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Analog Hardware Alternative To Plate Reverb
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
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konkon's Avatar
Analog Hardware Alternative To Plate Reverb

So I have a Vermona DSR-3 dual channel spring reverb on the way. I am expecting this to be a pretty good spring reverb solution!

However, though this also has some tonal options, I may want to use more types of reverb in a mix as well to differentiate some of the reverb sounds of different instruments.

I like the sound of plate reverb but obviously I am not gonna get an actual physical plate.

Aside from plugins and digital hardware, is there any analog hardware reverb unit out there that can sound like a plate? I am aware it won't be a plate and I don't need it to sound exactly like one, but just something that is sort of like a plate, or at least, even if not sounding like a plate, anything that sounds different from a spring?

The only thing I can find that MIGHT fit this criteria so far is a Dynacord VRS23 which I believe MIGHT be the only bucket brigade device that can be used for reverb and not just delay. However I might be completely wrong. If I am, I would like to know about any others!

Any idea would be helpful.

I am aware that plugins and digital hardware exist, but these are obvious answers and I am not asking for these. I am asking for ANY sort of analog hardware reverb that is not a spring. Does it exist?

Thanks.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
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vernier's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by konkon View Post
So I have a Vermona DSR-3 dual channel spring reverb on the way. I am expecting this to be a pretty good spring reverb solution!

However, though this also has some tonal options, I may want to use more types of reverb in a mix as well to differentiate some of the reverb sounds of different instruments.

I like the sound of plate reverb but obviously I am not gonna get an actual physical plate.

Aside from plugins and digital hardware, is there any analog hardware reverb unit out there that can sound like a plate? I am aware it won't be a plate and I don't need it to sound exactly like one, but just something that is sort of like a plate, or at least, even if not sounding like a plate, anything that sounds different from a spring?

The only thing I can find that MIGHT fit this criteria so far is a Dynacord VRS23 which I believe MIGHT be the only bucket brigade device that can be used for reverb and not just delay. However I might be completely wrong. If I am, I would like to know about any others!

Any idea would be helpful.

I am aware that plugins and digital hardware exist, but these are obvious answers and I am not asking for these. I am asking for ANY sort of analog hardware reverb that is not a spring. Does it exist?

Thanks.
My findings from using every type of verb: plate, live chamber, spring, plugins, EMT 250 and 251 (the real ones), Lexicon 224 (real one) and many others including cheap consumer modals, that almost anything you get will work. In reality, they're all doing the same thing, which is to change "dryness from being dry". If you think of it this way, you'll relax to the point of being able to slap anything on there, even a single delay, in order to change the "dryness from being dry". That said, for a plate type, you can use any verb, hardware or plugin, that claims a plate program setting.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
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TurboJets's Avatar
I know you said you're not looking for plugins but Breverb2 is actually really impressive IMO. The plate reverb is quite nice.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #4
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There are only 3 type of "Analog" reverbs:
- Plate
- Spring
- Chamber (or natural space obviously)

Anything else is digital but there are a lot of great ones
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5
Gear Nut
 

before I got a plate, recorded a monitor in office building bathrooms, sounded great
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6
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BOWIE's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper0 View Post
before I got a plate, recorded a monitor in office building bathrooms, sounded great
I did that in a house I lived in that had a ratty old metal garage door from the 70's. Placed a monitor in there and the reflections off that big metal wall gave a sort of plate effect that was really unique.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #7
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szmola's Avatar
The other day, I used metal baking tray in front of the speaker with piezzo slapped to it as a ‘plate’ reverb. Quite nice, added unique bold ambience.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper0 View Post
before I got a plate, recorded a monitor in office building bathrooms, sounded great
So you made a DIY chamber
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by konkon View Post
So I have a Vermona DSR-3 dual channel spring reverb on the way. I am expecting this to be a pretty good spring reverb solution!

However, though this also has some tonal options, I may want to use more types of reverb in a mix as well to differentiate some of the reverb sounds of different instruments.

I like the sound of plate reverb but obviously I am not gonna get an actual physical plate.

Aside from plugins and digital hardware, is there any analog hardware reverb unit out there that can sound like a plate? I am aware it won't be a plate and I don't need it to sound exactly like one, but just something that is sort of like a plate, or at least, even if not sounding like a plate, anything that sounds different from a spring?

The only thing I can find that MIGHT fit this criteria so far is a Dynacord VRS23 which I believe MIGHT be the only bucket brigade device that can be used for reverb and not just delay. However I might be completely wrong. If I am, I would like to know about any others!

Any idea would be helpful.

I am aware that plugins and digital hardware exist, but these are obvious answers and I am not asking for these. I am asking for ANY sort of analog hardware reverb that is not a spring. Does it exist?

Thanks.
I can’t think of anything physical that is not a plate that will sound more like a plate than a good digital plate.

FWIW we have a hardware demeter spring been and a number of lexicons including the 480L...I use Uad versions of both!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #10
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konkon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by vernier View Post
My findings from using every type of verb: plate, live chamber, spring, plugins, EMT 250 and 251 (the real ones), Lexicon 224 (real one) and many others including cheap consumer modals, that almost anything you get will work. In reality, they're all doing the same thing, which is to change "dryness from being dry". If you think of it this way, you'll relax to the point of being able to slap anything on there, even a single delay, in order to change the "dryness from being dry". That said, for a plate type, you can use any verb, hardware or plugin, that claims a plate program setting.
Somewhat comforting to know. Haha. Yes I am aware that I can use plugins or digital hardware with plate settings, I was just curious to know if there's any analog Reverb hardware that might sound a bit like a plate, without being a plate.

In fact, to simplify the question further, I actually wondered is there any analog reverb hardware full stop aside from spring units. I did discover the Dynacord I mentioned, which apparently uses bucket bridgade chips. This appears to be the only non spring, non digital hardware I have seen though, aside from an actual plate obviously.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboJets View Post
I know you said you're not looking for plugins but Breverb2 is actually really impressive IMO. The plate reverb is quite nice.
Thanks. Will check it out. I am not opposed to plugins per se, but the point is I already know there are tons of them. The same goes for digital hardware. I was just curious to know if there's a hardware alternative that is analog, aside from the Dynacord I mentioned. Or anyone even experiencing that unit, I would be interested to know what it was like.


Quote:
Originally Posted by numero6 View Post
There are only 3 type of "Analog" reverbs:
- Plate
- Spring
- Chamber (or natural space obviously)

Anything else is digital but there are a lot of great ones
Well this is what I always knew to be true, but then I discovered the Dynacord which apparently does to reverb with bucket brigade chips. So I wondered if there were any other such units out there?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper0 View Post
before I got a plate, recorded a monitor in office building bathrooms, sounded great
I know it sounds funny but I might try something like this too. I was thinking of recording the reverberations of the industrial unit outside my studio unit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by szmola View Post
The other day, I used metal baking tray in front of the speaker with piezzo slapped to it as a ‘plate’ reverb. Quite nice, added unique bold ambience.
For real? Would love to have seen that, ha.


Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I can’t think of anything physical that is not a plate that will sound more like a plate than a good digital plate.

FWIW we have a hardware demeter spring been and a number of lexicons including the 480L...I use Uad versions of both!
Can you think of anything else, other than the Dynacord that is an analog reverb and isn't a plate, spring, etc. Anything like the Dynacord I mentioned?

What's that Demeter like? I was wondering how it compares to a Vermona. I ended up getting the dual channel Vermona DSR-3.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #11
Demeter - sounds cool but I use the UAD spring most of the time instead. I also like the built in AIR Pro Tools spring verb.

You can put spekaers in any space and record the results, water tanks, stairwells, halls, whatever - but it’s all basically the same thing.

I think maybe even a hose? Or is that the delay thing...anyway, if you want a plate sound, without owning a plate, digital is the way to go.

If you want a cool space, mic up said cool space!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12
Lives for gear
I would really play around with chambers if you can swing it. Could be a metal garbage can with a cheap guitar amp in it and a dynamic mic on the other end. I've been doing that a lot in the adjacent stairwell in our building; sounds so unique.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
fredv's Avatar
 

Don't be afraid to gang reverbs at lower levels to get unique sounds. One session we did had a Fisher K-10 spring feeding a small guitar amp in a tiled restroom. The K-10 made most of the top end, while the room filled in the low. This is the equivalent of painting with oils and water colors.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #14
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
you can try the microphone at the end of a long hose/tube but I guess that's somewhere between delay and reverb. I've never tried it, would be fairly cheap to implement. Ryan Earnhardt has some videos on this.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #15
Gear Addict
 

I thought I remember a hardware micro plate and a rack unit. I think it was 90's.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

Akg spring or Master Room 305 are smooth. Maybe more plate-like than other Springs. I happen to selling my 305 because i recently got a emt 140.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #17
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konkon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Demeter - sounds cool but I use the UAD spring most of the time instead. I also like the built in AIR Pro Tools spring verb.

You can put spekaers in any space and record the results, water tanks, stairwells, halls, whatever - but it’s all basically the same thing.

I think maybe even a hose? Or is that the delay thing...anyway, if you want a plate sound, without owning a plate, digital is the way to go.

If you want a cool space, mic up said cool space!
Oh wow, so you actually do prefer the plugins over that unit? Interesting? Is that because of sound, level of control, features or something else? Oh yeah, I heard about the hose thing. Hahah. I might fool around and bit and see what I can come up with in different spaces.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
I would really play around with chambers if you can swing it. Could be a metal garbage can with a cheap guitar amp in it and a dynamic mic on the other end. I've been doing that a lot in the adjacent stairwell in our building; sounds so unique.
I will do some mad scientist experiments once I get my studio up and running. Just having problems with the power right now before I can get going! This thread seems to have come up with some curious and creative ideas so far. Hahah.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fredv View Post
Don't be afraid to gang reverbs at lower levels to get unique sounds. One session we did had a Fisher K-10 spring feeding a small guitar amp in a tiled restroom. The K-10 made most of the top end, while the room filled in the low. This is the equivalent of painting with oils and water colors.
Oh yes. Interesting. This is something I had been thinking about too. Yeah I think some awesome combinations could be made.


Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
you can try the microphone at the end of a long hose/tube but I guess that's somewhere between delay and reverb. I've never tried it, would be fairly cheap to implement. Ryan Earnhardt has some videos on this.
I vaguely think I remember seeing a video of it actually. I'll check it out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RBHan View Post
I thought I remember a hardware micro plate and a rack unit. I think it was 90's.
Ah! This kinda sounds like the kinda thing I was hoping to hear about pretty much. Any idea what it might have been so I could track it down? In fact that sounds incredibly intriguing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mack View Post
Akg spring or Master Room 305 are smooth. Maybe more plate-like than other Springs. I happen to selling my 305 because i recently got a emt 140.
Thanks. Interesting. Will take a look into those too and see what they're like.

An actual EMT 140? You're hardcore. I wish I could fit that but it's probably bigger than my studio haha.

The Master Room looks pretty damn good. Kinda more interesting to me than the AKG. On the other hand, since they're not common I have no clue what kinda price range we're talking about here and I am on low budget. I am not necessarily looking to buy anything, just mainly wondering, since I have the Vermona at least, however now that you mentioned the Master Room it does look pretty damn nice.

I found an old Reverb listing of one but it's out of date and also looks like it was above what I could afford.

So far, that Master Room and the Dynacord seem like the most interesting two things I have seen aside from the Vermona.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #18
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konkon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mack View Post
Akg spring or Master Room 305 are smooth. Maybe more plate-like than other Springs. I happen to selling my 305 because i recently got a emt 140.
By the way, I am just making sure, you're talking about one of these, right?

https://reverb.com/au/item/119897-mi...5-1970-s-black
Old 4 weeks ago
  #19
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decocco's Avatar
 

The EMT 240 gold foil is an actual plate reverb that is much smaller than a 140.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #20
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by konkon View Post
By the way, I am just making sure, you're talking about one of these, right?

https://reverb.com/au/item/119897-mi...5-1970-s-black
Yes thats the one.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #21
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konkon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by decocco View Post
The EMT 240 gold foil is an actual plate reverb that is much smaller than a 140.
You mean one of these?

https://reverb.com/item/3943607-vint...king-condition

Wow. They look hard to find, but great. Unfortunately there's no hope of affording that any time soon, haha!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #22
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decocco's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by konkon View Post
You mean one of these?
That’s the one. Has a much darker, denser sound than a 140.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #23
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konkon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Coates View Post
If you want a cheap but real plate verb, make your own. There are plans all over the web. One of these days, I plan on doing that myself.
Understood. I didn't necessarily want an actual plate, I just wondered if there was anything that sounds either a little bit like one, or not like one, but also not like a spring, but is analog hardware.

It seems so far only the bucket brigade based Dynacord is anything remotely like that. Not the plate sounding part, just the being analog hardware and not being spring parts.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #24
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konkon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by decocco View Post
That’s the one. Has a much darker, denser sound than a 140.
Seems great, apart from the unaffordable cost, haha.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #25
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avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by konkon View Post
It seems so far only the bucket brigade based Dynacord is anything remotely like that. Not the plate sounding part, just the being analog hardware and not being spring parts.
Bucket brigades ARE digital.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #26
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konkon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Bucket brigades ARE digital.
Oh. How come the Dynacord is supposed to be analog but at the same time it uses bucket brigade?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #27
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by konkon View Post
... I actually wondered is there any analog reverb hardware full stop aside from spring units.
You can use speakers, contact transducers or mics with anything that'll transmit sound. Including your fish tank. (plastic bags highly recommended)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #28
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konkon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by avare View Post
Bucket brigades ARE digital.
For example, is this article just plain wrong then?

http://www.polynominal.com/site/stud...ord-vrs23.html

Quote from the article: "A simulated reverb as the circuit using delay lines from analog BBD chips."
Old 4 weeks ago
  #29
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konkon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
You can use speakers, contact transducers or mics with anything that'll transmit sound. Including your fish tank. (plastic bags highly recommended)
Can't imagine what the plastic bags will sound like! Interesting.

I kinda get the point about that. I was just wondering about hardware units that's all.

I will certainly experiment though.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #30
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avare's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by konkon View Post
Oh. How come the Dynacord is supposed to be analog but at the same time it uses bucket brigade?
sounds like marketing. It is like "midfield" monitors. There is no such thing thing acoustically. But that does not stop monitor makers from advertising that they do.
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