The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
One Coles 4038... what do you pair it with for overheads?
Old 3rd October 2019
  #1
Lives for gear
One Coles 4038... what do you pair it with for overheads?

I will have a single Coles 4038 (and will likely acquire another in the near future).

What would you pair it with for overheads? What OH mic positioning/array would you go with? Screw it, and use it front of kit? Mono room?

I plan on trying it out everywhere obviously, but it's nice to know what's worked for you in the past.
Old 3rd October 2019
  #2
Here for the gear
It's an amazing front of kit mono mic. Looking just above the kick shell at the snare, about 2 or 3 feet in front of the kit.

Enjoy!
Old 3rd October 2019
  #3
Lives for gear
 
thismercifulfate's Avatar
I feel like I get better mileage out of a single coles as a room mic, front of kit or even crotch mic than as a mono overhead. Stereo Coles overheads are a different story! When I’m not using Coles as overheads, I like KM84’s or Schoeps.
Old 3rd October 2019
  #4
Lives for gear
 
andychamp's Avatar
I‘d have it look over the drummer‘s floortom-side shoulder, aimed into the general snare/kick direction and augment it with a close snare and/or kick mic, depending on the sound I‘m going for.
Possibly a single omni between bottom snare and the kick beater.
Old 3rd October 2019
  #5
Lives for gear
 

I've used it as a mono OH and loved it. If it was good enough for Ringo......

Front of kit is also fantastic but I use that position when I'm going for a more minimally mic'd kit.
Old 3rd October 2019
  #6
Lives for gear
Now I’m waffling on getting a vintech V72 dual preamp

I have 2 x M160s, 2 x RM BIV-1, 1 x Royer R-10.

Maybe I have too many ribbons
Old 3rd October 2019
  #7
I really like my Coles in conjunction with my Km84's. They give the sparkle the Coles lack. Next time I record drums I will probably use the coles as mono OH and mono Room. I really like how kick and snare sounds through the coles. First bet I would try mono room like 1m from kick or something. Then crutch then OH.
Old 3rd October 2019
  #8
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen View Post
I really like my Coles in conjunction with my Km84's. They give the sparkle the Coles lack. Next time I record drums I will probably use the coles as mono OH and mono Room. I really like how kick and snare sounds through the coles. First bet I would try mono room like 1m from kick or something. Then crutch then OH.
Yeah I recorded an outdoor party on a deck in the woods; beautiful day, light breeze, but not enough to be noisy... I could do that for a living.

Anyways, yeah I had my Royer R-10 which is not nearly as meaty as a 4038 as a single overhead, but man, mono overhead does not get enough love at all. No phasing issues, just a big powerful center.

I have to try mono overhead and stereo room some time. Seen a lot of slutz talk about that. You get that center focus, but the stereo spread for largeness, but not too wide or "abrupt" like you do when you hard pan overheads.
Old 3rd October 2019
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
Yeah I recorded an outdoor party on a deck in the woods; beautiful day, light breeze, but not enough to be noisy... I could do that for a living.

Anyways, yeah I had my Royer R-10 which is not nearly as meaty as a 4038 as a single overhead, but man, mono overhead does not get enough love at all. No phasing issues, just a big powerful center.

I have to try mono overhead and stereo room some time. Seen a lot of slutz talk about that. You get that center focus, but the stereo spread for largeness, but not too wide or "abrupt" like you do when you hard pan overheads.

I think mono could be fine although to be honest never used since i mainly been doing super clean modern metal.

Although next time i will try it and use spot mics for cymbals if i do need some separation. Stereo room is awesome if the room is great otherwise I could get some ambience smack from the tom mics which is a trick you could try
Old 3rd October 2019
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

I also have just a single 4038 atm, I always use it when tracking drums, in a few different positions and in combination with other mics:

1. Mono OH, over the drummer's right shoulder, looking at the snare. Usually in conjunction with stereo close room mics; omnis on the floor, blumlein pair of ribbons or LDC's, or spaced SDC's.

2. Front of kit a couple of feet out, looking over the bass drum rim at the snare from the floor tom/ ride side. Usually in conjunction with SDC's (Gefell or oktava) or M160's in ORTF over the drummer's head for a slight stereo spread.

3. Kit/crotch mic. Over the center of the bass drum, pointing at the kick, with the cymbals and kick shell in the nulls (the mic diaphragm plane vertical). Spaced LDC's as overheads, equidistant from the snare. The LDC's used to be Gefell UM70's, lately they've been replaced by Vanguard V13's, which I find both brighter, fatter and a lot smoother, albeit not as punchy as the Gefells.

The latter config has become my favorite use of the Coles when tracking drums, as it plays so much to the mic's strength, giving me a fat, punchy, dry yet deep signal to play with. It's usually more of a complimentary mic than the main picture that the former two give, though.

The crotch position takes processing like compression/EQ/distortion like a champ too. I have even been tracking it through a Shure M267 preamp with its built in Level-loc-ish limiter, I really like the squeeze and grainy distortion it gives. Also sounds great through a Pultec, with liberal amounts of 60hz boost/cut and 5K wide boost to bring out the snares and snap. You could of course use devil lock and/or a Pultec plugin after the fact for a similar effect.

Use it alone for instant 60's soul vibe, or in conjunction with overheads/close mics/room as a "fatness"-mic to blend in.
Old 3rd October 2019
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
I have to try mono overhead and stereo room some time. Seen a lot of slutz talk about that. You get that center focus, but the stereo spread for largeness, but not too wide or "abrupt" like you do when you hard pan overheads.
Yep I do this a lot. Mostly because I have a mic I like a lot on mono OH (AEA R84) and I find room mics to be a lot less critical so I use a cheaper pair on that.
Old 3rd October 2019
  #12
Lives for gear
 
cheu78's Avatar
I agree with some previous posters..
Try a pair of shoeps or km84 (shoeps just came out with some short body preamp which are also less expensive and apparently have higher spl capabilities.. a win-win in case of drums..).

The shoeps have a smoother midrange and top end, while still being detailed.. Very natural sounding yet defined.
The km84 have more of a "bite" or more of that Neumann midrange charachter, which I also like..and a top end boost.. although it's quite nice, not too hard (as other manufacturer).
If you can't find the 84, try to get a pair of km140.. For some reasons I like them a little bit better than the 184, although Neumann says they're identical.

Another very inexpensive option is a pair of Line Audio CM3, they don't have the typical high end boost though, that some might like on OH (but that's exactly why I got them, they sound nice on drums).

As far as LDC goes I'd had good results with the old Violet Design Amethyst Vintage (dunno if they do them again with the same quality today).

I'm not a fan of the r10 on OH.. For me they are to dull/muffled.
I know that Steve Remote got fantastic results with The M160 as OH, so you might want to give it a try.. These are for sure less dull than the r10.

You can mix and match and could try which ones goes for room and which ones for OH.. you are lucky to have a lot of choices.

If you want a neve preamp I'd invest my money elsewhere. Buy something that will stay with you for a long time. I have my favs (Aurora gtq2 or Avedis MA5).

I hope this helps,



Cheu
Old 4th October 2019
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Crazy4Jazz's Avatar
 

Love the way people tell others to use KM84, a mic that hasn't been manufactured in 27 years, as if obtaining a pair is no big deal.
Old 4th October 2019
  #14
Pair it with a good drummer!

Or try the Shaking Through/Weathervane thing and do a trianglular setup with some Telefunken M260's.
Old 4th October 2019
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Blaine Misner's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Jazz View Post
Love the way people tell others to use KM84, a mic that hasn't been manufactured in 27 years, as if obtaining a pair is no big deal.
it is a really special mic. excels at that and many other jobs. you can find good pairs if you look for them. its not like anyone is saying "find a pair of km56's"
Old 4th October 2019
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Jazz View Post
Love the way people tell others to use KM84, a mic that hasn't been manufactured in 27 years, as if obtaining a pair is no big deal.
They're very obtainable. Quite pricey these days. But as long as you don't overpay they are a solid investment or in worst case you'd sell them for what you bought them for.

Very happy i bought mine. Haven't looked at other sdc's since
Old 4th October 2019
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen View Post
They're very obtainable. Quite pricey these days. But as long as you don't overpay they are a solid investment or in worst case you'd sell them for what you bought them for.

Very happy i bought mine. Haven't looked at other sdc's since
Ditto. Around 2003 when Ridge Farm in Surrey shut I bought their pair, since I'd been using them a lot for strings. I think I paid £600 for the pair? Maybe £700...at any rate, not bad!
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump