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"Records" vs. "Recordings"
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2491
Gear Maniac
 

I don't think its schismogenesis when someone systematically picks off one person at a time, each for different reasons, till there's no one left.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2492
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnorionsound View Post
I don't think its schismogenesis when someone systematically picks off one person at a time, each for different reasons, till there's no one left.
Yeah, there could be something more 'localized' going on there, I guess. Still, there's a social process in play that's recognizable, understandable, and more than a bit troubling.

I mean, I like arguing as much as the next cranky old guy but...


Keep in mind, I'm pretty much trying to avoid assigning 'blame' anywhere -- though blame there may be -- more looking at processes possibly in play.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2493
Lives for gear
 
AfterViewer's Avatar
 

hmmmm..... yots to think about reading through this thread.
https://www.google.com/search?sa=N&q...w=1366&bih=657
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2494
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
I feel sad too. I wanted to enjoy the meltdown but now it's just unfortunate.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2495
Schadenfreude, where is thy joy?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2496
Gear Maniac
 

This is the main act of the meltdown!

I don’t feel sorry for the guy at all. He’s been an annoyance and a troll and now he’s come out as a racist and a homophobe. Let him soak in it.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2497
At the end of the day - too many times, too many people get away with racism, misogyny and homophobia.
So it’s good when it gets called out.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2498
Lives for gear
 
clump's Avatar
 

.......The 70s were great though weren't they!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2499
Lives for gear
 
robert82's Avatar
I think if you had the time and inclination, you could weave a thread through every decade since the 60s and find fun, inspiring, complex, heartfelt music. It doesn't seem to be easy, with so much of it being dreck. But it's there. Heck, I'm so behind the tech thing, I only discovered Spotify a few months ago ( I mean, I knew it existed) - I can call up just about anything I want in seconds. Albums I hadn't heard in 40 years - obscure stuff. It is a bit like looking for grains of gold on a beach, but there are some. Good times for music, IMO. (Even if it's sucky times for making money at it )
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2500
Lives for gear
 
O.F.F.'s Avatar
 

Spotify is great for obscure and old stuff I'd otherwise had no chance of coming across like Cumbia Amazonica (think Samba with surf guitars) from late '60s/'70s Peru.

But there are two things about it that pish me off no end:
The ludicrously low pay out to artists per play and the way my subscription money is doled out.

My subscription fee pays for roughly 10 000 tracks per month. However if I don't play 10k per month and I rarely do the left over cash is not distributed to artists in my play lists but to all based on total plays. So those who already get millions of plays and I don't care about still get a fair chunk of my money which is extremely annoying.
The way I get around that is putting my main playlist on an endless loop with the sound turned off while I sleep.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2501
Lives for gear
 
vincentvangogo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennybro View Post
True, anything is possible. Yet, I kind of doubt it. Most successful people I know tend to be considerably more at ease with themselves and those around them, and display a far more refined persona... even if they are huge a-holes at their core. I'm getting unaimed anger and self-loathing.
I think it's a mistake to assume everyone who is arrogant is secretly full of self-loathing. Many genuinely love themselves (regardless of their often scant achievements.) It's a classic trait of narcissism and sociopathy/psychopathy, which are both a lot more common than most realize.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2502
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
I think it's a mistake to assume everyone who is arrogant is secretly full of self-loathing. Many genuinely love themselves (regardless of their often scant achievements.) It's a classic trait of narcissism and sociopathy/psychopathy, which are both a lot more common than most realize.
Sure, I get what you're saying, and totally agree. Although this dude is hiding, dodging, misdirecting, etc... Unwilling to own up to his own ID. Seems that he's somewhat less enamored with himself than he would have us believe.

Although, yeah, assuming things about people you do not know more often than not leads to folly.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2503
Gear Addict
 
SonorPhonic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
I think it's a mistake to assume everyone who is arrogant is secretly full of self-loathing. Many genuinely love themselves (regardless of their often scant achievements.) It's a classic trait of narcissism and sociopathy/psychopathy, which are both a lot more common than most realize.
Want to know what's interesting? I'll tell you. I needed to go back 43 pages in this thread to find the original post that, still now, nobody has been able to prove wrong. That's interesting, to me. It's got absolutely nothing to do with arrogance, self-loathing, sociopathy, or psychopathy. It's got everything to do with the death of R&R, because everything has now been covered. It's all rehash from this point forward. And everyone knows it. Records and recordings gradually moved on to Clapton is God, Neil Diamond sells out arenas, The Side-Man Hall of Fame, Name That Tune, Drum-Tech, Inc., and now Psychology 101. Excellent! (hahaha) I told you before, the only thing left to do in music is Space Concerts. Who will be first? KISS? McCartney? Maybe Clapton? What? You have a new album to sell? A new music genre? Good luck! Mechanical royalties.

As a reminder, Dr. Freud, and to save you some time ... here's Page 41. I'm now off to the seven seas. I have some things to do, and some places to go. See you again in seven years, or not. Who cares? (hahaha) Kick me off this gear forum, or not. Nothing matters, and I do not actually care about a million opinions about where music is headed. I already know the answer. Have a nice day in Psyche 101.

Page 41:

"From my years of growing up with big-band swing jazz (Mom's collection), through all flavors of blues, rockabilly, pop, rock, metal, hip-hop, grunge, and edm ... there's NOTHING left to do. It's all been done. Nothing new on the horizon. There's only so many notes in a scale. There's only so many rhythms. Much like classical. It's all been done. There's nowhere to go, other than to shout nastier words and strip off more clothes. Yet even then, it has all been heard before. It has now come down to just consistent and repeated regurgitation of previous styles, without anything new to deliver.

"MUSIC" is finished. Rock n' Roll is finished. Blues is finished (long ago). Classical is finished (long ago). Reggae is finished. Jazz is finished (long ago). Country is now just rock with cowboy hats (i.e., finished). Hip-hop is finished. Grunge is finished. It's all done. Nothing more to say, that hasn't already been said.

The instruments that "changed" music were the Fender 6-string guitars and electric basses, the Gibson PAF-pickup guitars, Marshall / Fender amps, and electric keys/synths. There's nowhere new to go.

Keep writing and recording, if you want, but it's now a lost cause. Sad to say. People die, and new people arrive. So maybe a new "voice tone" I've never before heard will rise up. But who cares? So many great voices have already been put to tape.

Please prove me wrong.
"
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2504
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
Why do you feel the need to tell us in every post that you have "things to do, places to go," when it is very clear that you've devoted an inordinate amount of time to this specific thread?

Is not that a bit of a narcissistic type of thing to say?

As if anyone even really cares?

Why don't you go if you'd like to?

I'm expecting more posts.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2505
Lives for gear
 
robert82's Avatar
So . . . How 'bout those 49ers?!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2506
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
So . . . How 'bout those 49ers?!
Kinda going retro or vintage and wouldn’t mind a Chiefs win.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2507
Lives for gear
 
vincentvangogo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonorPhonic View Post
Want to know what's interesting? I'll tell you. I needed to go back 43 pages in this thread to find the original post that, still now, nobody has been able to prove wrong. That's interesting, to me. It's got absolutely nothing to do with arrogance, self-loathing, sociopathy, or psychopathy. It's got everything to do with the death of R&R, because everything has now been covered. It's all rehash from this point forward. And everyone knows it. Records and recordings gradually moved on to Clapton is God, Neil Diamond sells out arenas, The Side-Man Hall of Fame, Name That Tune, Drum-Tech, Inc., and now Psychology 101. Excellent! (hahaha) I told you before, the only thing left to do in music is Space Concerts. Who will be first? KISS? McCartney? Maybe Clapton? What? You have a new album to sell? A new music genre? Good luck! Mechanical royalties.

As a reminder, Dr. Freud, and to save you some time ... here's Page 41. I'm now off to the seven seas. I have some things to do, and some places to go. See you again in seven years, or not. Who cares? (hahaha) Kick me off this gear forum, or not. Nothing matters, and I do not actually care about a million opinions about where music is headed. I already know the answer. Have a nice day in Psyche 101.

Page 41:

"From my years of growing up with big-band swing jazz (Mom's collection), through all flavors of blues, rockabilly, pop, rock, metal, hip-hop, grunge, and edm ... there's NOTHING left to do. It's all been done. Nothing new on the horizon. There's only so many notes in a scale. There's only so many rhythms. Much like classical. It's all been done. There's nowhere to go, other than to shout nastier words and strip off more clothes. Yet even then, it has all been heard before. It has now come down to just consistent and repeated regurgitation of previous styles, without anything new to deliver.

"MUSIC" is finished. Rock n' Roll is finished. Blues is finished (long ago). Classical is finished (long ago). Reggae is finished. Jazz is finished (long ago). Country is now just rock with cowboy hats (i.e., finished). Hip-hop is finished. Grunge is finished. It's all done. Nothing more to say, that hasn't already been said.

The instruments that "changed" music were the Fender 6-string guitars and electric basses, the Gibson PAF-pickup guitars, Marshall / Fender amps, and electric keys/synths. There's nowhere new to go.

Keep writing and recording, if you want, but it's now a lost cause. Sad to say. People die, and new people arrive. So maybe a new "voice tone" I've never before heard will rise up. But who cares? So many great voices have already been put to tape.

Please prove me wrong.
"
That's a pretty lengthy post for someone who (apparently) doesn't care what others think, did I touch a nerve?

The real problem for me is that I actually agree with a lot of your points. I think you're overstating them somewhat, but I can enjoy that too, I like people who go against the crowd and are willing to stand up and be counted. Where you lost me is in the way you immediately got personal and vindictive the moment someone challenged you on some point. For me that is a massive red flag that the person has issues aside from the actual point they are arguing/defending.

So feel free to attack me any way you want, but I doubt it will have much effect. I'm pretty comfortable in my skin and I don't need yours or anyone else's validation to know my musical worth.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2508
Quote:
Originally Posted by clump View Post
.......The 70s were great though weren't they!
Not as great as the 60s. And that's from someone who remembers most of the 50s.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendocino beano View Post
This is the main act of the meltdown!

I don’t feel sorry for the guy at all. He’s been an annoyance and a troll and now he’s come out as a racist and a homophobe. Let him soak in it.
I wouldn't say I feel sorry for him. As folks have said, he's made his own troubles in this thread.

I guess I just sometimes find it hard to ignore my occasional impulse to try to pull someone back into the lifeboat of humanity. That said... I saw the Hitchcock movie.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2510
Gear Addict
 
SonorPhonic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
That's a pretty lengthy post for someone who (apparently) doesn't care what others think, did I touch a nerve?

The real problem for me is that I actually agree with a lot of your points. I think you're overstating them somewhat, but I can enjoy that too, I like people who go against the crowd and are willing to stand up and be counted. Where you lost me is in the way you immediately got personal and vindictive the moment someone challenged you on some point. For me that is a massive red flag that the person has issues aside from the actual point they are arguing/defending.

So feel free to attack me any way you want, but I doubt it will have much effect. I'm pretty comfortable in my skin and I don't need yours or anyone else's validation to know my musical worth.
That's cool, man. And, thanks for your nice (and cogent) reply. My response wasn't aimed directly at you. It was aimed at the psychology words that you posted ... and aimed at clearing some things up ... before clearing myself out of this thread. (hahaha)

The topic at hand can be discussed for years, and there is actually no worse place to present my viewpoints on such a topic than in a gear forum full of GearSlutz that love gear and have dreams. I'm a Type A personality, and those of us from the Northeast US speak very directly at times. No lefts, and no rights. It's straight on!

Cheers, and speaking of Straight On, I like that song, and I actually learned how to play drums listening to people like Michael Derosier. A really under-rated "great" drummer. Later saw him play live at the Cotton Bowl (Dallas) in '79 -- Texxas Jam II. Really great show. Great drummer! Now I really am gone! Sayonara!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOoz...&frags=pl%2Cwn
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2511
Lives for gear
 
Fay Smearing's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonorPhonic View Post

Page 41:

"From my years of growing up with big-band swing jazz (Mom's collection), through all flavors of blues, rockabilly, pop, rock, metal, hip-hop, grunge, and edm ... there's NOTHING left to do. It's all been done. Nothing new on the horizon. There's only so many notes in a scale. There's only so many rhythms. Much like classical. It's all been done. There's nowhere to go, other than to shout nastier words and strip off more clothes. Yet even then, it has all been heard before. It has now come down to just consistent and repeated regurgitation of previous styles, without anything new to deliver.

"MUSIC" is finished. Rock n' Roll is finished. Blues is finished (long ago). Classical is finished (long ago). Reggae is finished. Jazz is finished (long ago). Country is now just rock with cowboy hats (i.e., finished). Hip-hop is finished. Grunge is finished. It's all done. Nothing more to say, that hasn't already been said.

The instruments that "changed" music were the Fender 6-string guitars and electric basses, the Gibson PAF-pickup guitars, Marshall / Fender amps, and electric keys/synths. There's nowhere new to go.

Keep writing and recording, if you want, but it's now a lost cause. Sad to say. People die, and new people arrive. So maybe a new "voice tone" I've never before heard will rise up. But who cares? So many great voices have already been put to tape.

Please prove me wrong.
"
The points I've bolded would be pretty much my summation.

First one is supposed to be the claim.

Second cites some examples of your own of how things changed in the past in ways that no one saw coming. It happened before, and you've yet to explain how it can't happen again. The burden of proof falls on the person making the claim.

The third bolded point essentially concedes it can happen again, but that even if it does, "Who cares?"

Whether anyone cares or likes whatever it may be is irrelevant - it'll have happened, and your pretend argument is shown to be just that by such a childish and obvious evasion melded with your comment that clearly undermines your own very poorly attempted assertion.

Your own post concedes that it's happened before and that it can happen again, so you're absolutely right.

No one needs to prove you wrong because you don't even believe this patently ridiculous claim yourself.

It's almost as though you want to be humiliated, but are becoming increasingly frustrated by not having been able to drag people down to exhibiting the emotional maturity of a nine-year-old, which is something you've been displaying both in the clumsy approach and the attendant insults, evasions and empty posturing when people have responded levelly to "Prove me wrong...".
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2512
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
I think if you had the time and inclination, you could weave a thread through every decade since the 60s and find fun, inspiring, complex, heartfelt music. It doesn't seem to be easy, with so much of it being dreck. But it's there. Heck, I'm so behind the tech thing, I only discovered Spotify a few months ago ( I mean, I knew it existed) - I can call up just about anything I want in seconds. Albums I hadn't heard in 40 years - obscure stuff. It is a bit like looking for grains of gold on a beach, but there are some. Good times for music, IMO. (Even if it's sucky times for making money at it )
I discovered the world of subscription streaming around 15 years ago. It really helped me rediscover so much music that had previously been all but lost to me. Of course, we all wish it would pay musicians and writers more; I can understand why it was so controversial for so long; I'm glad it's finally begun to demonstrate its usefulness to musicians and the industry.

Probably some of the most important to me of that music is music from the pre-WWII era of early jazz and blues and the hottest days of the swing era... but it also allowed me to finally explore a lot of the music of my own youth that I would have added to my collection at the time (if I'd been making about 100x more money than the $1.20 an hour from my first job, flipping burgers by the Newport Beach pier [see, we all have our own brags -- I imagine if your first job was at a McDonalds in Des Moines, you're really jealous now ).

But it's also helped me discover a number of recent artists, as well. A big part of my love of contemporary Americana and neo-roots music took off after I started using streaming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by O.F.F. View Post
Spotify is great for obscure and old stuff I'd otherwise had no chance of coming across like Cumbia Amazonica (think Samba with surf guitars) from late '60s/'70s Peru.

But there are two things about it that pish me off no end:
The ludicrously low pay out to artists per play and the way my subscription money is doled out.

My subscription fee pays for roughly 10 000 tracks per month. However if I don't play 10k per month and I rarely do the left over cash is not distributed to artists in my play lists but to all based on total plays. So those who already get millions of plays and I don't care about still get a fair chunk of my money which is extremely annoying.
The way I get around that is putting my main playlist on an endless loop with the sound turned off while I sleep.
I'm thinking you're talking genre, but cumbia is another chunk of music I'd never had a chance to explore before, as well. One of my faves in that field is titled, Cumbia Amazonica, by Los Mirlos, in fact.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2513
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
I think it's a mistake to assume everyone who is arrogant is secretly full of self-loathing. Many genuinely love themselves (regardless of their often scant achievements.) It's a classic trait of narcissism and sociopathy/psychopathy, which are both a lot more common than most realize.
I'm not sure "love" is the right verb. But such folks often seem to have a sense of self-importance -- an exaggerated sense of their own social value and professional or other skills and abilities. And, of course, when one really knows such a person, it's often all but impossible to miss the core of insecurity at the center of the exaggerated personality the person has constructed to mask a fear of inadequacy. (Geez... I sound like I ate a bad psych text book for breakfast.) But, anyhow, not "love" in the healthy sense of affection, empathy and caring we hopefully feel for key others in our life, I wouldn't say.

To be honest, I had some serious empathy issues growing up, I feel, without question. I always knew intellectually that others had feelings but until I had been in a serious relationship with another human for several years, I had no idea how very different we all are. I'd expected everyone to have the same leathery personality I'd developed -- I thought if I treated them as roughly as I expected to be treated, it would be OK... I could not have been more wrong and it's a source of regret and sorrow to this day. But we live; hopefully we grow and learn.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2514
Lives for gear
 
robert82's Avatar
On Spotify, just spent the last hour with Paul Butterfield, Electric Flag, Buddy Miles, Sons of Champlin, a touch of the Airplane, and the Dead's best (IMO) album, "Anthem of the Sun". A mini journey triggered by an old GS thread on Wally Heider's studio in SF. Once had all the vinyl . . . it got warped in my car 40 years ago in central Cali on a very hot day.

And yes, the 60s were better.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2515
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
On Spotify, just spent the last hour with Paul Butterfield, Electric Flag, Buddy Miles, Sons of Champlin, a touch of the Airplane, and the Dead's best (IMO) album, "Anthem of the Sun". A mini journey triggered by an old GS thread on Wally Heider's studio in SF. Once had all the vinyl . . . it got warped in my car 40 years ago in central Cali on a very hot day.

And yes, the 60s were better.
It was a time of furious change... we probably 'needed' to chill out in the 70s as the Vietnam war was winding down. After having one's head turned inside out and his soul psychedelicized for a decade of tumult, it was kind of nice to kick back with a nice, slow groove from someone like War. Play your harmonica, son...


(Of course, by 1975, I was bored crazy and desperate for some big changes in the music scene... but that's another chapter.)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2516
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

I've been asking myself "what changed?" for years. Something interesting to me is that musicians' wages peaked in the 1960s when adjusted for inflation. I don't think the so-called '60s magic was simply an accident. (I was never a professional musician )
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2517
Wow I missed a lot while being in the studio for a couple of days. lol. Not to mention working on understanding proper Facebook advertising, Split A/B testing, and all of the other fun crap that goes along with DIY in this business.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2518
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentvangogo View Post
The real problem for me is that I actually agree with a lot of your points. I think you're overstating them somewhat...
Right, I also do not completely disagree with these ideas. I think that the kind of popular music we all know has pretty much had it as far as new styles being created. IMO, everything was already in place by the early 70's, or at least the mid/late 70's when Rap dropped.

I'm not sure what could happen next and new... like nobody expected punk when Iggy and MC5 appeared; nobody expected metal when Sabbath emerged; nobody expected alternative before Lou Reed and that crowd; And 1966 was the first looping with Tomorrow Never Knows. Stan Free/Hot Butter nailed synth pop by 72. Add a few other things like Blues Rock, and since then, it's pretty much been combining these basic elements into hybrids. We're talking 40+ years ago.

But what amazes me, and what keeps pumping life into popular music is the melodic creativity of artists. Like Beck's Uneventful Days. No, it's not a new genre of popular music, and we probably won't be discussing it in 20 years like we discuss Sgt Peppers, but its melodic simplicity is a revelation, and it's a joy to hear. It's astounding and great that something so simple and derivative can also sound so fresh and delightful.

I recall first hearing Nevermind. I was familiar with Melvins, Mike Watt and a few others, but this was a new dimension. That's what amazes... that a Nevermind can appear, and you have no idea when or where from. That's what keeps me playing, recording and enjoying music. Not waiting for someone to create a whole new genre. That's probably not going to happen.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2519
Apologies to those enjoying the entertainment.

Personal insults aside, I have a very low tolerance for homophobia. Cal it PC if you like, I call it being nice. Mr Sonorphonic is banned for a few weeks - he’s welcome to his musical views, he’s not entitled to express his social views.

Please report him if he returns in this manner!

Thanks
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2520
Spotify....
Rather oddly, there is quite a bit of music (old and some current) I can't get through Spotify.
Some 1970's and 80's jazz. Some 1990's electronica.
One of the best Kenny Larkin (90's techno) albums on Warp is not on there. Virtually no Speedy J (also 90's techno).
The first Azimuth album (late 70's contemporary jazz on ECM Records).


However, I keep coming back to this. There is absolutely zero wrong with streaming. the problem is, film & tv did it right. There is no free platform, and there is no - all the film & tv ever made.
So while iTunes, Pandora and Spotify pay very little, and fund NO new content. Netflix, Apple TV and Amazon prime have spent huge amounts on new content such as The Crown and Grand Tour (Top Gear, whatever they call it).
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