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Burl ADC for tracking
Old 27th September 2019
  #1
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Burl ADC for tracking

Is the Burl B2 ADC worth purchasing for a studio that specializes in overdubs, only ever using 1-2 mics on a source at a time.

For vocals, for example I am currently using a Neumann U67 Reissue, into a BAE 1073MPF, into a UA 1176 into a UA LA2A into an Apollo Twin MKII Interface.

Thinking of getting the Burl ADC to go into the Apollo via optical, bypassing the Apollo ADC, and preamps that are on their line inputs.

Also tracking electric and acoustic guitars, electric bass, synth bass, piano, percussion and other auxiliary overdubs. Guitar I'll add a 57, bass and synth will go direct, etc.
Old 28th September 2019
  #2
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I have one in front of an Avid HD Omni and do mostly overdub tracking as you describe. I think it's worth it if every part of your signal chain, including monitoring is already excellent. It would be the last upgrade I would make otherwise.
Old 29th September 2019
  #3
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Everything else is HQ, including monitors. Really wanting to get the best sound while tracking, so its between the Burl ADC or upgrading to an Apollo X6. I hear the Apollo X converters are a step up from the Burl, though the Burl's transformers seem to be really sweet for tracking.
Old 29th September 2019
  #4
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bzone's Avatar
 

Burl

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikoo69 View Post
Everything else is HQ, including monitors. Really wanting to get the best sound while tracking, so its between the Burl ADC or upgrading to an Apollo X6. I hear the Apollo X converters are a step up from the Burl, though the Burl's transformers seem to be really sweet for tracking.
I think the most important thing you said is ‘ I hear”. The new Burl AD’s and DA’s in their card format are very very good. Perhaps test them against the other products you use and like. Only you will know what’s best for your ears and mix.

Check out the Burl site for more info.
Old 29th September 2019
  #5
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
If I was running a place like that, I would want a really high end converter. I doubt the UA sounds bad, but part of your 'marketing" should be that you have things the average home studio doesn't.
Old 30th September 2019
  #6
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tkaitkai's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikoo69 View Post
I hear the Apollo X converters are a step up from the Burl
I'd have a hard time believing that.

Get the Burl if you can swing it.
Old 30th September 2019
  #7
I just bought a Burl for that purpose. I have an Apollo 16 mkii. The Apollo’s converters are very good. They definitely don’t hold me back, but just on some quick tests it was very obvious to me that the Burl is going to inch me up closer to what I hear in my head. Remember, it’s a game of inches at that point, but inches add up to feet, yards, miles, etc....unless you’re on the metric system lol.
Old 30th September 2019
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikoo69 View Post
For vocals, for example I am currently using a Neumann U67 Reissue, into a BAE 1073MPF, into a UA 1176 into a UA LA2A into an Apollo Twin MKII Interface.
That Twin is a bottleneck on quality at the end of your otherwise awesome recording chain.

With a great vintage style class A discrete transformer based recording chain like what you have it's a crime to not complete it with a kindred recording system. That is basically what Burl ADCs were invented for - to be like the front end of top end vintage tape machines and consoles - robust class A discrete transformer based inputs. It's the obvious choice for your aesthetic. You've come this far - you owe yourself a Burl.
Old 30th September 2019
  #9
I've got 24 channels of the Avid boxes and a Bomber ADC. As soon as we're done with drums, we switch to the Burl for everything. it's also my mixdown converter. They make fantastic stuff. I'll be switching to a Mothership soon, just like everybody else in Nashville.

And the converters inside aren't the whole story. It's the combo of the transformers and converters (and whatever else Rich put inside there) that make it what it is. I have no doubt there are better spec'd converters out there somewhere, but the Burl is a different thing. It's a big, beautiful sounding mojo box, and I seriously doubt you'll regret getting one. I certainly haven't.
Old 30th September 2019
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyfreeman View Post
I've got 24 channels of the Avid boxes and a Bomber ADC. As soon as we're done with drums, we switch to the Burl for everything. it's also my mixdown converter. They make fantastic stuff. I'll be switching to a Mothership soon, just like everybody else in Nashville.

And the converters inside aren't the whole story. It's the combo of the transformers and converters (and whatever else Rich put inside there) that make it what it is. I have no doubt there are better spec'd converters out there somewhere, but the Burl is a different thing. It's a big, beautiful sounding mojo box, and I seriously doubt you'll regret getting one. I certainly haven't.
Oh, you're gonna love that Mothership...

With the new M cards I sold my B2s and use my Mothership for everything now - tracking, I/O loops, mix capture, mastering, monitoring, all in one box on the same internal clock. Bam.
Old 30th September 2019
  #11
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Yeah I'm going to go for the B2 ADC.

I found a good deal on a Burl ADC and DAC if I purchase together.

Typically, once my stuff hits the box, it stays there, though having the DAC as well might inspire some more experimentation with sending things OTB while mixing, or eventually a 2 bus chain of some sort...

Thoughts on the DAC as well?
Old 30th September 2019
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikoo69 View Post
Yeah I'm going to go for the B2 ADC.

I found a good deal on a Burl ADC and DAC if I purchase together.

Typically, once my stuff hits the box, it stays there, though having the DAC as well might inspire some more experimentation with sending things OTB while mixing, or eventually a 2 bus chain of some sort...

Thoughts on the DAC as well?
B2 DAC is ideal for I/O loops. You'll love it for that. But you owe it to yourself to try it out for monitoring duty. Compared to the Twin it's another world.
Old 30th September 2019
  #13
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I would primarily use it for monitoring. How do I interface both the ADC and DAC with the Apollo Twin MKII? There is one optical Port. Also, can the Twin still be used as a monitor controller for volume knob and headphone outs having the DAC do the conversion? Or Do I need another piece of hardware for monitoring (only 1 pair of monitors, but I like to edit and do some mixing on headphones too in my home studio.
Old 30th September 2019
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikoo69 View Post
I would primarily use it for monitoring. How do I interface both the ADC and DAC with the Apollo Twin MKII? There is one optical Port. Also, can the Twin still be used as a monitor controller for volume knob and headphone outs having the DAC do the conversion? Or Do I need another piece of hardware for monitoring (only 1 pair of monitors, but I like to edit and do some mixing on headphones too in my home studio.
If the twin has no digital output then you can't use the B2 DAC for monitoring. Actually, if the Twin is your only interface then you can't use the B2 DAC at all!

In the long run you may end up ditching the Twin altogether in favor of a more high end interface and a monitor controller. The rest of your setup is beyond the Twin already.
Old 30th September 2019
  #15
Gear Maniac
 

Hi I got mine thru VK about less than a month ago. I got it with the help of Jason. The transaction went very smoothly.
While tracking with the Burl ADC, it does something to the sound that I have not quite pin pointed it down yet, but its sounds very pleasant.
For example I usually play the piano part via midi, from the new Kawai MP7SE, edit the notes, and track it via my console.
With the Burl, the piano sound came out in a very pleasant manner, and I can hear the piano in a dense Pop mix. Before, the piano track had a hard time standing out from the mix. With time, I hope I will know more what the reason for it is.
Mixing thru the Burl, the sibilance from the vocal is attenuated, and the bass sounds better than before. Just better, but enough to not feeling guilty about spending that kind of money just for the ADC.
dan
Old 30th September 2019
  #16
Gear Addict
 

I've considered the B2 ADC for a while, both for tracking and mix printing. My convertor is a Lynx Aurora 16. Is the clock in the B2 a significant upgrade over the Aurora? Is it worth clicking the aurora and my M7 to the B2?
Old 30th September 2019
  #17
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drockfresh's Avatar
I picked Metric Halo 3D over Burl for cost reasons and spent on mojo for the front end. I do wonder how much the Burl 2 channel ADC would add.
Old 30th September 2019
  #18
After owning the Burl for years and switching to the Dangerous AD+ I'm now 100% in the 'get your color before your AD' camp.

The Burl smudged the deep lows into the low mids and sucked the air and fine high end detail out of mixes. And not in an open, tape-like way, just in a blunted, veiled kind of way. Loved the midrange energy but everything else just became a hurdle when already dealing with a colorful mix bus. If your existing chain is already squeaky clean then I can see how it'd be cool, otherwise I'd say look at the AD+ or something from Mytek.
Old 1st October 2019
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripripstabstab View Post
After owning the Burl for years and switching to the Dangerous AD+ I'm now 100% in the 'get your color before your AD' camp.

The Burl smudged the deep lows into the low mids and sucked the air and fine high end detail out of mixes. And not in an open, tape-like way, just in a blunted, veiled kind of way. Loved the midrange energy but everything else just became a hurdle when already dealing with a colorful mix bus. If your existing chain is already squeaky clean then I can see how it'd be cool, otherwise I'd say look at the AD+ or something from Mytek.
Not to discount your experience at all, but just to say that my experience has been the opposite. I use a massively colorful analog mastering chain, including analog tape, and capturing that kind of mojo factor is what the Burl is best at IME. YMMV. Cheers,
Old 1st October 2019
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx View Post
Not to discount your experience at all, but just to say that my experience has been the opposite. I use a massively colorful analog mastering chain, including analog tape, and capturing that kind of mojo factor is what the Burl is best at IME. YMMV. Cheers,
Not surprised to read this, but A/B the Burl against an AD+ and you'll hear exactly what I'm saying -- all of the heft, color and detail of your chain (I'm also using analog tape courtesy of Otari) minus the low end smear and loss of air that the Burl itself introduces. We're of course talking about the last few percentage points of difference here but I wish I had made the switch a lot sooner.
Old 1st October 2019
  #21
Gear Addict
 
bzone's Avatar
 

Burl

Quote:
Originally Posted by ripripstabstab View Post
Not surprised to read this, but A/B the Burl against an AD+ and you'll hear exactly what I'm saying -- all of the heft, color and detail of your chain (I'm also using analog tape courtesy of Otari) minus the low end smear and loss of air that the Burl itself introduces. We're of course talking about the last few percentage points of difference here but I wish I had made the switch a lot sooner.
Very interesting. I have the B-80 the new 11 and 14 opamps AD and DA’s and the 32 channels of the originals. I also use the B32 so I don’t need tape any more. I have a very deep analog 2 buss and input chains. Monitor through the Orca. I also have the dangerous stuff. Check out the new cards for the B-80 you will be pleasantly surprised. The Dangerous AD’s and DA’s don’t seem to get it right every time. However it’s nice to have both; Burl original, 11’s 14’s and the Dangerous.

Still think Burl is the best solution overall. But that’s why they make red, green, and blue cars.
Old 1st October 2019
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzone View Post
Very interesting. I have the B-80 the new 11 and 14 opamps AD and DA’s and the 32 channels of the originals. I also use the B32 so I don’t need tape any more. I have a very deep analog 2 buss and input chains. Monitor through the Orca. I also have the dangerous stuff. Check out the new cards for the B-80 you will be pleasantly surprised. The Dangerous AD’s and DA’s don’t seem to get it right every time. However it’s nice to have both; Burl original, 11’s 14’s and the Dangerous.

Still think Burl is the best solution overall. But that’s why they make red, green, and blue cars.
You talking specifically about the AD+? I don't have any experience with any of their other converters and honestly demo'ed it thinking that it wouldn't beat the B2 but, having GAS, I just had to know.
Old 1st October 2019
  #23
Gear Addict
 
bzone's Avatar
 

Burl

Quote:
Originally Posted by ripripstabstab View Post
You talking specifically about the AD+? I don't have any experience with any of their other converters and honestly demo'ed it thinking that it wouldn't beat the B2 but, having GAS, I just had to know.
The new BAD4M, and AD + . The Dangerous seams a little hyped to me, rather than perfectly clean. Where as the Burl with the 14’s is more natural. That’s just to my ear, and that doesn’t mean with your ears that the AD + is inaccurate. I think it is all subjective to how we each hear and work. What’s really interesting for me is; if I mix through the Burl DA’s I get a better mix than I can with the Convert. But, I love playing back my Burl mixes through the Convert. Go figure?
Old 1st October 2019
  #24
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Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

I think I’ll lean into the new AD and DA cards in the next year and keep it all ‘inhouse’ in my MS.

I’ve had my MS 4 in and 24 out for close to five years and it’s stellar sounding and bulletproof and loving it more now I changed the psu fans to silent ones!
Old 4th October 2019
  #25
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Bought the ADC which I can hookup to my Apollo Twin - as far as the DAC, I need to sell my Twin and upgrade to an Apollo x6 or something else that has an optical out.

If I get the Apollo x6 eventually, can I use the Burl DAC for monitoring, and then whenever I want to do any I/O, switch to the Apollo for monitoring, and the Burl for I/O?

Also open to other solutions outside of UA for interfacing, especially if there's something that has a superior monitoring DAC (something with headphone out, volume, etc). The Burl as a Monitor out I imagine I'd need some other kind of monitor controller to act as a master volume, headphones, etc.
Old 5th October 2019
  #26
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drockfresh's Avatar
Anyone do a direct comparison between the Burl bomber and Metroc Halo 3D?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #27
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Anyone do a direct comparison between the Burl bomber and Metroc Halo 3D?
I’m ordering a BAD4M at the end of the month, I think it’s somewhat similar to the Bomber ADC. I also have a LIO-8 3D, which is what I’m using to capture from a B80 with BDA8. I’ll report my findings if someone else doesn’t chime in about MH 3D/Bomber.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #28
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterLarkin View Post
I’m ordering a BAD4M at the end of the month, I think it’s somewhat similar to the Bomber ADC. I also have a LIO-8 3D, which is what I’m using to capture from a B80 with BDA8. I’ll report my findings if someone else doesn’t chime in about MH 3D/Bomber.
Awesome plan. Questions:

1. How are you connecting the Burl to the LIO? The AES DB25 with the AES edge card?

2. Did you get pricing on the BAD4M?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #29
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
Awesome plan. Questions:

1. How are you connecting the Burl to the LIO? The AES DB25 with the AES edge card?

2. Did you get pricing on the BAD4M?
The B80 is connected to the LIO-8 via MADI x2 Optical Edge Card. SUPER easy to set up. Clocked to the LIO-8.

The standard price for the BAD4M is $2k, but I’m waiting to see if they go on sale for Black Friday at the end of the month. If so, it’ll likely be 10% off!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #30
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drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterLarkin View Post
The B80 is connected to the LIO-8 via MADI x2 Optical Edge Card. SUPER easy to set up. Clocked to the LIO-8.

The standard price for the BAD4M is $2k, but I’m waiting to see if they go on sale for Black Friday at the end of the month. If so, it’ll likely be 10% off!
Two more questions :

1. Can you see the Burl I/O in the analog I/O window of the MH 3D software? Or do you have to monitor in the console? If the MADI came up on the I/O window would be super helpful.

2. Why clock to the LIO and not the Burl?

Thanks!
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