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Is mixing/mastering ITB or OTB determined by your stage of life?
Old 17th September 2019
  #421
Lives for gear
 
tymish's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
"So bye bye American Pie"
Chris
"in the future, everybody will be famous,"
Old 17th September 2019
  #422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaine Misner View Post

... also carpal tunnel from editing is no joke, i haven't played the guitar in about a year due to the pain and frustration...
you need to find a good chiropractor or acupuncturist. I've been living with carpal tunnel for about 35 years, and mine is totally under control. I've been playing guitar for 56 years and while there have been a few times it got bad not anything in the last 8 years or so.
Old 19th September 2019
  #423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclab View Post
you need to find a good chiropractor or acupuncturist. I've been living with carpal tunnel for about 35 years, and mine is totally under control. I've been playing guitar for 56 years and while there have been a few times it got bad not anything in the last 8 years or so.
That’s good advice. Been playing keys since the 70’s and had what was almost career ending carpal tunnel in the early ‘90’s but a good chiropractor completely cured me. Even a good occupational therapist can sometimes give you exercises to straighten you out.

More of my time is spent as a performer than a recorder. Only been recording for about 20 years so a lot of it is still new to me, but as far as ITB vs OTB goes, when I’m in the studio, the less I touch a mouse or look at a screen the happier I am. Waiting a half hour for tubes to warm up is no problem for me. Have preamps that have been here for years that I’m still enjoying getting to know. Using both hands on a compressor or a Pultec is a lot more immediate than trying to zoom into it on a screen.
Agree with a previous poster who said trust your ears, and my ears prefer hybrid, going in through hardware and finalizing things the same way. It’s more of a pleasure working this way. More of an art and less of a science project to me.
Old 24th September 2019
  #424
Quote:
Originally Posted by tymish View Post
Interesting, thanks. Check out the Autley vertical mouse. Puts the wrist in a much more comfortable rotation without being too odd to use. especially when mixing ITB which all those tiny repetitive tweaky motions for plugins really seem to cause me some issues.
There was a point where the inside of my thumb was really irritated from resting on my trackball. I got a track pad and alternated throughout the day for a couple of weeks and that allowed the irritation to go away.

Mixing it up can make a big difference.
Old 24th September 2019
  #425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian M. Boykin View Post
Just trying to put the numbers into perspective. You have a perspective now correct? Most people have no perspective and just accept the new reality. As someone trying to attract business and set an hourly rate vs a percentage of sales, it’s very bleak for both the small studio and the no name band. I don’t think that’s anything new. I represent maybe the 1st generation of musicians that started building DAW based home studios in the late 1990’s and early 2000’s. I’m nearing the end of my “real job” and entertaining a small studio for local bands to get their music down. I’m developing a business model based on the current market. It’s not to promising.

Now, I listen to the local radio station in my car which plays local music. Local bands are my potential clients anyways. I gave up on stations in San Antonio long ago. Austin has some better stations that I pick up on random days but I rarely bother to tune in. I stream for casual listening in the house. Most everyone I know, and I’m 45, is streaming. My children definitely stream and they range from 7 to 22. I don’t think streaming is going away and I don’t want it to, but I do feel it needs to be revamped so bands can actually make real money off half a million streams.

Last, I’m not invested in recording financially so that I have to be successful. I can make business decisions based on preference and not on efficiency or grabbing the biggest part of the market I can. I like it that way. I’ve already lost some potential clients because I don’t run Protools or have racks full of 1176’s and La2a’s. I’ve been listening very closely to the apex pros on this thread, and recall matters. I’d be hard pressed to push out 3 mixes in a day with my set up being OTB. That would be a long day and assuming I nailed the mixes. Push them back to me and I’m screwed. No doubt. Not even gonna argue I wouldn't be. I’m not sure I’d enjoy that kind of pressure anyways. And I f-ing excel under pressure in my real job. It’s where I want to be when I go to work.

Sorry for the ramble. This thread has been all over the place and I just dumped.

I think it would be great if bands could make a living off of just half a million streams, but that number comes from a false equivalency and the reality is that they shouldn't.

Whatever dollar amount you think is appropriate for a band to live off of, if you multiply that amount by the number of times 500,000 streams goes into the total number of streams Spotify or whoever is serving, that will be more than their total revenue. The companies themselves are not getting $1/stream.

No one is going to pay $20/hour for 20 3 minute songs.


Very few artist have made a living off of sales of 500,000 albums, let alone 500,000 listens.

In radio terms, that's one single spin in a minor market, or a major market overnight. It sounds like a lot, but it's a very small number.


The bigger issue is that no one has ever made a living "selling music". There have been professional musicians for 10,000 years and there was no recording industry for nearly all of that.

All you have to do is reframe one small thing to see how it actually works - refer to albums as "march" and the business model becomes clear. The artist's music is their identity and they use that to sell physical objects with either their name on it or someone else's. If it's their name, it's called "march" that could be t-shirts, or albums or any one of the 3,000 products that Kiss has licensed with their name. They can also sell objects with someone else's name on it, like "Ford" if they license the music.

That's the way that it's always been since recording was invented. The entire premise of the record business, which is only a portion of the music business, has always been wrong. A band's album ends up functioning as an advertisement for the band itself. That's whats used to promote the band. There's no other industry where people actually purchase the ads. No one buys a DVD of a Ford Taurus commercial.


When you look at the top artists, their record selling royalties are only a small portion of their income. There's a drummer I've recorded a few times who's best known for playing in a band that's sold 20 million plus albums. I asked him very specifically "If you took away all of the money you made from albums sales, would it make a significant financial difference in your life?" and his answer was "No."


People love to cite Steely Dan - a duo, who hasn't made their living solely from record sales because they've had to tour to survive. So one, they're a duo and two, when they were surviving without touring it was from songwriting income, which is separate from record sales income.

The records sales part has always been insignificant and always will be. It's never been the business that musicians are in.


There are so many ways to make money if you have a large streaming audience, and 500k streams is nothing. Look at the kinds on youtube who have millions of views per video. Look at the guys in Pod Save America who are making boat loads of money from booking a venue and recording their podcast in front of an audience, not to mention all the merch they sell there and online.



Yes, the start up phase is an issue. How do you cover your costs when your spending more than you make just like any start up business? If there was a way for artists to have a full-time structured situation to develop their music and audience for a few years without having to be profitable, that would be ideal, but it's not by charging people for what they're using to advertise themselves even though there's been a brief aberration out of the 10,000 years where that was possible.
Old 24th September 2019
  #426
Lives for gear
 

Even if you treat your music as a business, unless you have cash flow you are [email protected]#$#ked.

Cheers
Old 24th September 2019
  #427
Lives for gear
 
Brian M. Boykin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey View Post
I think it would be great if bands could make a living off of just half a million streams, but that number comes from a false equivalency and the reality is that they shouldn't.

Whatever dollar amount you think is appropriate for a band to live off of, if you multiply that amount by the number of times 500,000 streams goes into the total number of streams Spotify or whoever is serving, that will be more than their total revenue. The companies themselves are not getting $1/stream.

No one is going to pay $20/hour for 20 3 minute songs.


Very few artist have made a living off of sales of 500,000 albums, let alone 500,000 listens.

In radio terms, that's one single spin in a minor market, or a major market overnight. It sounds like a lot, but it's a very small number.


The bigger issue is that no one has ever made a living "selling music". There have been professional musicians for 10,000 years and there was no recording industry for nearly all of that.

All you have to do is reframe one small thing to see how it actually works - refer to albums as "march" and the business model becomes clear. The artist's music is their identity and they use that to sell physical objects with either their name on it or someone else's. If it's their name, it's called "march" that could be t-shirts, or albums or any one of the 3,000 products that Kiss has licensed with their name. They can also sell objects with someone else's name on it, like "Ford" if they license the music.

That's the way that it's always been since recording was invented. The entire premise of the record business, which is only a portion of the music business, has always been wrong. A band's album ends up functioning as an advertisement for the band itself. That's whats used to promote the band. There's no other industry where people actually purchase the ads. No one buys a DVD of a Ford Taurus commercial.


When you look at the top artists, their record selling royalties are only a small portion of their income. There's a drummer I've recorded a few times who's best known for playing in a band that's sold 20 million plus albums. I asked him very specifically "If you took away all of the money you made from albums sales, would it make a significant financial difference in your life?" and his answer was "No."


People love to cite Steely Dan - a duo, who hasn't made their living solely from record sales because they've had to tour to survive. So one, they're a duo and two, when they were surviving without touring it was from songwriting income, which is separate from record sales income.

The records sales part has always been insignificant and always will be. It's never been the business that musicians are in.


There are so many ways to make money if you have a large streaming audience, and 500k streams is nothing. Look at the kinds on youtube who have millions of views per video. Look at the guys in Pod Save America who are making boat loads of money from booking a venue and recording their podcast in front of an audience, not to mention all the merch they sell there and online.



Yes, the start up phase is an issue. How do you cover your costs when your spending more than you make just like any start up business? If there was a way for artists to have a full-time structured situation to develop their music and audience for a few years without having to be profitable, that would be ideal, but it's not by charging people for what they're using to advertise themselves even though there's been a brief aberration out of the 10,000 years where that was possible.
Very good post. Thank you for taking the time to write all that. I know your a studio owner and that of a very prominent successful studio. My recordings have progressed over the years because I “listen” to those who are doing it day in and day out and I apply what they’ve shared. This is no different. Thank you for the perspective.

Do you do anything as a studio owner outside of charge for studio time?
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