersmv's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladelaw View Post
Looks like 3 votes for the M88. I just ordered one. Will see how it does. Alongside the MD441, SM57, and ND468. 4 should be enough mics on a guitar speaker, right
M88's are great and versatile, good choice!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #11
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladelaw View Post
Looks like 3 votes for the M88. I just ordered one. Will see how it does. Alongside the MD441, SM57, and ND468. 4 should be enough mics on a guitar speaker, right
I should hope so...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #12
Like a 121:
Beyerdynamic M130 or AT4081 (little leaner in low frequencies, but very nice on the top frequencies)
Old 2 weeks ago
  #13
Gear Nut
 

Lots of guys like to blend the Royer R-121 ribbon mic with a Shure SM57:

https://www.mixonline.com/technology...-dual-mic-clip
Old 2 weeks ago
  #14
Glad you ordered the m88! You will not be sad. Also sounds excellent on kick, snare, toms, vocals, and horns!

I will never sell mine. I want 3-4 more.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Norton View Post
Glad you ordered the m88! You will not be sad. Also sounds excellent on kick, snare, toms, vocals, and horns!

I will never sell mine. I want 3-4 more.
And also banjo and even acoustic guitars.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #16
Lives for gear
 

beyer bm 85 modded by stephen sank is what i swear by.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #17
Gear Head
 

I like the AEA N8 on acoustic. Don't know how the N22 compares.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladelaw View Post
I find the r121 captures low frequencies nicely, however I don't like the slow transient response. Swapping it around to the rear side improves, albeit slightly.

I tried an AT4050 in figure 8 mode. I find it responds faster/better, because of the transformerless design. But it doesn't get the same low end detail.

So I'm looking for a mic suggestion. Perhaps another transformerless LDC with more bass response?
You’re attributing “slow transient response” to the Royer, but I’m pretty sure it’s faster than most condensers, right? Extremely low mass compared to a LDC, for instance...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
bladelaw's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theglow View Post
You’re attributing “slow transient response” to the Royer, but I’m pretty sure it’s faster than most condensers, right? Extremely low mass compared to a LDC, for instance...
Most LDC's are relatively slow yeah. I was comparing it to a modern transformerless LDC though, which are relatively faster.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #20
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladelaw View Post
Most LDC's are relatively slow yeah. I was comparing it to a modern transformerless LDC though, which are relatively faster.
There's been few threads recently re; transient response vs freq response vs element weight ..and I'll add add 'voicing additional top end via intentional resonances. (I presume if that's true it would be seen in averaged response time, and not a change in transient response?
Here the Royer's improvement from the back -was via it's brighter tone, yet still 'ribbon vs ribbon. Then 'transformerless being 'faster.

.. I for one could go for a good refresher on the whole subject.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #21
Lives for gear
 
chrischoir's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bladelaw View Post
I find the r121 captures low frequencies nicely, however I don't like the slow transient response. Swapping it around to the rear side improves, albeit slightly.

I tried an AT4050 in figure 8 mode. I find it responds faster/better, because of the transformerless design. But it doesn't get the same low end detail.

So I'm looking for a mic suggestion. Perhaps another transformerless LDC with more bass response?
121 is one of the most overrated mics. If you are not tracking crazy high spl, then the m160 is a great ribbon mic. For condenser mics the tlm102 is good value (good on toms too). A great dynamic mic is the m201. (also great on snare)
Old 2 weeks ago
  #22
Lives for gear
Here are some good ones not in the thread so far for guitar amp. Some are rare and cost a bit for what they are.

Moving coils:
MD409-U3
Sony FV300 (Looks like a C48)
Nakamichi DM1000 (Bit noisy, but sounds great)
EV38 (The very old large on with EQ dial on it)

Ribbons:
121 is often first choice for this, I did not want to spend on that so I went for an RM5 instead. I have a Coles 4038, so that is often used if not used on drums at the time.
Groove tubes Velo 8T. darker than the 4038.

LDC:
Groove tubes MD1, MD2, MD3
Sony C37A
any of the common main vocal mic's

I often go for a Moving coil and Ribbon up close and LDC far away. Then pick 2 of the 3 in the mix.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump