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"Kick out" mic to pair with re20 (that ism't $10k)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
i agree up until here: it doesn't take that much to match a pair of kick mics and make them sound good.

when we're talking about phase though, it makes however a huge difference whether this is done with some simple tools or if one takes dsp both to analyse in the time and frequency domain and to align with delay and all sorts of filters!

the difference is as (almost as) big as if you'd try to align (and this is not about tweaking a house geq but prooper system alignment) a multi array pa system by ear versus using the appropriate gear!

[i said 'almost' 'cause in live sound, there is always the dilemma of how/where to align the subs to the mains: one can only ever align for one frequency and one distance - in the studio, that's one consideration less (unless you're in a very large control room).]

anyone claiming otherwise probably hasn't ever experienced the difference...
Two questions: what was the first record that used “DSP to analyze in the time and frequency domain and to align with and delay and all sorts of filters”? And were you absolutely disgusted with every recorded drum sound you had heard in your life up until you finally heard that record?

The sound of drums that most people know and love is not 100% phase perfect. To this day when I hear Led Zeppelin come on the radio I hear those drums and I’m like #%*$ yeah. I guess they blew it by not time delay correcting them to death though.

Just spend a few minutes moving mics to get them in phase, it’s not that hard and you don’t need to call in NASA.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #62
for those who regularly use a single mic overhead - why did you reject using a coincident pair instead?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrentA View Post
Two questions: what was the first record that used “DSP to analyze in the time and frequency domain and to align with and delay and all sorts of filters”? And were you absolutely disgusted with every recorded drum sound you had heard in your life up until you finally heard that record?

The sound of drums that most people know and love is not 100% phase perfect. To this day when I hear Led Zeppelin come on the radio I hear those drums and I’m like #%*$ yeah. I guess they blew it by not time delay correcting them to death though.

Just spend a few minutes moving mics to get them in phase, it’s not that hard and you don’t need to call in NASA.
what makes it so hard for you to accept that there is some really sma(a)rt technology out there which can get used to great advantage? still using an analog phone?

again: one does not need 'nasa gear', but:

a) it's there.
b) it's a very well established technology which gets used in live sound every day, everywhere, for some 25 years now...
c) with some experience, it's actually much faster than moving things around manually!
d) i wish some older bands would have had this technique available back in the days!
e) bonzo indeed sounded huge (on albums)!
f) we're not discussion mix technique (so far)/my comments are aiming at phase relationship/coherence, nothing else...



p.s. i saw/heard bonzo on his last tour, just a couple of weeks/month(s) before he died: no drum solo that night :-(

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 4 weeks ago at 12:58 AM.. Reason: typo
Old 4 weeks ago
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildplum View Post
for those who regularly use a single mic overhead - why did you reject using a coincident pair instead?
You're making that too easy. Ask 'vs the typical spaced pair
Old 3 weeks ago
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andersmv View Post
I've really liked my Vanguard V13 on outside kick. It's got a lot of proximity effect, so it works really well for front of kick. I usually shove it about as close as I can get it and switch on the pad and high pass filter, a lot of times I don't even need to EQ it. What style of music do you record? If you are looking for super low sub frequencies, you could always try something like a SubKick speaker mic as well. Most of the choice are pretty affordable.

If you want a really good, affordable 47 FET clone, the Advanced Audio CM47FET is probably one of the best choices.
Mostly just rock/post-rock, but I was comparing a track to A Perfect Circle's "The Package"and was going for that.

The CM47FET looks exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inasilentway View Post
I use a Lawson 47FET in conjunction with an RE-20 and the combo always makes me happy.
maybe a bit more than I want to spend currently, but put in the archives for the future. Thanks.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdig View Post
Aston spirit or origin. I also like my m audio Sputnik
I've heard these mentioned for the task as well are they "47"-ish?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
Royer R10
Would ribbon mics not be a bit sensitive to damage in that application?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirker View Post
You say "not $10k" but don't give a price you're willing to spend. 47FETs are pricey, but way under $10k. A Blue Mouse sounds different but can serve the same purpose really well, for less money, especially used.(If you're buying used, make sure to NOT get the version without the transformer.)
Right, and I was being a bit hyperbolic (and need to proofread before posting)- mostly just meaning I don't want to pay the typical going price at this point. Sorry to be vague- probably <$1k
Old 3 weeks ago
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post
If you want that sub you are hearing on a lot of records then you need a subkick mic. I use the Solomon mics LoFreq (see picture of my house kit below). They are very affordable at $199USD and look great. If you don't want a subkick then I highly recommend using a ribbon as an FOK mic. They also give that nice thick low end and deal with cymbal bleed very well. You can get the Solomon LoFreq here.



.
I have thought of this (and my drummer suggested it), but haven't tried a kick out yet (as I typically haven't had an extra ldc laying around when tracking).
Old 3 weeks ago
  #71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Betsey View Post
Really? You reckon the Advanced Audio (that's the CM47fet, right?) is up there? I've noted you love the Horch before and as a virtual GS acquaintance I trust your judgement so I do take this recommendation a little more seriously.

Cheers!

R.
Thanks I appreciate your trust. I’ve just bought my second as the AA is so good. I also invest in many high end mics but the AA ones are highly rated with many friends and colleagues. I can’t believe they’re slept on.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #72
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As somebody who has never used a 47fet, or even any of the clones out there, what makes that mic special for outside kick purposes? I've pretty much always taken the single-mic approach to recording kick drum, but this weekend I did some experimenting with a 421mkII inside and a FET LDC outside. I tried the Oktava MK319 and the Aston Spirit, and I'd say I got comparably good results from both of them. What's different about the 47fet?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoopysnorp View Post
As somebody who has never used a 47fet, or even any of the clones out there, what makes that mic special for outside kick purposes? I've pretty much always taken the single-mic approach to recording kick drum, but this weekend I did some experimenting with a 421mkII inside and a FET LDC outside. I tried the Oktava MK319 and the Aston Spirit, and I'd say I got comparably good results from both of them. What's different about the 47fet?
For lack of a better way of saying it, I think 47fet's capture the "bang" component really well. The two mics that seem to do that best are the 47fet, which I can't afford, and the AKG D12, which I can't find.

"Bang" used to be easier to get when everyone had their res heads off. Harder now.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoopysnorp View Post
As somebody who has never used a 47fet, or even any of the clones out there, what makes that mic special for outside kick purposes? I've pretty much always taken the single-mic approach to recording kick drum, but this weekend I did some experimenting with a 421mkII inside and a FET LDC outside. I tried the Oktava MK319 and the Aston Spirit, and I'd say I got comparably good results from both of them. What's different about the 47fet?
The Neumann U47 FET is one of the better sounding microphones for this for a long while, I don't know about the mountain of clones on the market however because I don't know that they're all equal to the original. I also don't know that it's the best for every situation either, but people always seem to default to it because it's been the hip mic for this for a moment.

Personally I prefer my original Telefunken U47 tube, and the Brauner VM1/VMA, the original Horch and a handful of LDC condenser microphones too.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #75
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Philip Marinelis's Avatar
Lately I've been using the Microtech Gefell m930 and liking it a lot.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearfloozy View Post
Would ribbon mics not be a bit sensitive to damage in that application?
I use it 3 ft out angled downward to avoid the air blast.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
The Neumann U47 FET is one of the better sounding microphones for this for a long while, I don't know about the mountain of clones on the market however because I don't know that they're all equal to the original. I also don't know that it's the best for every situation either, but people always seem to default to it because it's been the hip mic for this for a moment.

Personally I prefer my original Telefunken U47 tube, and the Brauner VM1/VMA, the original Horch and a handful of LDC condenser microphones too.
How do you set it to not damage the U47?Does the U47 not "crunch up" pretty quickly?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoopysnorp View Post
As somebody who has never used a 47fet, or even any of the clones out there, what makes that mic special for outside kick purposes? I've pretty much always taken the single-mic approach to recording kick drum, but this weekend I did some experimenting with a 421mkII inside and a FET LDC outside. I tried the Oktava MK319 and the Aston Spirit, and I'd say I got comparably good results from both of them. What's different about the 47fet?
From what I've read the tube 47 would be amazing at this, but has a pretty low threshold before distortion and is pretty fragile/expensive to be using in such an application. The Fet47 is more robust and maintains some of the tube 47's characteristics.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearfloozy View Post
How do you set it to not damage the U47?Does the U47 not "crunch up" pretty quickly?
Have anyone here actually seen a U47 get destroyed because it was used on kick...did you know that the U47 and FET 47 have the same capsules in them? Why would the SPL destroy the U47 and not destroy the FET47? The Telefunken U47 is not as fragile as some people imply although I certainly don't use in every situation. I use it when I record Sly Dunbar playing reggae...take the resonator head off and place it in the center just outside the shell for 'that' classic sound, I can do that and get good results because he's such a master of consistency/control.

With the resonator on, it's never in front of the hole (if there is one) and it's never close enough to the head to capture flutter or secondary vibrations off the head.


Last edited by Samc; 3 weeks ago at 02:02 PM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #80
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cheu78's Avatar
I'd get a used Neumann U47FET from a reliable source.. Really great mic for outside kick.

The Violet Design Globe Vintage is the closest thing to a U47fet I've found for that application. Great mic.

Although for outside kick a lot of fet LDC's and other dynamic mics will work just fine..
D12VR is also a very nice alternative there or even inside.



Cheu
Old 3 weeks ago
  #81
Gear Head
I hear the Heiserman fet47 is good, and the price is just right
www.heisermanaudio.com
Old 3 weeks ago
  #82
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cheu78's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tskguy View Post
I hear the Heiserman fet47 is good, and the price is just right
www.heisermanaudio.com
The guy is a great dude!
I've heard the samples on their website when that came out..

But I wasn't really that impressed in all honesty.. It sounded harder than the u47fet.. although it had more punch.. I had the impression that it was somewhat less dimensional..

But a lot of people loved it..
So i guess it's a matter of taste..

My 0.02$,



Cheu
Old 3 weeks ago
  #83
Gear Head
Most guys seem to think its actually an improvement.. Truth is all of the vintage fet47s from nuemann sound a bit different so when your comparing I always keep that in mind.. Honestly you need to demo one to be sure.
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