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Wham bam thank you Stam
Old 4 weeks ago
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swafford View Post
Did I poop my pants?
Why, did you eat them?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #62
din
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I got a 1073MPA from them and it's great!
Still waiting on my SA76-ADG one year later...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #63
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It has been something else to see the whole saga of Stam and Heiserman, and the capsules that did or didn’t have too much variability...

...and the resolution of Stam now buying capsules from Campbell. Who many people say good things about, but whose capsules stopped being used in the Tab Funkenwerk UM25 because Oliver thought there was too much variability. At least that’s what I was told when I asked why they had stopped using them. Not sure if that was the truth since I didn’t personally examine the caps but I always took Oliver at his word with stuff like that, and maybe Tim’s worked that out if so.

Hey I’m just having a snack here in the peanut gallery.

Maybe just maybe there is something to buying gear from well established companies. Maybe just maybe there is some Dunning Kruger effect going on with some of these makers...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #64
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Tim and Eric are great guys-I've met both.
I have the upmost confidence, in the (very) off chance a capsule was sub-par...

They'd make good on it.

I've only sang/tested through a limited number of their capsules, but they sounded terrific!
Chris
Old 4 weeks ago
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Tim and Eric are great guys-I've met both.
I have the upmost confidence, in the (very) off chance a capsule was sub-par...

They'd make good on it.

I've only sang/tested through a limited number of their capsules, but they sounded terrific!
Chris
I’m sure that may be true but that’s a different matter from whether or not there is acceptable tolerance within a run of product, or *between different runs of product*. Then how it gets through the shipping process - which can put a beating on some things, and then how the product tolerance holds up with age.

It is fundamentally easier (and far more likely) for a shop that is making things all in house, with top notch equipment, testing gear, anechoic chamber, etc, to put out product with tight tolerances. One that can print you out frequency responses in the case of mics, and *will*.

This is not to say an individual mic might not make a good impression on voice, on a NAMM showroom floor or whatever.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
... Then how it gets through the shipping process - which can put a beating on some things, and then how the product tolerance holds up with age.
And when the big guys ship to a retailer, it's often a big stack shrink-wrapped to a pallet and moved with a forklift. When the boutiques ship, it's one unit at a time and the shipping companies tend to treat them as projectiles. Seems odd to associate a forklift with TLC, but it's the case here.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
I’m sure that may be true but that’s a different matter from whether or not there is acceptable tolerance within a run of product, or *between different runs of product*.
That's true, and we don't know the status of their consistency since the report you mentioned is from many years ago. I suspect that things are not the same today as they were then, but this, too, is speculation.

Have you heard of consistency issues from specific products which currently use these components?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
And when the big guys ship to a retailer, it's often a big stack shrink-wrapped to a pallet and moved with a forklift. When the boutiques ship, it's one unit at a time and the shipping companies tend to treat them as projectiles. Seems odd to associate a forklift with TLC, but it's the case here.
I've ordered countless audio gear and not once did any of it arrive at my place on a pallet. Every product is susceptible to single-unit treatment, if that's even an issue.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
I've ordered countless audio gear and not once did any of it arrive at my place on a pallet.
Your place being a retail music store with a distribution hub that receives pallet-size orders?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
I’m sure that may be true but that’s a different matter from whether or not there is acceptable tolerance within a run of product, or *between different runs of product*. Then how it gets through the shipping process - which can put a beating on some things, and then how the product tolerance holds up with age.

It is fundamentally easier (and far more likely) for a shop that is making things all in house, with top notch equipment, testing gear, anechoic chamber, etc, to put out product with tight tolerances. One that can print you out frequency responses in the case of mics, and *will*.

This is not to say an individual mic might not make a good impression on voice, on a NAMM showroom floor or whatever.
Thanks Toledo, I "get" all that.
IMHO it's like buying a Bock microphone, with a Haun capsule...

"Don't worry, be happy! :-)
Chris
Old 4 weeks ago
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
That's true, and we don't know the status of their consistency since the report you mentioned is from many years ago. I suspect that things are not the same today as they were then, but this, too, is speculation.

Have you heard of consistency issues from specific products which currently use these components?
That is the case. I agree with you. As far as the second question goes, not really. I have a C12CG with a vintage CK12 from Klaus, a custom tube mic with a Haun CK12 capsule from Bock, and a solid state mic with a Beesneez CK12. Sooo, I have not had it high up my list to investigate the current status of the Campbell stuff. I have no reason to doubt the anecdotal claims I hear about the work being really good...though that wasn’t the actual nature of the complaint. Only someone ordering a bunch of the caps across various runs is going to be in a position to comment on that.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Thanks Toledo, I "get" all that.
IMHO it's like buying a Bock microphone, with a Haun capsule...

"Don't worry, be happy! :-)
Chris
Haun/MBHO is a long established capsule maker, peers of Neumann and AKG really (having all made gear for Telefunken), steeped in deep tradition, extremely skilled at getting a stable capsule produced. Bock, takes his job very seriously, has a very scientific and logical approach, and has a testing setup that many do not. I think it’s actually a bit of an outlier scenario amongst modern boutique mic makers.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Your place being a retail music store with a distribution hub that receives pallet-size orders?
Heh. Obviously, the point was that single-unit shipping practices, for better or worse, enter the equation at some point in either scenario. I can ship a km184 to my place and it's susceptible to FedEx the same as a Stam -- the point was a non-starter.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snail View Post

Secondly, he explains the business model. Preorder funds go to buy parts for the units. People have gone so far as to call it a Ponzi scheme. Well, it’s clearly not that, or any kind of scam, if the business owner is openly explaining it himself. Whether it’s risky or not I cannot say, but it’s not a scam.
I agree. If they are taking your money to buy parts necessary for your order , it's not, by definition, a Ponzi scheme. A Ponzi scheme involves using money from new clients to pay off an obligation to prior clients. Classically, it also takes more than one new client's money to pay off the obligation to the previous client, so the number of new clients has to continually rise exponentially to pay off the existing clients.


Only buying inventory when you have an order is also an established practice. Modern industrial production theory encourages such a "JIT" model as the most financially efficient way to work - essentially "inventory consumes money and space, and adds no value, so don't order parts until they're needed, and don't carry an unsold inventory of finished goods. "

It's a very sensible model for a small business, because you can go under pretty quickly from liquidity problems if you get all your cash tied up in parts waiting for assembly, and unsold inventory.

Such a model should not cause very long lead times, however, just the opposite. They are "batching" which is, again not unusual for a small company. Order an instrument from Rickenbacker, and its quite possible to be told that the next batch of those will be made in January 2020.


I'd not actually heard of the company before this. Anyone got any impressions of the SA-87?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
Haun/MBHO is a long established capsule maker, peers of Neumann and AKG really (having all made gear for Telefunken), steeped in deep tradition, extremely skilled at getting a stable capsule produced. Bock, takes his job very seriously, has a very scientific and logical approach, and has a testing setup that many do not. I think it’s actually a bit of an outlier scenario amongst modern boutique mic makers.
Excellent points.
Along with that, I haven't seen any complaints regarding the capsules Tim has made for FLEA.
Also there is a major rift between Stam and Heiserman, so any discussion may be colored accordingly.
Chris
Old 4 weeks ago
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
Heh. Obviously, the point was that single-unit shipping practices, for better or worse, enter the equation at some point in either scenario. I can ship a km184 to my place and it's susceptible to FedEx the same as a Stam -- the point was a non-starter.
Okay. Fine.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Excellent points.
Along with that, I haven't seen any complaints regarding the capsules Tim has made for FLEA.
Also there is a major rift between Stam and Heiserman, so any discussion may be colored accordingly.
Chris
Part of what was in my mind, is that even with that Stam/Heiserman thing, no one may be the “bad guy”, and both may be on the level and telling the truth. The capsules could have been sitting in a shipping container getting pummeled by the sun and humidity for weeks on end for all we know, instead of express shipped quick as possible and avoiding some beating with travel. There are just so many ways for things to go sideways.

I know that when you buy an actual Neumann, the guys who make the capsules aren’t throwing the people who make the mic part under the bus on Internet forums, and getting one part to the other department is a walk down the hall . And that they test everything and if something isn’t to spec, it can be handled in house. My sympathies to anyone who bought one of the Stams with the Heiserman, and who see the resale price plummet because people rightfully don’t have faith in the result after the manufacturer themselves called it into question. Or because people want the “new and improved version”. Another inevitable fallout from buying from companies that haven’t been through many product iterations. Sometimes that works out to your favor, sometimes not.

Mics are really the hardest thing to get truly right, when very small difference is magnified maybe more than in any other piece of gear.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #78
Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk martin View Post
I'd not actually heard of the company before this. Anyone got any impressions of the SA-87?
Yes, I got a SA-87 in February or so and I love it. That and the SA-47 are my go-to mics now for male and female vox.

I shot out the SA-87 against my 87ai, which I had been using for vocals primarily before. The SA-87 eats the 87ai for breakfast. It is much smoother and takes EQ much better. It also cost 1/3 the price ($699 new) of my 87ai ($2k used). It’s by far the best “bang for buck” mic I’ve ever purchased. The SA-47 is also lovely but obviously much more expensive: I use it on acoustic instruments and vocals that want a less mid-forward/energetic sound.

The SA-87 is not modeled after the 87ai, of course, but after some vintage 87. But I don’t have a vintage 87 to shoot it out against (or any other 87 clone).
Old 4 weeks ago
  #79
Company Rep
Hi Guys,

Tolerances are not only set by the manufacturers but also by me. We have a very strict procedure and anything above our standard tolerances is rejected and sent back to the manufacturer. This is the main reason we had so many problems with our previous provider, some batches we would reject up to 60% of the capsules. Many of them were faulty as well (noisy and other related problems)

Tim is very thorough on his testing and in a different league compared to anybody else when it comes to making capsules. He is regarded as one of (if not the) best capsule maker in the world.

His K67 bring our SA67 to a whole new level and I can't wait for people to hear it

Thanks
Josh
Old 3 weeks ago
  #80
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Yeah OK but why is no one talking about how hawt Joshua is

PS I got the Stam-87 and returned it (just didn't love it) and had a generally pretty darn smooth experience
Old 3 weeks ago
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacha View Post
Yeah OK but why is no one talking about how hawt Joshua is...
If GS was in Meat Space you'd take a quick look around and know why.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #82
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Hey, I resemble that remark!
Chris
Old 3 weeks ago
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacha View Post
I got the Stam-87 and returned it (just didn't love it) and had a generally pretty darn smooth experience
Did it not stack up to other U87 designs? Or is the U87 design just not something you love?

I'm specifically looking for a U87 and have heard that the Stam is as good or perhaps better than Neumann's.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
Did it not stack up to other U87 designs? Or is the U87 design just not something you love?

I'm specifically looking for a U87 and have heard that the Stam is as good or perhaps better than Neumann's.
For my taste it was too dark, a lot darker than I remember the U87AI I had being. I expected it to be a bit smoother than the newer Neumann but it wasn't what I was looking for in a vocal mic.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacha View Post
For my taste it was too dark, a lot darker than I remember the U87AI I had being. I expected it to be a bit smoother than the newer Neumann but it wasn't what I was looking for in a vocal mic.
Gotcha -- thanks! We're thinking VO, primarily, but darkness isn't something we'd want in VO or vocals.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #86
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
Heh. Obviously, the point was that single-unit shipping practices, for better or worse, enter the equation at some point in either scenario. I can ship a km184 to my place and it's susceptible to FedEx the same as a Stam -- the point was a non-starter.
What's the weather like in Chile?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #87
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuanaconda View Post
Hi Guys,

Tolerances are not only set by the manufacturers but also by me. We have a very strict procedure and anything above our standard tolerances is rejected and sent back to the manufacturer. This is the main reason we had so many problems with our previous provider, some batches we would reject up to 60% of the capsules. Many of them were faulty as well (noisy and other related problems)

Tim is very thorough on his testing and in a different league compared to anybody else when it comes to making capsules. He is regarded as one of (if not the) best capsule maker in the world.

His K67 bring our SA67 to a whole new level and I can't wait for people to hear it

Thanks
Josh
So Heiserman capsules are shoddy? 60% rejection? Makes me wonder how they just released a mic (that happens to compete with yours)?......
Old 3 weeks ago
  #88
Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo View Post
Gotcha -- thanks! We're thinking VO, primarily, but darkness isn't something we'd want in VO or vocals.
I would be very surprised if many people found it “dark” compared to a U87ai. The output is much lower than a 87ai, but when level matched, they are very close but the main difference is the 87ai has a bit of harshness that the SA87 doesn’t have, and the latter takes EQ much better.

I’d look for some audio samples so you can hear for yourself.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
What's the weather like in Chile?
?? What did I miss?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #90
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elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snail View Post
I would be very surprised if many people found it “dark” compared to a U87ai. The output is much lower than a 87ai, but when level matched, they are very close but the main difference is the 87ai has a bit of harshness that the SA87 doesn’t have, and the latter takes EQ much better.

I’d look for some audio samples so you can hear for yourself.
One vote for the SA87 being more harsh and one for it being less harsh. The audio samples are a good idea, though I typically prefer word-of-mouth to sound samples, unless they were carefully crafted and in the same room. The variation between signal chains, and environments, can suggest differences that aren't due to the mics themselves.
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