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Behringer Wing - a new digital mixer or something more (else)?
Old 18th November 2019
  #61
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leveuho View Post
I don't get tjis USB 2.0 interfacing. Being so packed with i/o, no Thunderbolt, no Dante to PC? USB 2.0 with that kind of a beast? Can anybody explain it to me?
USB 2 has plenty enough bandwidth for 48 channels.
Old 18th November 2019
  #62
DGL
Lives for gear
As for effects, in the same company they have both Klark Teknik and TC Electronics so I think there will be someone somewhere that knows how to make good effects

No pricing yet but as for release date, according to FB shipping (from their Chinese factory) starts in December,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behringer FB
We proudly present WING - our full stereo 144 I/O digital mixing console.
A big hug to all our amazing customers for supporting us in the past 30 years and congratulations to our German Innovation team for delivering this wonderful console and all other teams who have contributed. I couldn't be more proud of all of you.
Best of all, we'll start shipping from our factory coming December.
Uli
Old 18th November 2019
  #63
Gear Addict
So is it 96K? (Edit- found this from the Moderator at the Music Tribe Behringer site)

Answering a query asking if the sample rate used is 96K, Paul said…
“No. 44K and 48K. AES50 at 96 kHz cuts the channel count in half. Many of us prefer the larger channel count to the higher clock rate. Of course they could have gone to a different protocol. But that would mean that the investment in the stageboxes, etc. would be made obsolete.

Also the price there is rumoured to be $3500 USD

https://community.musictribe.com/t5/...t/true/page/12

Last edited by SLiC; 18th November 2019 at 10:41 AM.. Reason: added info
Old 18th November 2019
  #64
Gear Head
 
n13L5's Avatar
Yes! And like with Waves Soundgrid, you can never get out to analogue....
at least not without prior digital protocol conversions at $2k a pop ^^
Old 18th November 2019
  #65
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gravyface's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antti H View Post
USB 2 has plenty enough bandwidth for 48 channels.
At 48KHz, 24-bit, but that's enough for some.
Old 18th November 2019
  #66
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gravyface's Avatar
As a Qu-24 owner, this looks like a more refined, expanded mixing interface vs. more tracking/live focus of the Qu-series. I am more excited about the SQ-series than this, however.
Old 18th November 2019
  #67
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
As a Qu-24 owner, this looks like a more refined, expanded mixing interface vs. more tracking/live focus of the Qu-series. I am more excited about the SQ-series than this, however.
Yup- SQ-5 is a good price point (around 2K) and SOS loved it!
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/allen-heath-sq-5
Its one of the reasons I think the WING will ned to hit a realy sweat price point (not 96K and just 8 mike pres.)
Old 18th November 2019
  #68
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLiC View Post
So is it 96K? (Edit- found this from the Moderator at the Music Tribe Behringer site)

Answering a query asking if the sample rate used is 96K, Paul said…
“No. 44K and 48K. AES50 at 96 kHz cuts the channel count in half. Many of us prefer the larger channel count to the higher clock rate. Of course they could have gone to a different protocol. But that would mean that the investment in the stageboxes, etc. would be made obsolete.

Also the price there is rumoured to be $3500 USD

https://community.musictribe.com/t5/...t/true/page/12

this actually makes the most cents to me..

Last edited by RightOnRome; 18th November 2019 at 08:24 PM..
Old 18th November 2019
  #69
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLiC View Post

Also the price there is rumoured to be $3500 USD

https://community.musictribe.com/t5/...t/true/page/12


Given their primary customer base, beginner/intermediate level, It will be interesting to see the sales figures on this product. I can't imagine the Behringer fanbase who pride themselves on $299 Model D synths gloating about this pricepoint.
Old 18th November 2019
  #70
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VenVile View Post
Listen, even if they get some software control from various manufacturers (like SSL or Waves), that would be amazing.
I think going with the same old same would be a mistake, especially waves, everybody already has them and most are moving away over WUP and other shenanigans
Old 18th November 2019
  #71
Lives for gear
Sweetwater hands-on demo (Nb $3500usd on Sweetwater's site) :
https://youtu.be/FeEzW3X85-E
Old 18th November 2019
  #72
yup!!! Lights on the back!!
Old 18th November 2019
  #73
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightOnRome View Post
yup!!! Lights on the back!!
Lights everywhere!
Old 18th November 2019
  #74
DGL
Lives for gear
inc. 20% VAT, 2,999€

https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_wing.htm
Old 18th November 2019
  #75
Gear Addict
It’s a nice desk at a fair price, but it is t cheap and it has some serious competition. When the dust settles I am not sure it will be a runaway success like the x32 was.
Old 19th November 2019
  #76
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sleepyhollos's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leveuho View Post
The way Behringer is making clones, well. They made a full business strategy based on making and selling clones, I don't think there's any other company doing it on such scale. Ok, we have software emulations of analog hardware, we may call them clones, they come from UAD, Plugin Alliance, Waves, but these are made with copyright/intellectual property respect and often involve original makers in the process (Distressor is a great example of such case).

There is also Stam Audio, Warm Audio and some others and you know what? I won't buy their cloned stuff, the same way I never bought a clone from Behringer. This is intellectual thievery, as simple as that. Neve, Teletronix, Pultec, API, Korg, Roland, ARP and many other companies and people around them dedicated their lives to create some of the most amazing instruments and processors of all times. Then a some audio guys discovered that making clones, renaming them a bit (or not - vide Behringer Odyssey), while sticking to original architectures, designs, electric circuits and all electronic parts, without paying any licensing, is possible and profitable.

Guys from ARP recreated their Odyssey together with Korg. A year later Uli came and said - I'll make it just cheaper and you won't stop me, let's just f*ck your work and heritage!

This is the part of Behringer's business I'll never accept.

Anyway, having their Neutron, Deepmind, still interested in Wing.
Fair point and consistent since you also won't buy Stam or Warm etc. I haven't bought the Odyssey yet but I probably will. It sounds great from the demonstrations I've heard and maybe I'm lacking in morals etc. But that's kinda all I care about. If Behringer are doing the boys of ARP a wrong, or committing a mischief over Korg with its K2 synth, slighting Moog with the model D then that's their fight and there are courts to deal with that. But as I say, maybe I am just morally repugnant!
Old 19th November 2019
  #77
Gear Head
 

The big selling point for me is that I can get Dante for it. I have been equipped with a fancy Focusrite PCIe Rednet card for well over a year and have been waiting for this. My only other Dante enabled device is their little two channel D/A converter.

Having Dante means a hell of a lot to me.
Old 19th November 2019
  #78
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sleepyhollos's Avatar
 

Just watched the Sweetwater demonstration and he mentioned nothing about DAW control. That's what I was waiting for was to hear if there is a DAW control later, if it uses all 24 faders, protocol etc. This would make it a very tasty piece if it has good controller features. I think £3500 might be a bit heavy though. Hopefully it was just an oversight in hate to get the video uploaded and the full details will include controller function. Extensive controller functions!!!!

I'm still excited I think. If nothing else it looks very swish.
Old 19th November 2019
  #79
Deleted 9f6ccab
Guest
I want something like this as the center for my home recording studio. I am surprised Music Tribe has not bought a DAW company.
Old 19th November 2019
  #80
Lives for gear
 

Regarding the argument about cloning: the relevant clause in the Constitution grants Congress the power

“To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."

(The emphasis is mine.)

The purpose of copyright and patent law is to encourage innovation by granting inventors a limited window in which they have the exclusive rights to their inventions and can therefore stand a decent chance (assuming a quality invention, sound business strategy, etc.) of profiting from them - after which those inventions fall into the public domain so that all of society can benefit from them. It was never intended that people maintain exclusive rights in perpetuity, nor that corporations hold such rights decades after the inventors’ deaths. You can thank Disney for much of the perversion of copyright law, but I digress.

The point is there is nothing unethical about taking a circuit in the public domain and making a product from it, regardless of whether or not its original inventor is alive, still in business, etc. He (or whichever company he was working for at the time) had his window to profit exclusively from his invention; now that invention belongs to all of us. Now I have heard claims that Behringer has copied visual elements of some designs that may still be under active protection, and if so then you can make a case for wrongdoing on their part, but as far as the synth circuits themselves are concerned there is absolutely nothing wrong with Behringer doing their take on a classic public domain design.
Old 19th November 2019
  #81
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepyhollos View Post
But as I say, maybe I am just morally repugnant!
I wouldn't judge anybody too quickly, man! These are my likes and dislikes, and many people are right, too: roland, yamaha, korg didn't do enough to recreate their oldies.
Old 19th November 2019
  #82
Deleted 9f6ccab
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepyhollos View Post
I think £3500 might be a bit heavy though. .
It not that expensive relative to what is does, and the market competition. I would kill for a professional level home studio oriented digital mixer under $6k. This is so close. If there is a full Midas version of this in the works, I would be very interested.
Old 19th November 2019
  #83
Gear Head
 

The maximum sample rate is 48 KHz. That is a deal breaker for me.
Old 19th November 2019
  #84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antti H View Post
USB 2 has plenty enough bandwidth for 48 channels.
There's more than bandwidth when talking about interfacing, right? USB architecture and its audio drivers related efficiency impacting latency, for example. USB 2.0 doesn't seem like a modern solution proper for this mixer. Dante option makes things better, though.
Old 19th November 2019
  #85
My Ramsa/Panasonic DA7 is in no way threatened by this.
Old 19th November 2019
  #86
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leveuho View Post
There's more than bandwidth when talking about interfacing, right? USB architecture and its audio drivers related efficiency impacting latency, for example. USB 2.0 doesn't seem like a modern solution proper for this mixer. Dante option makes things better, though.
USB 3 doesn't really provide latency advantage compared to USB 2. As far as USB is concerned, both support sub-millisecond (125 microsecond) microframes and then it's up to the host system (drivers and usb controller) on how to schedule the packets within those. Thunderbolt does provide some advantage since it's really just PCIe bus but that's a whole another can of worms as far as host support and drivers go.
Old 19th November 2019
  #87
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leveuho View Post
...Dante option makes things better, though.
A Dante option is better for things that connect to a DAW. The trouble is that the Dante Virtual Soundcard isn't a low-latency solution, therefore hardware on the DAW side is required.

The only candidate for that is a PCIe Dante adapter. They're never less than $900USD, and of course you'll have to get an external Tbolt-to-PCIe chassis if your machine doesn't have slots.

I recommended that Audinate introduce a direct Thunderbolt-2 or Thunderbolt-3/Dante adapter, like their tiny AVIO series, but they haven't produced anything like that yet.

The cost/pricing problem remains on the mixer or interface side too.
- DiGiCo Dante option for S21, S31 $1200
- Dante option for Mackie DL32 $500
- Dante option for Allen & Heath SQ series mixers $800
- X-Dante adapter for Behringer X32 $600
- Dante for PreSonus StudioLive $600
- Dante for Yamaha TF Series $400
- Dante for Soundcraft Si series $900
- Dante for TASCAM DA-6400 $1200
- Dante for AVID MTRX $2300

It's brutal out there...
Old 19th November 2019
  #88
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by differencetone View Post
The maximum sample rate is 48 KHz. That is a deal breaker for me.
you can hear the differences?
Old 19th November 2019
  #89
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Bilb's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepyhollos View Post
Fair point and consistent since you also won't buy Stam or Warm etc. I haven't bought the Odyssey yet but I probably will. It sounds great from the demonstrations I've heard and maybe I'm lacking in morals etc. But that's kinda all I care about. If Behringer are doing the boys of ARP a wrong, or committing a mischief over Korg with its K2 synth, slighting Moog with the model D then that's their fight and there are courts to deal with that. But as I say, maybe I am just morally repugnant!
I believe the original designer of the MS-20 is a Behringer staff member these days.
Old 19th November 2019
  #90
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaGary View Post
A Dante option is better for things that connect to a DAW.
And that is exactly what I meant.
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