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Make bad singers sound good w/o autotune
Old 3 weeks ago
  #121
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
With all due respect PM, "today's singers"...

Don't generally sing as well as singers 30+ years ago. Hey, I was "there" around L.A. "The Strip", etc.

Back in the day, as Bob Ohlsson will tell 'ya,
whether a said singer, could fill seats live-was a big factor.
Chris
Times change. I don't really want to come over all "Desire Inspires" on you but those same singers transplanted to today wouldn't fill the same seats live. Too many other things going on!

I certainly wasn't "there"...but we're also talking personal experience vs detachment. I have a lot of great memories of gigs that were most likely fairly awful

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
Marie writes great original songs and so do a lot of talented people out there. I just posted her latest upload.

Anyway originality doesn't seem to be a requirement of The Voice and other such shows. Its wall to wall covers. I watch them occasionally at the start of the season just to see who is out there yet the Sociopathic nature of the shows gets to me and I stop watching.

Nurturing talent my foot.
The Voice is an entertainment show based on stories, not music. The winners are not necessarily the best singers.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #122
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The key difference is singing "Attitude" vs. REAL Soul.
Chris
Old 3 weeks ago
  #123
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
The key difference is singing "Attitude" vs. REAL Soul.
Chris
mmm...if you say so! Shall I get off your lawn while I'm at it?! :P
Old 3 weeks ago
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
Sure, its a conspiracy theory, yet why is there so much fantastic unsigned talent on YouTube? Seriously.

One of favourite artists is Marie Digby.

Here's here latest vid which is a cover yet she writes great originals too.



Marie was a signed artist at one point, yet you have to wonder why SOO much talent just like her isn't in the charts at the moment.
Because it takes more than just raw talent to get signed, get noticed, sell records, get and hold on to a fan base etc....there's no magic formula in the music business. Record companies are going to sign acts they think will make them money, the more the better.

There are any number of reasons why an artist can't get signed or hold down a contract...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Because it takes more than just raw talent to get signed, get noticed, sell records, get and hold on to a fan base etc....there's no magic formula in the music business. Record companies are going to sign acts they think will make them money, the more the better.

There are any number of reasons why an artist can't get signed or hold down a contract...
Sure, yet this doesn't counter my argument that the Industry is just being sociopathic towards the talent and the better artists are just refusing to cooperate.

Marie's career seems to be tapering down lately yet she has some video's with many millions of hits. Some over 20 million and at one time a significant fan base in California, Phillipines and Japan.

Who knows. I don't want to pry really, yet my point is that there is some significant talent out there that can really sing and their not getting mainstream industry support.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
mmm...if you say so! Shall I get off your lawn while I'm at it?! :P
LOL!
Hit me up, if you're ever visiting around Laguna Beach. I can introduce you to some local talent, that'll amaze you (in a good way!).

I can tell it'd be a blast to work with you,
in the studio. Someone with a great sense of humor, really makes things better.
Chris
Old 3 weeks ago
  #127
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
Marie was a signed artist at one point
This works against the conspiracy theory. If she was signed by the all-powerful record label Illuminati and if everything was up to them, then she would be 'in the charts' right now.

I think you could say "the system worked" in this case. A talented artist got "signed". Then what? Well then the public "votes". She had a shot. Not everybody even gets that much of a shot! So much is just weird luck and timing and zeitgeist. I think one thing we are all agreed upon is that the labels only care about making money. Well, if she was still making money for them, she would still be signed. What is 'sociopathic' about not wanting to lose money?

Quote:
yet you have to wonder why SOO much talent just like her isn't in the charts at the moment.
Over the years I have met many people who were so good I asked myself why isn't this person Big Time? I think it is because there have always been more talented artists than there are available "slots" for those artists. And MOST of those slots are already filled with mostly excellent artists. The limiting factor of the slots is not some guy in a suit deciding, it's the limited attention-span of a fickle public.

Of course now we have YouTube, and we see just how many of these people there truly are. Far more than we might ever "meet" in person or see locally. More even than we can "follow". IMO, you have to be more than good. You have to be very very lucky. You have to be in the Right Place At the Right Time and several other intangible factors that we are only able to recognize in retrospect.

Humans like to 'swarm' - to dig the same thing everyone else is digging. The internet was supposed to "democratize" this process, but the internet also gave us Rebecca Black, so...

There's only so much room in the collective mindspace to pay attention to 'X' amount of musical artists. We can say "Cream Will Rise To The Top", or we can also say "S#it Floats". Either way, the neck of the bottle is still the narrowest part.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
Sure, yet this doesn't counter my argument that the Industry is just being sociopathic towards the talent and the better artists are just refusing to cooperate.

Marie's career seems to be tapering down lately yet she has some video's with many millions of hits. Some over 20 million and at one time a significant fan base in California, Phillipines and Japan.

Who knows. I don't want to pry really, yet my point is that there is some significant talent out there that can really sing and their not getting mainstream industry support.
Are you saying/suggesting that the "industry" has some kind of pact to shut out people with talent? This is some theory alright. It has been my experience that if the record labels think he would make them money, they would sign satan himself.

Millions of YouTube hits does not automatically mean millions of sales or sold out concerts, and a lot of good talent not getting signed is nothing new, and is not exclusive to music. But it is curious why someone with a "significant fan base" in different parts of the world and who's videos get tens of millions of views can't get attention from the labels...or why she would even need label support.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #129
Gear Head
 

Turn on autotune first so they can hear how they sound with it on the headphones. Then let them manipulate autotune with their voice and record live.. (i.e., with autotune on while recording so they can hear the playback)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
This works against the conspiracy theory. If she was signed by the all-powerful record label Illuminati and if everything was up to them, then she would be 'in the charts' right now.
I actually accept/agree with much of your above post that I just cut out.
Just on the quoted point. Yes the industry signs them. Then chews them up and spits them out.

I guess I will answer of flesh out my question and say that the Music Industry has a long history of being a Mafia like business and giving artists bad deals.

These days I guess that more and more artists won't accept such bad deals and are more willing to give it a go on their own.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
These days I guess that more and more artists won't accept such bad deals and are more willing to give it a go on their own.
This is a very different argument from the "conspiracy theory" you floated before.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #132
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
LOL!
Hit me up, if you're ever visiting around Laguna Beach. I can introduce you to some local talent, that'll amaze you (in a good way!).

I can tell it'd be a blast to work with you,
in the studio. Someone with a great sense of humor, really makes things better.
Chris
hah thank you and I will!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
I actually accept/agree with much of your above post that I just cut out.
Just on the quoted point. Yes the industry signs them. Then chews them up and spits them out.

I guess I will answer of flesh out my question and say that the Music Industry has a long history of being a Mafia like business and giving artists bad deals.

These days I guess that more and more artists won't accept such bad deals and are more willing to give it a go on their own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
This is a very different argument from the "conspiracy theory" you floated before.
Amen I don't think anyone is denying that major labels get it spectacularly wrong sometimes - I can think of at least 3 artists locally who had major promise, signed deals with big smiles on both sides and then never released anything - despite material being available - before being dropped a couple of years later.

But it's not a conspiracy. And some artists get very good deals! And others choose to go it alone, and sink or swim on those results.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #133
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norfolk martin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Are you saying/suggesting that the "industry" has some kind of pact to shut out people with talent? This is some theory alright. It has been my experience that if the record labels think he would make them money, they would sign satan himself.
Agreed. I remember the argument that "the industry controls what the public hears, and deliberately shuts out people with real talent and promotes mediocrities" was every bit as common in the 70s long before autotune, or ferocious digital comping and editing of vocal tracks, or persistent "thickening" with professional singers, or any of the other evils now complained of. 90% of the time its chasing public taste, not getting ahead of it

I think Sam is correct that the "industry" is just like any other business. It wants (and needs) to make money. It's doing so in a market where there is a huge amount of randomness at to what the public does or does not latch on to. The idea of an industry "controlling" public taste is a popular one, but not really much in evidence. It pretty much makes its bet, and puts up the result to see who buys it.

Indeed, I find a certain inherent snobbery in the idea that the public needs to be "educated" by a group of music enthusiasts to choose music made by (in the view of the same enthusiasts) "talented and worthwhile artists" instead of being "manipulated " by the industry to choose pretty people singing the gooey, substance-less pop that they naturally like.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #134
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Are you saying/suggesting that the "industry" has some kind of pact to shut out people with talent? This is some theory alright. It has been my experience that if the record labels think he would make them money, they would sign satan himself.
and if they were losing them money, they would dump The Beatles!

The conspiracy theorists cannot have it both ways. Either the labels only care about money OR they are deliberately shooting themselves in the financial foot by "ignoring" talented artists. I have no love for these weasels, but I can't imagine them being so 'evil' that they would lose money just to 'screw' a talented artist.

Everything this conspiracy blames on the labels really is the 'fault' of a fickle public, chance and happenstance.

Quote:
But it is curious why someone with a "significant fan base" in different parts of the world and who's videos get tens of millions of views can't get attention from the labels...
She did get attention from the labels. According to AnthonyG, she was a "signed artist at one point". What happened? Who can say? Only looking in the rear-view mirror do we say "oh, her record came out the same week as Adele" or whatever. It doesn't really "explain" anything, because you can still ask why wasn't Adele the one who slipped into obscurity?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #135
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post

I guess I will answer of flesh out my question and say that the Music Industry has a long history of being a Mafia like business and giving artists bad deals.
Yet here you are - complaining that 'your' artist is not getting one of those "deals"!

Quote:
These days I guess that more and more artists won't accept such bad deals and are more willing to give it a go on their own.
Where they can have a million hits on YouTube and not make a dime? No sorry, as bad as those deals are, everybody wants one. The "new paradigm" just allows YouTube to profit off of their popularity instead of a label profiting.

Once, I was climbing an apple tree and some apples above fell down and hit me on the head. It hurt. I was alone, and I knew they had been shaken loose by my climbing, but I was still "angry" and couldn't let go of it. I really wanted to feel like getting hit in the head by the apples was not something that happened to me, but something that was done to me.

Conspiracy theory is the idea that there is 'agency' behind every event. Someone is making it happen. My view of life is that most things are NOT like that.
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