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Interface OR Preamps?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #181
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
RNC is terrible in the sense of control over the sound, via knobs, connections and so on. But it is one of the most beautiful sounds I have heard in cheap hardware. The designer was able to achieve a massive frequency response up to maybe double rate or so, well above human hearing. Knobs are fiddly and they are awkward to place in racks.

For toms people have told me to use a figure of 8 in between two tom pairs to use less mics.... makes perfect sense to me.

EDIT: Steve Albini (yes, him), uses an RNC in the same way as his GML compressor, it's just a bit less elegant and more specific. If that gives you some idea... jeez! The limitation can actually be a benefit if you're not ready for a GML level of control range. They both still have "wrong" settings though so you have to be attentive to the machine.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #182
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monkeyxx's Avatar
How about this facking guy:

Old 3 weeks ago
  #183
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monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I understand - and agree with a lot of it.

The only thing I’ll say is that music, unlike having an opinion on (say) science or something else that’s factual (ie you can’t deny a given scientific phenomenon and have any weight to your opinion unless you really understand it and can argue your point!), music is largely taste. It’s fine to argue vehemently that you just like something and don’t like other things, even if you don’t understand them. Understanding - even a basic understanding - simply isn’t necessary - you listen, you get a feeling of enjoyment or not, and you listen to another piece.

The concept “if you only understood music better, you’d enjoy this song more” isn’t really a valid line of reasoning. The onus isn’t on the listener - they can be totally passive if they like. The onus is on the creator who, if they have ideas of complexity and/or that are challenging, to translate that to the listener.

Sting was relatively good at that - even if you don’t like his music, he managed to make some fairly complex ideas work in a pop context - eg odd time signatures for “7 days” and “I hung my head” (which also works as a song in 4/4 as Johnny Cash proved).

Or as I said you simply write music for the already enlightened, which will mostly be other musos which is perfectly valid too!
I was just telling some people I know about this. They were asking me a layman's question as a "pro" (haha.) Anyway I think that music is almost 100% subjective, and almost every opinion is valid.

Reaction/emotion is super complicated and varies with the stars, moon, crabs and wind.

You can lose the joy in this line of business. People just want to feel good.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #184
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by konkon View Post
Right, I was concerned about over-complicating things and getting into an unnecessary mess.

Oh really? I thought the Warm stuff was supposed to be another level than the FMR RNC. It seems to be in a much higher price range, that's for sure. I was considering FMR RNC and / or the Klark comps. Warm seems way too expensive for me anyway and if the FMR stuff is superior then why wouldn't I want to pay less and get more? Hahah.

Regarding Klark though, their 1176 seems to be kinda the same thing as the Warm one but for a fraction of the price. However, from what you're saying it sounds like I would be better off with FMR. Seems like I can get the Klark 1176 and the RNC for around the same kinda price anyway. The Klark LA2A a bit more.

Also, I have read stuff about trying to stay in the analog domain as long as possible before hitting the converters. Is that stuff basically pseudo-science or is there any validity in it?

Also what about using the outboard gear after tracking, in the mix, by sending it out and back in? I see a lot of people doing that, but others saying it is bad because it's not worth the conversion every time. Conflicting stuff!

I know most of this subject is about taste and personal preference, but there must be some factual science behind some of it that gives us some concrete answers, surely?
There is some simple gain staging you need to do if you want to run your hardware hot. You can push levels, but you absolutely have to attenuate when you hit back at that ADC input to get the voltage low enough not to clip the converter (ouch!)

Pads are cheap, easy to find, and easy to build. Or you can just use a processor with an output volume as your last device pre ADC back into the computer.

If you have a good ADC/ DAC loop, the sonic signature is nearly inaudible with as many of 40 or more passes through the loop. Eric Valentine recently tested this in one of his incredible videos. It's been tested on obscure google search websites before that with even cheaper gear. And then there's the classic Monty Hall video that EVERYONE should watch.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #185
Gear Maniac
 
konkon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I understand - and agree with a lot of it.

The only thing I’ll say is that music, unlike having an opinion on (say) science or something else that’s factual (ie you can’t deny a given scientific phenomenon and have any weight to your opinion unless you really understand it and can argue your point!), music is largely taste. It’s fine to argue vehemently that you just like something and don’t like other things, even if you don’t understand them. Understanding - even a basic understanding - simply isn’t necessary - you listen, you get a feeling of enjoyment or not, and you listen to another piece.

The concept “if you only understood music better, you’d enjoy this song more” isn’t really a valid line of reasoning. The onus isn’t on the listener - they can be totally passive if they like. The onus is on the creator who, if they have ideas of complexity and/or that are challenging, to translate that to the listener.

Sting was relatively good at that - even if you don’t like his music, he managed to make some fairly complex ideas work in a pop context - eg odd time signatures for “7 days” and “I hung my head” (which also works as a song in 4/4 as Johnny Cash proved).

Or as I said you simply write music for the already enlightened, which will mostly be other musos which is perfectly valid too!
Well this is all true. People can and will do whatever they want. I am just speaking from the perspective of what's good for music to progress as a subject over what's good for individual people or even masses of people. Then again, since when do humans know what's good for them in any subject? Hahah. Seriously though, not saying that's right or wrong, but that's what matters to me. To the next person, maybe people matter more.

I just know that I would certainly rather find ways to allow people to be exposed to more of a variety of music and concepts and hope this spreads awareness and try to do something with conviction than try to create what fits what I think people will like, which often backfires anyway. Packaging the prior in a way that people can appreciate is a different story and I think this maybe the key.

Not to mention, I may be a bad judge of guessing what people will like. Often what one think people will like, they don't. And what one thinks they won't like (but does regardless) they end up liking. I don't know if anyone can completely predict the reaction of all people as a whole. I certainly can't. So I stick to what I am doing and it usually works out better than when I listen to musicians who are afraid of doing anything people might not like and go along with their ideas. Unless I am specifically hired for a certain type of gig of course, in which case I do what I am told and paid to do.

This maybe a digression, but I do feel that at least some audiences, even if they know nothing about music, can sort of sense when something is genuine over something that is pandering. I know we were not discussing pandering, but I think if musicians are not careful they can slip down that road and end up trapped endlessly being cabaret / bar / hotel / function musicians. I think I would rather not even do music than be condemned to that forever. It's fine to earn money on the way, but not as a whole lifetime goal. At least not for me personally. If there are people who are okay with that, great for them. I am happy they're doing alright...


Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
RNC is terrible in the sense of control over the sound, via knobs, connections and so on. But it is one of the most beautiful sounds I have heard in cheap hardware. The designer was able to achieve a massive frequency response up to maybe double rate or so, well above human hearing. Knobs are fiddly and they are awkward to place in racks.

For toms people have told me to use a figure of 8 in between two tom pairs to use less mics.... makes perfect sense to me.

EDIT: Steve Albini (yes, him), uses an RNC in the same way as his GML compressor, it's just a bit less elegant and more specific. If that gives you some idea... jeez! The limitation can actually be a benefit if you're not ready for a GML level of control range. They both still have "wrong" settings though so you have to be attentive to the machine.
Wow, really that bad? I thought it was considered pretty good (for the price)? Also, hahah, yeah, it does kind of spit in the face of OCD with not being a regular rack size.

The figure 8 idea could work. I guess it still depends how many channels I end up with. If it's 16 then I guess I can just do whatever I want freely. I made an offer on an ISA 828 even though I can't afford it (isn't that what folks on this board are supposed to do though, hahah), so that would be the 16 settled. I probably won't get it for the offer I made. Worth a shot though. That would smash all my requirements way beyond what I need. If I don't get it, I will probably go back to that Audient or maybe the Tascam if there's any info about it yet.

Simplicity could be a point. Sometimes I am not sure whether I would want more or less control being new to all this. I kinda can be a control freak though when it comes to music so I might relax more being able to manipulate every possible parameter ever. Then again that could hinder me. Who knows. I will probably just end up getting whatever is "the best I can" based on money.


Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
How about this facking guy:

Yeah, I wonder how all that is mic'd and what is running through what?!


Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
I was just telling some people I know about this. They were asking me a layman's question as a "pro" (haha.) Anyway I think that music is almost 100% subjective, and almost every opinion is valid.

Reaction/emotion is super complicated and varies with the stars, moon, crabs and wind.

You can lose the joy in this line of business. People just want to feel good.
I think I will leave out the crabs if you don't mind, hahah, but the rest sounds okay. And true it is easy to grow resentful and bitter in the music industry for sure! I just need to be mindful not to be lured in that direction myself. I suspect it is more of the case in some places than others though. I have stories I can tell you about how things are here, but I will refrain for obvious reasons. Hahah.


Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
There is some simple gain staging you need to do if you want to run your hardware hot. You can push levels, but you absolutely have to attenuate when you hit back at that ADC input to get the voltage low enough not to clip the converter (ouch!)

Pads are cheap, easy to find, and easy to build. Or you can just use a processor with an output volume as your last device pre ADC back into the computer.

If you have a good ADC/ DAC loop, the sonic signature is nearly inaudible with as many of 40 or more passes through the loop. Eric Valentine recently tested this in one of his incredible videos. It's been tested on obscure google search websites before that with even cheaper gear. And then there's the classic Monty Hall video that EVERYONE should watch.
Now this is the interesting stuff to me. So theoretically it should not really be any harm doing such passes then. Since I would never do that many! Just 1 or 2! That is assuming I don't just make it sound worse with the outboard gear, but in terms of the converter trips I guess it's not really an issue then?

I will search for the video you mentioned too.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #186
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by konkon View Post
Wow, really that bad? I thought it was considered pretty good (for the price)? Also, hahah, yeah, it does kind of spit in the face of OCD with not being a regular rack size.
I am super anal about potentiometer and switch quality, I sold my Behringer Model D almots immediately for this reason. One of the switches was grinding brand new out of the box. Same think with the EQP-KT, plastic shaft pots. It's not an immediate issue but a few years down the line your gear can become very sad, I have seen it with older Behringer gear.


Quote:
Now this is the interesting stuff to me. So theoretically it should not really be any harm doing such passes then. Since I would never do that many! Just 1 or 2! That is assuming I don't just make it sound worse with the outboard gear, but in terms of the converter trips I guess it's not really an issue then?

I will search for the video you mentioned too.
I got a bit long winded yesterday but I will refrain from details as well, LOL.

In response to your interest, there is sort of a "converter phobia" running rampant in the music community.

I have a belief that this is because digital audio is laregely misunderstood, or simply not understood. It's a fear of the unkown, and possibly, a fear of change as well.

By all means watch the Eric Valentine ITB vs OTB videos, and the Monty Hall video, it might blow your mind and make you feel more at ease with digital gear.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #187
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
Oh by the way I just racked my Tascam Series 8p Dyna.

Switch and potentiomter quality is not promising, it all feels like plastic.

I might have to send it back but I'm definitely going to listen to it and see where to go with it.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #188
Gear Addict
 

I wouldn’t trust Behringer with anything. The absolute worst things are board-mounted jacks. They’re just asking to break.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #189
Quote:
Originally Posted by konkon View Post
Well this is all true. People can and will do whatever they want. I am just speaking from the perspective of what's good for music to progress as a subject over what's good for individual people or even masses of people. Then again, since when do humans know what's good for them in any subject? Hahah. Seriously though, not saying that's right or wrong, but that's what matters to me. To the next person, maybe people matter more.

I just know that I would certainly rather find ways to allow people to be exposed to more of a variety of music and concepts and hope this spreads awareness and try to do something with conviction than try to create what fits what I think people will like, which often backfires anyway. Packaging the prior in a way that people can appreciate is a different story and I think this maybe the key.

Not to mention, I may be a bad judge of guessing what people will like. Often what one think people will like, they don't. And what one thinks they won't like (but does regardless) they end up liking. I don't know if anyone can completely predict the reaction of all people as a whole. I certainly can't. So I stick to what I am doing and it usually works out better than when I listen to musicians who are afraid of doing anything people might not like and go along with their ideas. Unless I am specifically hired for a certain type of gig of course, in which case I do what I am told and paid to do.

This maybe a digression, but I do feel that at least some audiences, even if they know nothing about music, can sort of sense when something is genuine over something that is pandering. I know we were not discussing pandering, but I think if musicians are not careful they can slip down that road and end up trapped endlessly being cabaret / bar / hotel / function musicians. I think I would rather not even do music than be condemned to that forever. It's fine to earn money on the way, but not as a whole lifetime goal. At least not for me personally. If there are people who are okay with that, great for them. I am happy they're doing alright...
It still feels like you think people need educating about musix, that they’ll love something if they just “get it”. That’s not how human taste works.

“What’s good for music to progress”....I mean, who can possibly make the call on that? I’ve only seen one video of course, but slightly complicated drumming isn’t really “progressing music”. Busy drumming, clever guitar playing, complex chord sequences etc have been with us for decades and it’s still only “crossed over” on rare occasions. What more often happens is extreme styles get interpolated into other more mainstream genres.

You might call this “dumbing down”. I’d call it clever songwriting/production. A true drum n bass aficionado might sneers, but something like Shy Fx’s “shake your body” has touched far more people than someone like Aphrodite or even more mainstream stuff like LTJ Bukem or Roni Size (I’m no expert on the cream of underground drum n bass clearly!). And isn’t the point of music to touch people?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #190
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
I think anyone that loves music should try to learn more. It opens the door to the spoiled riches of the history of recorded and current music. Being caught on a genre or "your favorite song" is extremely limited thinking. I know it's not easy but even being a "fan" takes a lot of skill and effort.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #191
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
I think anyone that loves music should try to learn more. It opens the door to the spoiled riches of the history of recorded and current music. Being caught on a genre or "your favorite song" is extremely limited thinking. I know it's not easy but even being a "fan" takes a lot of skill and effort.
I personally wouldn't disagree with that - only the attitude that people don't like your music because they're uneducated, or that education is the only way to "further music".

Leave that to the academic. Make music that moves people - whoever they are. IF (and it's a big if) you want people to like your music, don't try to change them - make music they like.

If your attitude is you make music YOU like and if anyone else likes it, that's cool too!

Just don't be surprised when the general public aren't that interested in educating themselves purely to enjoy your music.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #192
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I personally wouldn't disagree with that - only the attitude that people don't like your music because they're uneducated, or that education is the only way to "further music".

Leave that to the academic. Make music that moves people - whoever they are. IF (and it's a big if) you want people to like your music, don't try to change them - make music they like.

If your attitude is you make music YOU like and if anyone else likes it, that's cool too!

Just don't be surprised when the general public aren't that interested in educating themselves purely to enjoy your music.
Strong points.

I've had a problem with being an arrogant prick in the past but I'm more open to anyone's opinions by now. Especially concerning what they like or don't like about music. Sometimes it's hard to hear that about your own work, though.

Pandering to the public is not my game AT ALL however, I think that's a recipe for disaster. By disaster I mean watered down, homogenous lame music.

No compromise, no excuses. Push yourself, push your audience. But try to make it good.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #193
Gear Maniac
 
konkon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
I am super anal about potentiometer and switch quality, I sold my Behringer Model D almots immediately for this reason. One of the switches was grinding brand new out of the box. Same think with the EQP-KT, plastic shaft pots. It's not an immediate issue but a few years down the line your gear can become very sad, I have seen it with older Behringer gear.

I got a bit long winded yesterday but I will refrain from details as well, LOL.

In response to your interest, there is sort of a "converter phobia" running rampant in the music community.

I have a belief that this is because digital audio is laregely misunderstood, or simply not understood. It's a fear of the unkown, and possibly, a fear of change as well.

By all means watch the Eric Valentine ITB vs OTB videos, and the Monty Hall video, it might blow your mind and make you feel more at ease with digital gear.
OK. I guess I should not be too OCD about it and at the end of they day, I will have my on rig so I can just try things. I mean it's not like I can't just record again. Also will check out those videos! Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
Oh by the way I just racked my Tascam Series 8p Dyna.

Switch and potentiomter quality is not promising, it all feels like plastic.

I might have to send it back but I'm definitely going to listen to it and see where to go with it.
Oh yes! I would love to know. It did kinda "look" like that from the pics but I thought I would wait and see. The power supply didn't look very hardcore (guitar pedal style) either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Noctambulant View Post
I wouldn’t trust Behringer with anything. The absolute worst things are board-mounted jacks. They’re just asking to break.
Well I am not intending on using anything of theirs so far. Hah.


Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
It still feels like you think people need educating about musix, that they’ll love something if they just “get it”. That’s not how human taste works.

“What’s good for music to progress”....I mean, who can possibly make the call on that? I’ve only seen one video of course, but slightly complicated drumming isn’t really “progressing music”. Busy drumming, clever guitar playing, complex chord sequences etc have been with us for decades and it’s still only “crossed over” on rare occasions. What more often happens is extreme styles get interpolated into other more mainstream genres.

You might call this “dumbing down”. I’d call it clever songwriting/production. A true drum n bass aficionado might sneers, but something like Shy Fx’s “shake your body” has touched far more people than someone like Aphrodite or even more mainstream stuff like LTJ Bukem or Roni Size (I’m no expert on the cream of underground drum n bass clearly!). And isn’t the point of music to touch people?
Well I don't suppose anyone can make an absolute call, but we can just all do what we think is right. What else can we do?


Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
I think anyone that loves music should try to learn more. It opens the door to the spoiled riches of the history of recorded and current music. Being caught on a genre or "your favorite song" is extremely limited thinking. I know it's not easy but even being a "fan" takes a lot of skill and effort.
Yeah, basically that's all I was trying to say. Hahah.


Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
Strong points.

I've had a problem with being an arrogant prick in the past but I'm more open to anyone's opinions by now. Especially concerning what they like or don't like about music. Sometimes it's hard to hear that about your own work, though.

Pandering to the public is not my game AT ALL however, I think that's a recipe for disaster. By disaster I mean watered down, homogenous lame music.

No compromise, no excuses. Push yourself, push your audience. But try to make it good.
Yes, this is what I meant, more or less.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #194
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
I just looked up Audient ASP prices. It looks like Audient ASP, Presonus DP88, Clarett OctoPre, Midas XL48, and Tascam Series 8p Dyna are all roughly at the same value by now, about $400-900 depending on condition.

I can tell you for a fact Audient is going to have nice chunky pots and switches. I guess the Audient and Midas are the only ones I haven't tried.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #195
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
I just looked up Audient ASP prices. It looks like Audient ASP, Presonus DP88, Clarett OctoPre, Midas XL48, and Tascam Series 8p Dyna are all roughly at the same value by now, about $400-900 depending on condition.

I can tell you for a fact Audient is going to have nice chunky pots and switches. I guess the Audient and Midas are the only ones I haven't tried.
General heads up -- with any of those kinds of things, be very diligent about the nuts under the pots and switches loosening even a tiny bit. If they do, when you handle them they'll rock back and forth on the PC board they're mounted to and the solder joints will crack.

The highest likelihood of this happening, actually, is with many combo guitar amps because the knobs stick up, not out. And on a gig you're not going to be as delicate as you might be in the studio.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #196
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monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
General heads up -- with any of those kinds of things, be very diligent about the nuts under the pots and switches loosening even a tiny bit. If they do, when you handle them they'll rock back and forth on the PC board they're mounted to and the solder joints will crack.

The highest likelihood of this happening, actually, is with many combo guitar amps because the knobs stick up, not out. And on a gig you're not going to be as delicate as you might be in the studio.
very true!

I learned this lesson "the hard way" when I was modifying and fixing an old Behringer Composer.

I also had an old Symetrix 501 that took a 5 foot dive face down in a rack and mostly survived. Incredible difference in build quality. This is why I like old american gear like the Symetrix, dbx, Rane, and so on. Well OK I'm not sure if they're all american but the ones I had were tight and solid. My dbx 166A is a USA build, I paid $50 or less for the thing.

This is why I am nervous about the behringer gear with plasic shaft pots. The slightest mishap could shear the knob and pot shaft right off the face like a twig.

If I keep this tascam I'm not sure if its going out of the "home studio" or not.

The compressor knobs feel super weak. The gain knobs feel slightly more solid.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #197
Gear Addict
 

Sell them both before they break. They’re more junk made in China by an oem (or Behringer) where the brand behind it did not even pay for case mounting the jacks and controls. I’ve seen board mounted xlrs hahaha. They won’t pay the oem to use case mounted reliable controls because that’s just another cost that will dig into their profits. Cost reduction is why they moved production to China in the first place. The brands want your stuff to break just outside the warranty period so that you just buy a new one. Paying for parts that might outlast the warranty period will affect the product cycle is illogical for them.

I wouldn’t buy this “value engineered” stuff especially for things like interfaces that will see a ton of use and handling.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #198
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monkeyxx's Avatar
Yeah I'm sure it's an "Evil Plan" to screw everybody over. I'm sure they're not trying their best to reduce cost and increase quality.

Am I dreaming?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #199
Gear Maniac
 
konkon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
I just looked up Audient ASP prices. It looks like Audient ASP, Presonus DP88, Clarett OctoPre, Midas XL48, and Tascam Series 8p Dyna are all roughly at the same value by now, about $400-900 depending on condition.

I can tell you for a fact Audient is going to have nice chunky pots and switches. I guess the Audient and Midas are the only ones I haven't tried.
Right. They are all pretty low priced it seems. The Audient seems to be the best value for money, just from what I can gather (non-expert evaluation).
Old 3 weeks ago
  #200
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konkon's Avatar
Actually, although I have wasted a lot of time pondering this, I am going to make a final decision (on everything including the preamps) this weekend because I can't delay anymore.

I am now just deciding whether to go for the Audient ASP880 or an Focusrite ISA 828 (that I can't really afford) with the card. The ISA just seems so good, but then when I rationally compare them I can't see an actual reason why it's worth triple the price. They both actually seem to do the same thing functionally and I can't imagine the preamps sound 3x as good.

Is there any reason I am not thinking of why the ISA should be worth 3x more (and take up double the space) to do the same thing?

I mean it seems amazing, but if I put down the specs, features, etc., what they do on paper there's not much of a difference, so I am not sure how I can justify getting slammed on funds for it? Not to mention the amount saved could go towards other things.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #201
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
Yeah I'm sure it's an "Evil Plan" to screw everybody over. I'm sure they're not trying their best to reduce cost and increase quality.

Am I dreaming?
It's not evil. They want to keep sound quality largely the same electronically (for those brands that had it in the first place. Behringer has actually gone way up) but cut costs for the actual build of the gear. Cut back on customer service to reduce the amount of actual repairs processed and done, shorten warranties, and use lower rated mechanical and electrical parts that don't have to last for as long are all part of the plan for modern electronics manufacturing to maximize profits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by konkon View Post
Actually, although I have wasted a lot of time pondering this, I am going to make a final decision (on everything including the preamps) this weekend because I can't delay anymore.

I am now just deciding whether to go for the Audient ASP880 or an Focusrite ISA 828 (that I can't really afford) with the card. The ISA just seems so good, but then when I rationally compare them I can't see an actual reason why it's worth triple the price. They both actually seem to do the same thing functionally and I can't imagine the preamps sound 3x as good.

Is there any reason I am not thinking of why the ISA should be worth 3x more (and take up double the space) to do the same thing?

I mean it seems amazing, but if I put down the specs, features, etc., what they do on paper there's not much of a difference, so I am not sure how I can justify getting slammed on funds for it? Not to mention the amount saved could go towards other things.
The ISAs cost more and take up more rack space because of the Lundahl transformers. They sound different. I wouldn't buy them. Even if you turn out to love the ISA sound, I doubt you would want 8 of them. If your choice is between the 8 channel ISA and the cheaper Audient, save money and get the Audient.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #202
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by konkon View Post
Actually, although I have wasted a lot of time pondering this, I am going to make a final decision (on everything including the preamps) this weekend because I can't delay anymore.

I am now just deciding whether to go for the Audient ASP880 or an Focusrite ISA 828 (that I can't really afford) with the card. The ISA just seems so good, but then when I rationally compare them I can't see an actual reason why it's worth triple the price. They both actually seem to do the same thing functionally and I can't imagine the preamps sound 3x as good.

Is there any reason I am not thinking of why the ISA should be worth 3x more (and take up double the space) to do the same thing?

I mean it seems amazing, but if I put down the specs, features, etc., what they do on paper there's not much of a difference, so I am not sure how I can justify getting slammed on funds for it? Not to mention the amount saved could go towards other things.
If the ISA is in good shape, same price, I would grab that before the Audient.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #203
Gear Maniac
 
konkon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noctambulant View Post
It's not evil. They want to keep sound quality largely the same electronically (for those brands that had it in the first place. Behringer has actually gone way up) but cut costs for the actual build of the gear. Cut back on customer service to reduce the amount of actual repairs processed and done, shorten warranties, and use lower rated mechanical and electrical parts that don't have to last for as long are all part of the plan for modern electronics manufacturing to maximize profits.


The ISAs cost more and take up more rack space because of the Lundahl transformers. They sound different. I wouldn't buy them. Even if you turn out to love the ISA sound, I doubt you would want 8 of them. If your choice is between the 8 channel ISA and the cheaper Audient, save money and get the Audient.
Yeah I am kinda conflicted on this but not seeing a great reason why it's 3x price. I knew about the transformers, I just forgot to mention that in the last post. However, I am not sure they will make it 3x as good.

Maybe the money I save can be spent on other things such as mics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
If the ISA is in good shape, same price, I would grab that before the Audient.
Yeah, I am heavily conflicted on this one. The ISA is used but does seem to be in decent shape and has the card installed already. The Audient is new yet a third of the price.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #204
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
ISA is probably too expensive it sounds like, Audient will be fine.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #205
Gear Maniac
 
konkon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
ISA is probably too expensive it sounds like, Audient will be fine.
Thanks. I will probably go with that, yeah. It saves me a ton that can go towards mics, etc.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #206
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by konkon View Post
...
Yeah, I am heavily conflicted on this one. The ISA is used but does seem to be in decent shape and has the card installed already. The Audient is new yet a third of the price.
If this helps any, I sold my ISA Two and used that money toward my first Audient ASP800. There are no regrets, and I bought a second ASP800. I agree about shunting money toward microphones.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #207
Gear Maniac
 
konkon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaGary View Post
If this helps any, I sold my ISA Two and used that money toward my first Audient ASP800. There are no regrets, and I bought a second ASP800. I agree about shunting money toward microphones.
Yeah in another thread I just heard some samples of the ISA vs ASP side by side. I did (at least I think I did) hear a slight difference, but definitely not enough to warrant 3x the price for the ISA. So I am probably going with the Audient. Thanks!
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