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19'' rackmount Reverb and Delay
Old 10th October 2019
  #1
19'' rackmount Reverb and Delay

I'm on the market for 2 new units to attach to my console FX Returns.

I dont want to have a Roland tape delay nor a pedal fx sitting by my console but im into a 19'' that I can rack on my side, at hands reach.

I have about 1K$ a piece and I already have a PCM70 that I love very much but for my second verb, I'd like something more lushed and a bit less edgy then the modern offering.

Especially on the delay....I've tried the TC M2000 and the Lexicon MX400 and while both are very usable in Live situation, they have that harschness that i'd like to avoid. ( I know that i should EQ but thats not what im asking here )

Now I know there's a lot of boutique type of product out there and I'm not always aware of all the new products that come out so I was wondering if anyone had something to suggest.

Please keep in mind, I dont want any pedal nor sitting box by the side of my console.

Preferably, I'm looking for a 1U Delay and a 1U reverb unit .

I have 1000$ for each unit.

Thanks for your time.
Old 10th October 2019
  #2
Lives for gear
 

When someone uses the word "Lush" for reverb I think of the Sony R7 and V77. The V77 will have delays with it also. Both can be found for under $400. As for delays, many here would say the Yamaha D5000 is the one of the best (One of the biggest known Mastering Engineers championed them) and their used price has come down quite a lot the last few years. Their unit prior to that is the D1500 which is warmer and can be found for under $200. One of my delays that is a special treat is the VERY old Delta Lab DL-2 (no preset ability, you must dial it in for whatever you want) but they are hard to find and getting one / keeping one 100% should be kept in mind.

With a $2k budget, frankly there are quite a few options and will boil down to what sounds you like out of a reverb and delay. Buy used at market price or below and try some out. If it's not your cup of tea then resell, likely only being out the shipping costs which you can chalk up to the cost of being able to kick the tires fully in your own space. If you have more rack space then don't limit yourself to just 2 units. Each unit will bring it's own unique thing (have 13 hardware reverb/delay units in the racks here).

Report back what you ended up with and why as a lot of these type threads will give many decent varied suggestions but have no backend feedback to share with other users in the future going down the same road as you.
Old 10th October 2019
  #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
When someone uses the word "Lush" for reverb I think of the Sony R7 and V77. The V77 will have delays with it also. Both can be found for under $400. As for delays, many here would say the Yamaha D5000 is the one of the best (One of the biggest known Mastering Engineers championed them) and their used price has come down quite a lot the last few years. Their unit prior to that is the D1500 which is warmer and can be found for under $200.
Those are great suggestion.

I've just listened to a few demo's out of Youtube and I must say that some of those V77 presets are quite impressive. The D1500 also seems to have that touch im after but I found the D5000 a bit too hard for what im after.
Sadly, I was not able to hear the Sony DPS-R7 anywhere so if you have any suggestion as to where I could clearly hear it, it would be highly appreciated.

I think out of the lot, my favorite in your suggestion was the D1500.

As for your proposition to buy many units, first I only have 4 mono FX return on my Series 800 console and My patchbay is almost full with synths and pre's. Its for home use by the way. I'm after a specific sound because thats what im after for me own project, I'm really not asking for an all arounder for my studio customers.

But thanks a lot for the Yamaha D1500. That has gone under the radar for some reason but it will get a new home here soon.
Old 10th October 2019
  #4
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
I'm a big fan of the Lexicon PCM41 delay. Its old and somewhat dark, especially if you use the 2X setting, as it cuts the sample rate to achieve longer delays. There's a modulation section after the delay that can also be quite fun.

I love it for guitar delay, but have had great success on vocals, piano and sometimes drums.
Old 10th October 2019
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
I'm a big fan of the Lexicon PCM41 delay. Its old and somewhat dark, especially if you use the 2X setting, as it cuts the sample rate to achieve longer delays. There's a modulation section after the delay that can also be quite fun.

I love it for guitar delay, but have had great success on vocals, piano and sometimes drums.
Very good indeed. I'll keep this one in mind for sure.
Old 11th October 2019
  #6
If you can find one, a Korg DL8000R. It's a 19' stereo unit and has tons of programming possibitilies. Endless in fact. Came out in the 90s. I have one sitting in my rack and use it on guitars mainly in mixdown.

Last edited by satissounds; 11th October 2019 at 11:52 AM..
Old 11th October 2019
  #7
Gear Nut
 
zukan's Avatar
 

I'd have a look at some of the old hardware that still rank up there with the best. An old Eventide H3k will give you a coloured yet lush verb, the Korg AM8000R was very useful albeit mad but it was warp buying just for its 'warp' feature, a TC D2 will give you detailed control over a clean delay and if you fancy something a little crazy and yet very useful the Effectron would be perfect, the TC Fireworx is worth considering if you want 'out there' effects. Then there are Kurzweil's Rumour and Mangler. The rest has been advised above by other posters but these are the ones I tend to go for when it comes to having different colours and responses.
Old 11th October 2019
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
BasHermus's Avatar
 

The Bereich03 delay might be a nice option. It is an analog 500 series unit though.

Getting them to Canada and getting them racked my stretch your budget, maybe.
Old 11th October 2019
  #9
Lives for gear
 

With that budget and knowing you have a PCM-70 I would probably split it unevenly.

Delay: I would go for a cheap vintage character delay: Roland Re-150, vintage Roland digital, vintage Korg Digital, Ibanez Ad-202, or maybe a Moog Analog delay. < $500

Reverb: I would consider something like an Eventide Eclipse or H3000 for verb and wild effects, or go for a vintage high end delay like a Lex 200 or 300, etc
Old 4 weeks ago
  #10
Thanks for all the suggestion.

I'm not into the modern Lexicon and TC offering under 1K$....they dont have the sound im into....a bit too present and upfront to my taste.

On the other hand I really loved what I heard from the demo on the KORG DL8000R ( I was not able to find anything for the AM8000R ) .

I was not able to find any demos forthe Kurzweil rumour and the mangler but found something very interesting in the 2U format with 4channel in and out.
The KSP8 with RSP8 controller Deep hall preset reallly seems to bring that depth and wash away effect im into. Plus that would be 4 channel of effects. in a 2U format so thats very good.

Now the thing is that I dont have infinite space as Im in a 10' x 16' room and its getting crowded in here with all the samplers KB. I'm actually trying to get rid of those I dont or barely use but its only a short term clean up as I'll be adding a Crumar performer and a Korg DW8000 in the short to medium term.

Like I said, I dont want no box hanging on a desk like the Roland Tape echo even though I always loved its sound and that would have been the one I'd have if it was not a space issue. But both side of my console are taken by my monitors , a Turntable and my MPC3000. I might had 2 little 4U on each side of the console and put my monitors on top but for now , thats not where Im at.

But so far, with all the great suggestion that you guys offered I seem to be in a dilemma .

Weither I go with a Kurzweil RSP-8 with KSP-8 and connect 3 of the send to the return of my Console and maybe in the futur connect my Crumar in one of its input
OR
I go with a Yamaha D1500 and a Korg DL8000R ( or AM8000R ...whats the difference other then the delay memory anyways ?)
I cant belive I didnt think about the Korg offering myself. I used a DSS-1 extensively and the deep and rich sound of it was so distinctive....I should have thought about it.

My observation or impression ( out of the bad youtube demo ) was that the Kurzweil would bring a more modern rendering to my FX chain ( which is not bad per se ) but would also give me access to 4 channel of seperate FX that I could actually chain in the unit.

On the other hand, the Yamaha and Korg really have the sound quality im after but lack the access to chaining effects which can be very handy given my lack of space.

I only have 32U in total of rackmount space and its getting crowded in there.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #11
Lives for gear
 

The Kurzweil KSP8 is basically 4 Rumour units in one box. The Behringer V-verb Pro sounds like a rip off of the Rumour unit to my ears. All have a more modern sound that works in mixes.

As for your desk's limit of FX returns . . . use a channel's send / return or use separate channels set up for the outboard and blend. You don't have the hard limit you think you do as creative signal routing will allow expansion.

Your Sony question . . . The V77 is a combination of the R7 (reverb), D7 (delay), and M7 (modulated effects) units. The R7 sounds a hair warmer. There is an earlier Sony MU-201 reverb unit that is darker and not as lush that can fit certain roles. That same unit with a different faceplate made by Sony is the Ibanez SDR 1000+ and can be found for very little money.

One other unit to check out that usually pops up eventually in these type threads is the old Klark Teknik DN-780 but has it's own unique sound.

Like I said above, there are going to be many good options and will boil down to what you personally like.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by satissounds View Post
If you can find one, a Korg DL8000R. It's a 19' stereo unit and has tons of programming possibitilies. Endless in fact. Came out in the 90s. I have one sitting in my rack and use it on guitars mainly in mixdown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zukan View Post
I'd have a look at some of the old hardware that still rank up there with the best. An old Eventide H3k will give you a coloured yet lush verb, the Korg AM8000R was very useful albeit mad but it was warp buying just for its 'warp' feature, a TC D2 will give you detailed control over a clean delay and if you fancy something a little crazy and yet very useful the Effectron would be perfect, the TC Fireworx is worth considering if you want 'out there' effects. Then there are Kurzweil's Rumour and Mangler. The rest has been advised above by other posters but these are the ones I tend to go for when it comes to having different colours and responses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
The Kurzweil KSP8 is basically 4 Rumour units in one box. The Behringer V-verb Pro sounds like a rip off of the Rumour unit to my ears. All have a more modern sound that works in mixes.

As for your desk's limit of FX returns . . . use a channel's send / return or use separate channels set up for the outboard and blend. You don't have the hard limit you think you do as creative signal routing will allow expansion.

Your Sony question . . . The V77 is a combination of the R7 (reverb), D7 (delay), and M7 (modulated effects) units. The R7 sounds a hair warmer. There is an earlier Sony MU-201 reverb unit that is darker and not as lush that can fit certain roles. That same unit with a different faceplate made by Sony is the Ibanez SDR 1000+ and can be found for very little money.

One other unit to check out that usually pops up eventually in these type threads is the old Klark Teknik DN-780 but has it's own unique sound.

Like I said above, there are going to be many good options and will boil down to what you personally like.
Thanks for the input. I agree with your point where it might seems like I could reroute my fx But that would mean using more of my Patchbay. My Series 800 is a 18/4/16 console dating from 1981. One of the thing I hate about outboard gear is the connect/disconnect unit which is why everything is weither connected directly in my Console or in the patchbay. Now my console is actually full as we speak and I have 8 channel left on one of the patchbay. Even if we're speaking about FX, please dont forget that i have a full 10slot of Pre's /de-es / compresor. I also have my AD/DA expander and some other compressors routed . What i'm trying to explain is that its really starting to be a mess in here and I'm trying to downsize to what I use and really like/need.
There's too many gear I only use once every other months or once a year in here as this is my personal studio for composition. If space was not an issue, I'd keep them all here and make them colect dust but right now, when I get in , I just feel like someone with OCD.....its really hurting my inspiration and I spent wayt too much time fawkin around with gears I dont actually need ( I guess I needed to go that route to actually know why I didnt need it as much as I thought I did in the first place ).

If I was to pick all unit based on what I like, I do believe I'd still end up selling half I'd buy just because of me over analyzing thing and not composing .

I need to put a stop to this madness. I'm no mixing engineer ...I dont have the skill set. I have a very strong audio texture skill set but thats to my own taste and thats why I'm looking into gear sound specifics based on what I hear ( even if it may be flawed by poor demo quality that i find here and there ).

Thanks a lot for your input, it really does help. Like you said, Its just me making a choice now and stop procrastinating.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #13
Gear Nut
 
zukan's Avatar
 

Martel, the Korg AM8000R

https://sonicstate.com/digital/model...anid=3&manuf=3
Old 4 weeks ago
  #14
Lives for gear
 
the fxs's Avatar
 

Since you love the sound of the RE-201...
You do know there's a rackmount version of the RE-501 tape echo?
It is called RE-555 and features delay, spring reverb and Roland's lovely lush chorus.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by zukan View Post
Thanks mate. Ever seen any sound demo anywhere on the internatz ? I d love to hear the unit reverb and delay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the fxs View Post
Since you love the sound of the RE-201...
You do know there's a rackmount version of the RE-501 tape echo?
It is called RE-555 and features delay, spring reverb and Roland's lovely lush chorus.
The RE-555 is very well known to me but is out of my budget. If not, it'd be here already.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #16
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robert82's Avatar
Lush + rooms + halls - PCM 96, around $1300 to $1800 used.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #17
Lives for gear
 
matucha's Avatar
Dynacord VRS23. It even has a stereo reverb mode. Modulation too. Reverb with modulation = strange diffused chorus. Unlike some other BBDs it's not super band limited, just warm. ~200e on german ebay if you have patience to wait or you're lucky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx7eoToPutc

There is a stereo version of it SRS56 (starts to get very expensive). And there is also a monster chorus/flanger TAM19 or TAM21... but I digress
Old 4 weeks ago
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
Lush + rooms + halls - PCM 96, around $1300 to $1800 used.
the PCM96 is an awesome sound but its not what I'm looking for. Nor the 480 ( if it was even close to my budget )

Quote:
Originally Posted by matucha View Post
Dynacord VRS23. It even has a stereo reverb mode. Modulation too. Reverb with modulation = strange diffused chorus. Unlike some other BBDs it's not super band limited, just warm. ~200e on german ebay if you have patience to wait or you're lucky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx7eoToPutc

There is a stereo version of it SRS56 (starts to get very expensive). And there is also a monster chorus/flanger TAM19 or TAM21... but I digress
I was about to tell you that the Dynacord was not my cup of tea as all I ever heard from it was all up in your face type of dense verb but then , digging in demos, I heard this thing here at 3:35 ( at 8:00 minute also for a very nice room alike verb ) :


Thats what i'm after.

It seems like he had to turn the tone knob all the way down. But the verb sound is spot on.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #19
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matucha's Avatar
Oh, with all that tetra zippy agressive stuff I wouldn't use dynacord either. But the problem for me is in the patches, who likes this kind of sound? Maybe it could be tamed with some very dark moogerfooger for the delays, but the dry sound would still stay this...uh... ugly.

Yes on some soures the way VRS23 clips isn't that nice. But you don't have to drive it too hard. It's not noisy.

The reverb mode is something quite unique I'd say. I'm not aware of anything comparable ("hifi" BBD multitap stereo delay/reverb with modulation).
Old 4 weeks ago
  #20
Gear Maniac
 

Any interest in a spring reverb? There are some nice ones that aren't boing-y. Not a lot of flexibility or sonic options, but I really like the Demeter RV-1, and I'm sure the newer Demeter RV-1D is even better. There may be some other non-cheap-sounding spring options, too.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Lexicon PCM42's are amazing, fantastic sound through the front end limiter - but mono of course.

Much more modern but great under rated delay unit and really cheap is the TC Electronic D-TWO. It has this very unique feature where you can set the number of repeats (eg 4) rather than just decay time.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirker View Post
Any interest in a spring reverb? There are some nice ones that aren't -y. Not a lot of flexibility or sonic options, but I really like the Demeter RV-1, and I'm sure the newer Demeter RV-1D is even better. There may be some other non-cheap-sounding spring options, too.
I thought about it quite a lot but for the type of music i'm doing I dont find the use for such a body buiding spring verb. It does a world of difference compared to the roland and Lexicon alone but the edginess of my music would be lost. Still its a great suggestion especially because I didnt explain exactly what im doing ( im using old samplers to sample my 60's and 70's record collection ) ....how original huh

I was listening to this thing right here :


Funny thing is that he used a 6000 to test those but alray 7 years later then my console, soundcraft was already trying to achieve the API sound and totally lost the deep neve sound. Just listening to that demo and christ im happy with my 800. I must say that the sound stage is quite impressive compared to mine...but where do you put the life of the console !? And why such close micing on that piano. No need to put me in the freaking strings my friend, I can still hear just fine 6 inches further away.

Anyways, all that to say that I'm in no need of a spring . My console is not transient oriented and this will just make it worst. But it was a very nice thought given what I was describing.

I really enjoyed him cranking that pre delay on the Lex

Last edited by Martel80; 4 weeks ago at 02:01 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #23
Lives for gear
 
GreenNeedle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
The Kurzweil KSP8 is basically 4 Rumour units in one box. The Behringer V-verb Pro sounds like a rip off of the Rumour unit to my ears. All have a more modern sound that works in mixes.

As for your desk's limit of FX returns . . . use a channel's send / return or use separate channels set up for the outboard and blend. You don't have the hard limit you think you do as creative signal routing will allow expansion.

Your Sony question . . . The V77 is a combination of the R7 (reverb), D7 (delay), and M7 (modulated effects) units. The R7 sounds a hair warmer. There is an earlier Sony MU-201 reverb unit that is darker and not as lush that can fit certain roles. That same unit with a different faceplate made by Sony is the Ibanez SDR 1000+ and can be found for very little money.

One other unit to check out that usually pops up eventually in these type threads is the old Klark Teknik DN-780 but has it's own unique sound.

Like I said above, there are going to be many good options and will boil down to what you personally like.
I use the KSP8(great unit)and one patch on the R7 on almost every mix. The R7 is generally pretty horrible imo except this one stock patch which is like nothing i have heard elsewhere.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #24
Gear Addict
 

It's been awhile since I've used my old rack mount devices but I still have an old Delta Lab ADM 1024 that I need to get reacquainted with as well as a Lex PCM41. I own the TC D-two as well and it's a fine delay.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #25
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Made my think of one of my favorites, the Roland R880 and there is actually one on Ebay right now with the much needed remote controller for under $1500.

You won't find better reverbs at this price point.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Roland-R-88...sAAOSwHGZdiOe8
Old 4 weeks ago
  #26
Lives for gear
 

I can’t work out what you (OP) want in a reverb - if you don’t like too modern then how about a pcm80/81 or 90?
80/81 has more effects (delay etc). Classic Lex sound, 1u, store presets.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedmanzie View Post
I can’t work out what you (OP) want in a reverb - if you don’t like too modern then how about a pcm80/81 or 90?
80/81 has more effects (delay etc). Classic Lex sound, 1u, store presets.
I have a PCM 70 here. I know exactly what you mean and now you know exactly what I mean. Just add a bit of cream in there and thats the unit I need.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #28
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martel80 View Post
I have a PCM 70 here. I know exactly what you mean and now you know exactly what I mean. Just add a bit of cream in there and thats the unit I need.
I don't know if you're agreeing or disagreeing with my suggestion but I have a PCM81 and I really like it, although the menu diving can be a bit irritating... But it would cover off your delay requirements too perhaps?

I have a Sony V77 but not dived into it too much yet.

It sounds like you need an H3000 D/SE or D/SX, which means you'll need a (slightly) bigger rack
Old 4 weeks ago
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedmanzie View Post
I don't know if you're agreeing or disagreeing with my suggestion but I have a PCM81 and I really like it, although the menu diving can be a bit irritating... But it would cover off your delay requirements too perhaps?

I have a Sony V77 but not dived into it too much yet.

It sounds like you need an H3000 D/SE or D/SX, which means you'll need a (slightly) bigger rack
Yes im agreeing with the PCM offering. I love mine. I just need another flavor and TC, Lex and Eventide doesnt seem to be the route that i'm looking to take so far . But there was great advices from other people here and I just need to pull the trigger on 2-3 of those units now.

Like I said, I was very impressed byt the Kurzweil offering ( the 4 channel one ) . This might be my ''modern'' unit if I decide to pick one.
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