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"Records" vs. "Recordings"
Old 3 days ago
  #1621
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SonorPhonic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JL1000 View Post
Jeez. Some people here. I thought this was a lighthearted conversation ... .
It is for me! And, will continue TO be. No need to get upset about anything. It's a gear forum, for Kryste sake. Let's now sing some songs, "Whatever gets you through the night ..." ..... "If you can't be with one you love, love the one you're with!"
Old 3 days ago
  #1622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonorPhonic View Post
It is for me! And, will continue TO be. No need to get upset about anything. It's a gear forum, for Kryste sake. Let's now sing some songs, "Whatever gets you through the night ..." ..... "If you can't be with one you love, love the one you're with!"
For the record, I don't think you are a problem at all. I think you're funny and I think those same people are taking what you say way too seriously.

'salright 'salright.
Old 3 days ago
  #1623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JL1000 View Post
For the record, I don't think you are a problem at all. I think you're funny and I think those same people are taking what you say way too seriously.

'salright 'salright.
Thanks! Same here. I think that the people who get emotionally upset about my "rock is dead" comments are those who are:

1) Current engineers / Indie producers / Promoters
2) Struggling young artists
3) Older / elderly failed artists
4) Current private studio owners

.... i.e., anyone who is still dreaming of (or currently is) making a buck in the music biz.

Hey, what time is it? I gotta go mix some songs. Ciao
Old 3 days ago
  #1624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonorPhonic View Post
Thanks! Same here. I think that the people who get emotionally upset about my "rock is dead" comments are those who are:

1) Current engineers / Indie producers / Promoters
2) Struggling young artists
3) Older / elderly failed artists
4) Current private studio owners

.... i.e., anyone who is still dreaming of (or currently is) making a buck in the music biz.
Could be.

Quote:
Hey, what time is it? I gotta go mix some songs. Ciao
Have fun. That's what it's (supposed to be) all about.
Old 3 days ago
  #1625
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vernier's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonorPhonic View Post
Revolver! Overall, my favorite Beatles album. The overdubs are brilliant. Glad they got all the songs finished and arranged before hitting the record button.

Under headphones, very cool. Under headphones after getting stoned, even cooler. Like new information. To me, nothing like this since. Ciao.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHNb...&frags=pl%2Cwn
Find an original vinyl from 1966 to hear it right.

That applies to all their records, imo.
Old 3 days ago
  #1626
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
And FWIW, I think that one of the most brilliant single lines in a song -- ever -- is in a radio hit that isn't even five years old yet. And one of the songwriters was Justin Bieber.
I have to know what this line is... please do tell
Old 3 days ago
  #1627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vernier View Post
Find an original vinyl from 1966 to hear it right.

That applies to all their records, imo.
Yeah, I know. And, 8-track tapes were also OK, back in the day. I always had the vinyl first. Later got the 8-tracks for my car.
Old 3 days ago
  #1628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
I have to know what this line is... please do tell
"My mama don't like you... and she likes everyone."
Old 3 days ago
  #1629
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonorPhonic View Post
Thanks! Same here. I think that the people who get emotionally upset about my "rock is dead" comments are those who are:

1) Current engineers / Indie producers / Promoters
2) Struggling young artists
3) Older / elderly failed artists
4) Current private studio owners

.... i.e., anyone who is still dreaming of (or currently is) making a buck in the music biz.

Hey, what time is it? I gotta go mix some songs. Ciao
I guess I fall into 1 and sort of 4 (I have a “studio” though it’s just my tool, not a commercial enterprise).

I don’t think you’ve said “rock is dead”. You said “music is dead” or at least, nothing new is being written and the best stuff is in the past?

To which the general response has been “no - you just prefer the old stuff and that’s ok, but don’t dismiss things you don’t necessarily like/understand/have no knowledge of”.

For the record, given your qualifications stated previously (playing whiskey a go go etc) I’d put you in category 3...which sounds harsh and isn’t meant to, since being signed to a major and “failing” isn’t necessarily a judgement on anyone except the major label, but if you’ve been signed, recorded at posh studios and haven’t “made it” then I guess there’s no other conclusion!

I still don’t think that without showing how you’ve done it better, you can slate every current songwriter. I’m certainly no hotshot myself though I’ve got a couple of things done I’d rate - but I get to hang out with some amazing and prolific pop writers, including a few from my adopted country who’re mostly in the US now - Sarah Arryns (I’ve probably misspelt that - topliner extraordinaire), Jon Hume (who wrote with Dean Lewis - 2bn streams worldwide), Louis Schoorl (probably the nicest, most encouraging and generous man you’ll ever meet - also part of JAXSTA in my .sig), and a number if others - and if you can do what they do, you’d be having hits.
Old 3 days ago
  #1630
Gear Maniac
 
JL1000's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Jon Hume (who wrote with Dean Lewis - 2bn streams worldwide)
For the hell of it, I looked up this person and found one of their hit songs. As I was playing it, a person here in this room (someone who likes pop music a lot) said "all those songs sound the same!"

Not putting it down, or you, or the songwriter, or artist or anyone.

And as far as this argument goes, I'm on neither side.

I just thought that was funny.



P.S. clicking on your Jaxsta link, I get a "this site can't be reached".
Old 3 days ago
  #1631
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Funny Cat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL1000 View Post
For the hell of it, I looked up this person and found one of their hit songs. As I was playing it, a person here in this room (someone who likes pop music a lot) said "all those songs sound the same!"

Not putting it down, or you, or the songwriter, or artist or anyone.

And as far as this argument goes, I'm on neither side.

I just thought that was funny.



Hmmm....I SWEAR I have heard that intro piano lick somewhere (other than this song). I can't put my finger on it right now but it will come to me...
Old 3 days ago
  #1632
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post
Hmmm....I SWEAR I have heard that intro piano lick somewhere (other than this song). I can't put my finger on it right now but it will come to me...
I don't know if you can put your finger on it as I think it's been done a bazillion times!

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Old 3 days ago
  #1633
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL1000 View Post
For the hell of it, I looked up this person and found one of their hit songs. As I was playing it, a person here in this room (someone who likes pop music a lot) said "all those songs sound the same!"

Not putting it down, or you, or the songwriter, or artist or anyone.

And as far as this argument goes, I'm on neither side.

I just thought that was funny.



P.S. clicking on your Jaxsta link, I get a "this site can't be reached".
Thanks for the heads up on Jaxsta. that's a weird GS thing - my link is correct, but GS isn't dealing with it!

https://jaxsta.com/profile/f880abfc-...7d5e/catalogue

I don't know JP Cooper. "Be Alright" and "Waves" are the 2 big Dean Lewis songs...which don't really sound the same to me (as songs)!

What "all these songs" sound the same - if you were just playing one? I don't understand...
Old 3 days ago
  #1634
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post

What "all these songs" sound the same - if you were just playing one? I don't understand...
There are many songs that sound just like that one, the piano, the melody, etc.
Old 3 days ago
  #1635
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post
Hmmm....I SWEAR I have heard that intro piano lick somewhere (other than this song). I can't put my finger on it right now but it will come to me...
that's what I always think of as a "four chord pop song"

closely related to I - IV - V chords in a major scale

there are a million versions of this out there as someone just sort of said, all with subtle differences

you just know it when you smell it I guess, it's got a certain stink on it

some people were making videos a while back of all the popular songs with identical chords, "oh oh oh's" and things like that. Country songs that can literally be played at the same time, etc. This is one of those things.
Old 3 days ago
  #1636
Lives for gear
 
vincentvangogo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
"My mama don't like you... and she likes everyone."
That's the one I thought it would be. It's pretty much the only line of his I know, but it's a good one.
Old 3 days ago
  #1637
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Crikey.

Music is not a sport.
I have never bought into this naive idea that technical ability trumps any other aspect of creativity.
I think if Miles Davis was posting in this thread I'm 100% sure he would acknowledge the genius of McCartney. And Paul would likewise acknowledge Davis.
There is a HUGE skill involved in crafting a 3 minute piece of music that both stands the test of time AND connects with a massive global audience.
Great jazz musicians have covered much of McCartney's music. It is the most recent popular music that has become a jazz 'standard'.

Miles obviously saw merit in Cyndy Lauper and Michael Jackson. The great thing about Miles which is missing in this thread is a deep understanding of the power of all genres of music, not just the niche attraction of technical ability.
Indeed.
Old 3 days ago
  #1638
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vernier's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonorPhonic View Post
Yeah, I know. And, 8-track tapes were also OK, back in the day. I always had the vinyl first. Later got the 8-tracks for my car.
You mean the cartridges? ..yep they sounded big. I installed a Muntz in our Buick Skylark ..this was in 1966! lol.
Old 2 days ago
  #1639
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chrischoir's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JL1000 View Post
There are many songs that sound just like that .
Definitely, thats the same formulae that has been used for 30 years now
Old 2 days ago
  #1640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vernier View Post
Find an original vinyl from 1966 to hear it right.
The vinyl records from back then sound awful. The remasters are decent though, since they actually have some low end warmth and cleaner mids. The CDs don't have that 400hz boxiness notorious on old Beatles's Vinyls.
Old 2 days ago
  #1641
Lives for gear
 
chrischoir's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnorionsound View Post
I headlined Viper Room one NYE, if we’re zooming in on the strip. Got paid $10,000 for it.

I don’t see what that has to do with a single thing being discussed in this thread. Psycho Monkey has won Australia’s equivalent of a Grammy. Chrisso has a very long and successful history. Many here have worked in top studios, with top musicians, have hit the charts, and gigged around the world. These are special things, but not THAT special. There are 40 top 40 songs every single week, there are millions of venues to play every week, the top studios book out to multiple acts each with multiple people every week.

So what? These things are supposed to qualify you for repeatedly shooting out negative opinions for that which you proudly admit you’re entirely ignorant of? Embarrassing.

Why is (unintentional, somehow) trollbait like this so hard to ignore. We’re all wasting our time.
So accolades mean you are suddenly off limits from someone disagreeing? Listen everyone on GS respects PsychoMonkey and Chrisso not only for their industry cred but also cuz they are decent people it seems, but that doesn't mean someone can't disagree with them. Secondly, it's doubtful either of those chaps need you to defend them. juss sayin'

As long as people are being somewhat polite/respectful, no one is off limits IMO
Old 2 days ago
  #1642
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kennybro's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
that's what I always think of as a "four chord pop song"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...IV_progression
Old 2 days ago
  #1643
Gear Maniac
 
SonorPhonic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vernier View Post
You mean the cartridges? ..yep they sounded big. I installed a Muntz in our Buick Skylark ..this was in 1966! lol.
Yup, if we’re talking about the same thing. In America, we called them 8-track tapes. That was mid ‘70s. In the late ‘70s, everyone upgraded to Pioneer AM/FM Cassette decks for their car, many times with an additional power booster (amp).

The 8-track tapes always eventually got worn out, or eaten by the deck. Sometimes the deck just sucked after a while. We all learned the “book of matches” trick, which was often needed to make the 8-track tape play well when in the deck. You put the tape in, then when the sound sucks, you stuff a book of matches into the deck to make the tape play.
Old 2 days ago
  #1644
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
So accolades mean you are suddenly off limits from someone disagreeing?
You must have quickly skimmed things. My point was the opposite.

My post you quoted directly says "I don’t see what that (accolades) has to do with a single thing being discussed in this thread."

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
Listen everyone on GS respects PsychoMonkey and Chrisso not only for their industry cred but also cuz they are decent people it seems, but that doesn't mean someone can't disagree with them. Secondly, it's doubtful either of those chaps need you to defend them. juss sayin'

As long as people are being somewhat polite/respectful, no one is off limits IMO
I wasn't defending anyone.
Old 2 days ago
  #1645
Gear Maniac
 
SonorPhonic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnorionsound View Post
He was saying people don't know what they were talking about ...
That's not what I was saying. I was pointing out that the end of modern contemporary music genres is now here, in general. What I've done, and where I've done it, means nothing. Similarly, what you've done, and where you've done it, means nothing to me. All I'm talking about is the death of rock and roll, in a broad macro sense. Everything has now been done.

Unless some new instrument is invented, nothing will change for the next 5, 10, or even 20 years; i.e., no NEW BIG WORLD-SHATTERING MUSIC GENRE. With the musical instruments that are currently available, it ... has ... now ... all ... been ... done, and by stunningly great writers and performers. And, it all went by very quickly (call it, 70 years).

Will there continue to be new dreadlock styles, new words inked on faces, new cup sizes, and new booty dances? Sure. That's nothing new, ever since Elvis.

With all things in life, follow the money. It usually leads to the answer. This is a "gear" website. Who advertises here? Who would be upset if someone like me stepped in with the opinion that rock has "run its course"? Think about it.

Cheers, amigo.
Old 2 days ago
  #1646
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonorPhonic View Post
That's not what I was saying. I was pointing out that the end of modern contemporary music genres is now here, in general. What I've done, and where I've done it, means nothing. Similarly, what you've done, and where you've done it, means nothing to me. All I'm talking about is the death of rock and roll, in a broad macro sense. Everything has now been done.

Unless some new instrument is invented, nothing will change for the next 5, 10, or even 20 years; i.e., no NEW BIG WORLD-SHATTERING MUSIC GENRE. With the musical instruments that are currently available, it ... has ... now ... all ... been ... done, and by stunningly great writers and performers. And, it all went by very quickly (call it, 70 years).

Will there continue to be new dreadlock styles, new words inked on faces, new cup sizes, and new booty dances? Sure. That's nothing new, ever since Elvis.

With all things in life, follow the money. It usually leads to the answer. This is a "gear" website. Who advertises here? Who would be upset if someone like me stepped in with the opinion that rock has "run its course"? Think about it.

Cheers, amigo.
I simplified my post but you caught the first one.

I agree with you here, the world-shattering elements of last century were largely due to technology opening up entirely new playing fields. So much of it was completely brand new to the human experience, throughout the century. That side of things has plateaued, or at least is in a much much less steep incline.

I made that point too, here: "Records" vs. "Recordings"

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnorionsound View Post
You're not gonna get "I've never heard this at all before!" because of a DX7 or Linn Drum or multitracking or new guitar tone or new synth tone. People got used to hearing both completely brand new sounds AND emotional expression. The latter is what's essential though. The former had to do with the rollout of the discovery of recorded and electronic sound.
But the point of music isn't about that. Music is about emotional expression and connection with people. So plenty of great music will come.
Old 2 days ago
  #1647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnorionsound View Post
You must have quickly skimmed things. My point was the opposite.

My post you quoted directly says "I don’t see what that (accolades) has to do with a single thing being discussed in this thread."



I wasn't defending anyone.
ok I must have mis-understood
Old 2 days ago
  #1648
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
that's what I always think of as a "four chord pop song"

closely related to I - IV - V chords in a major scale

there are a million versions of this out there as someone just sort of said, all with subtle differences

you just know it when you smell it I guess, it's got a certain stink on it

some people were making videos a while back of all the popular songs with identical chords, "oh oh oh's" and things like that. Country songs that can literally be played at the same time, etc. This is one of those things.
I realize the point at hand was about the writing itself - but sameness soars in all it's auto tuned glory as well. Who knows what he'd sound like without all the obvious help. Or maybe this is one of those congruency deals. But the warbley artifice walks all over whatever distinctive quality he himself is bringing...which laid bare might be unlistenable itself as well. But at least it's *perfect*.

But, you know, we're just not getting it. Never mind the stink, wherever it is we find it. We're just not giving it a fair chance. We'd actually maybe learn to appreciate it more if we'd just get down and roll around in it, rub it all over our bodies. A smell, a taste is not a fair sampling - only once we've gorged ourselves will we know and understand it's quality...or be desensitized to it.

And really, not to forget, if we're at all critical of the fare being offered it instantly means we've hardened up with age.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was raised classical by classical musician parents and made the better part of my living that way as well. There's music there I get...maybe a bit too well. But there I was learning the guitar part to "Rock And Roll" at 14 when I acquired The Song Remains The Same. Foreign as it was to my ears, (I remember it seemed like dirty music to me for a while, not nasty - dirty, just raw and kinda greasy) there was something there that was instantly appealing to me.

And I kept up with trends with a few exceptions for many years. I remember when a girl friend turned me on to Metallica (Black Album) and I thought wow, HEAVY. And the entire album is in E minor. Yeoooow. But there was a definite appeal to it right away that hooked me, and in no time at all I'd gotten out my violin and learned their language as well, as was the case with many bands and artists I encountered over the years

White Zombie - the same. I mean, like, Rob knows about 4 or 5 notes and he can sing some of them in tune from time to time. He's a sort of somewhat intonated cheer leader. (sorry Rob, just glad you aren't all warbley) but again, nothing off putting to the point where I couldn't dig the vibe.

But somewhere in the early 2000's it happened, I guess, at least as far as music that can't be avoided is concerned. I congealed at smashed up against the wall guitars x1000 and autotune all over the place. Not for any sort of valid reason, but just simply the ravages of age setting in. Turned to stone just like that.

Darn. My loss, I'm sure.
Old 2 days ago
  #1649
Gear Maniac
 
JL1000's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GearFiddler View Post
I realize the point at hand was about the writing itself - but sameness soars in all it's auto tuned glory as well. Who knows what he'd sound like without all the obvious help. Or maybe this is one of those congruency deals. But the warbley artifice walks all over whatever distinctive quality he himself is bringing...which laid bare might be unlistenable itself as well. But at least it's *perfect*.

But, you know, we're just not getting it. Never mind the stink, wherever it is we find it. We're just not giving it a fair chance. We'd actually maybe learn to appreciate it more if we'd just get down and roll around in it, rub it all over our bodies. A smell, a taste is not a fair sampling - only once we've gorged ourselves will we know and understand it's quality...or be desensitized to it.

And really, not to forget, if we're at all critical of the fare being offered it instantly means we've hardened up with age.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was raised classical by classical musician parents and made the better part of my living that way as well. There's music there I get...maybe a bit too well. But there I was learning the guitar part to "Rock And Roll" at 14 when I acquired The Song Remains The Same. Foreign as it was to my ears, (I remember it seemed like dirty music to me for a while, not nasty - dirty, just raw and kinda greasy) there was something there that was instantly appealing to me.

And I kept up with trends with a few exceptions for many years. I remember when a girl friend turned me on to Metallica (Black Album) and I thought wow, HEAVY. And the entire album is in E minor. Yeoooow. But there was a definite appeal to it right away that hooked me, and in no time at all I'd gotten out my violin and learned their language as well, as was the case with many bands and artists I encountered over the years

White Zombie - the same. I mean, like, Rob knows about 4 or 5 notes and he can sing some of them in tune from time to time. He's a sort of somewhat intonated cheer leader. (sorry Rob, just glad you aren't all warbley) but again, nothing off putting to the point where I couldn't dig the vibe.

But somewhere in the early 2000's it happened, I guess, at least as far as music that can't be avoided is concerned. I congealed at smashed up against the wall guitars x1000 and autotune all over the place. Not for any sort of valid reason, but just simply the ravages of age setting in. Turned to stone just like that.

Darn. My loss, I'm sure.
Maybe. Or maybe it's just not all that good and many songs really do sound the same and don't really have all that much to offer. But a lot of people like these songs because they're there.

There's a lot of music from the past (in the golden age that I very much admire) that I don't like at all.

And like I was trying to get at before, many thought The Beatles were the worst thing ever, no talent and everything sounds the same and it's all just yeah yeah yeah and wooh wooh wooh and it's really stupid and horrible and the kids who like it are brain dead and deaf.

Even though I like The Beatles and think they are the best ever, complete geniuses, and even though they proved themselves to most of the world, I get what they mean. I can see how, if you thought Nat King Cole or Gershwin or so many others were great and talented and could really sing and play beautiful music, The Beatles do, in a way, seem pretty stupid.

I do hope people get what I'm saying and don't have a heart attack.
Old 2 days ago
  #1650
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL1000 View Post
Maybe. Or maybe it's just not all that good and many songs really do sound the same and don't really have all that much to offer. But a lot of people like these songs because they're there.

There's a lot of music from the past (in the golden age that I very much admire) that I don't like at all.

And like I was trying to get at before, many thought The Beatles were the worst thing ever, no talent and everything sounds the same and it's all just yeah yeah yeah and wooh wooh wooh and it's really stupid and horrible and the kids who like it are brain dead and deaf.

Even though I like The Beatles and think they are the best ever, complete geniuses, and even though they proved themselves to most of the world, I get what they mean. I can see how, if you thought Nat King Cole or Gershwin or so many others were great and talented and could really sing and play beautiful music, The Beatles do, in a way, seem pretty stupid.

I do hope people get what I'm saying and don't have a heart attack.
It seems possible to me that some sarcasm on my part may have been a bit too veiled. I actually do not dismiss my aversion to what I've heard in recent years to my age. And I take exception to the notion that anyone past a certain age that finds themselves at a loss has just arrived at old and crotchety.

But even if I have seized up, the people who shouldn't have a coronary IMO are the 'young whippersnappers' that like the stuff. It's part of the right of passage after all, isn't it? If the older generations don't like it that's all for the better, right? Or is that sweeping generalization no longer in order? Maybe just even an exception once in a while?

Man, my old man the voice professor hated rock and roll. Popular music from Elvis on was despised. I was in my room listening to Pink Floyd's "The Great Gig In The Sky" one day, Clare Tory, so beautiful I'm thinking when he opened the door and stuck in his head to say, "How can a son of mine listen to that crap!"

A few days later it was Kansas Masque when he did pretty much the same thing. I was a bit more ready for him. I walked over to the turntable and lifted off the record and winged it at him. He ducked behind the door a bit as it smashed against it breaking into lots of pieces. I could see him smiling though. Mission accomplished. Out a cool record I was, but the satisfaction was just as much mine.

Anyway, I think I get what you are saying. We may in fact be in agreement for the most part. There was plenty of music that I wasn't on board with along the way too. I just reject the idea that I'm not open minded enough...outright.
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