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Hardware comps that have "anti-pump" parameters?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
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Hardware comps that have "anti-pump"/"transient" parameters?

Hardware comps that have "anti-pump"/"transient" parameters?

Like variable knee, hysteresis etc.?

Something that has drawn me back to software has been that I really like Flux PureComp and Melda's MCompressor due to them having parameters that allow one to fine tune them, in case the sound "pumps". On the other hand this has been a limitation in hardware comps and "emulation" software comps (e.g. LA-2A, 1176, ...). If the material doesn't fit the timings given by the comp, then the comp is sort of useless, regardless of "how good it is".
Old 4 weeks ago
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You can control how much the signal "pumps" with an LA-2A by how hard you drive it. Attack and release controls on the 1176 do the duty there, albeit with more control than the 2A.
Old 4 weeks ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murky Waters View Post
You can control how much the signal "pumps" with an LA-2A by how hard you drive it. Attack and release controls on the 1176 do the duty there, albeit with more control than the 2A.
So what's this based on then? Saturation at the preamp that evens our "volatility"? Or some non-linearity in how the threshold behaves?
Old 4 weeks ago
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Dont know about hardware but Tokyo Dawn's Kotelnikov is another plugin that is really good about this.

https://www.tokyodawn.net/tdr-kotelnikov/

This is the anti-pumping magic part:

-"Crest factor" based control scheme offering independent release controls for peak and RMS events
Old 4 weeks ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowzin View Post
Dont know about hardware but Tokyo Dawn's Kotelnikov is another plugin that is really good about this.

https://www.tokyodawn.net/tdr-kotelnikov/

This is the anti-pumping magic part:

-"Crest factor" based control scheme offering independent release controls for peak and RMS events
It's surprising if no-one had looked at it in hardware. I mean, those kinds of things in software are "an evolution of dynamic range compression". So it's sort of odd, if hw manufacturers would be interested in just "making yet another SSL/UA/API/Neve clone", rather than explore digitally-controlled analogue, where one could employ all sorts of statistical ideas to create really flexible and precise compressors.

One could maybe also explore using software and hardware comps in conjunction. Rather than expect do-it-all.
Old 4 weeks ago
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Yeah, theyre out there I just have no experience with them. Check out stuff marketed as mastering comps or bus comps, where excessive pumping would be unacceptable. The mastering engineer I did some work with had a Weiss DS-1, which is super expensive but there's a plugin available also. I think thats a hardware/software hybrid like perhaps you described. There's also Vertigo Sound VSC-3 VCA compressor which has some special settings, and also have some plugin options available. I'm sure there are others but the prices are way out of my league. For something affordable, consider perhaps one of the SSL clones on the market, like the AudioScape SSL clone. Those can be set for a really fast release to reduce pumping, or Auto/program-dependent release.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowzin View Post
Yeah, theyre out there I just have no experience with them. Check out stuff marketed as mastering comps or bus comps, where excessive pumping would be unacceptable. The mastering engineer I did some work with had a Weiss DS-1, which is super expensive but there's a plugin available also. I think thats a hardware/software hybrid like perhaps you described. There's also Vertigo Sound VSC-3 VCA compressor which has some special settings, and also have some plugin options available. I'm sure there are others but the prices are way out of my league. For something affordable, consider perhaps one of the SSL clones on the market, like the AudioScape SSL clone. Those can be set for a really fast release to reduce pumping, or Auto/program-dependent release.
The Dangerous Compressor also probably does something special. Since I've seen videos about it doing -20dB GR and the meter seems to follow the material very accurately. At €3300 it's not particularly inexpensive though. For a mastering studio it's pretty cheap though, since e.g. the elysia Alpha costs almost €10k.

Still I think it should be perfectly viable to have this kind of compressor for €800-€1500.
Old 4 weeks ago
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https://www.adt-audio.com/ProAudio/T...ompressor.html

Seems okay priced at around €830/stereo. Not sure what it's like.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9
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Stuff like that has been done nearly 100 years ago in broadcast limiters. Multiple release times, program dependent attack and release times e.g.. Later on came sidechain highpass filters, lookahead (yes, in the analag domain: EMT 266). A very good example for a current product with all these features is the ADT audio TM222 compressor you mentioned. I have one of these. It´s my go-to bus compressor.
Old 4 weeks ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jensenmann View Post
Stuff like that has been done nearly 100 years ago in broadcast limiters. Multiple release times, program dependent attack and release times e.g.. Later on came sidechain highpass filters, lookahead (yes, in the analag domain: EMT 266). A very good example for a current product with all these features is the ADT audio TM222 compressor you mentioned. I have one of these. It´s my go-to bus compressor.
Can you recommend what brands and models to look for if I wanted to get a 2nd hand broadcast limiter?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #11
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The above mentioned EMT 266 is good for shaving off transients due to it´s look ahead function
TAB U73 (b) tube limiters are a thing of beauty but more or less unobtainium, hence very very expensive if they ever show up. There´s a DIY project available from dripelectronics. I don´t know how close this comes to the original U73, though.
Rohde & schwarz U23 were broadcast limiters, too. There´s a remake available from vacuvox.com. Unfortunately very expensive, too.

If you wan´t a good analog limiter without lookahead then look into the NTP 179-400 cards. They come racked as NTP 179-470 and can be upgraded to have access to all the parameters. But I guess that has to be DIYed.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12
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But why hasn't that tech been improved?

I usually shy away from buying vintage, because I believe that there should be improved designs. There are some exceptions though, e.g. the Quadraverb, I find, still hasn't been "fully" replicated in plug-ins.
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