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how to get over 50% wet signal using aux send???
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
Lives for gear
how to get over 50% wet signal using aux send???

OK - this is kind of a dumb question and something I should know given how long i've been doing this. But when using my aux sends (we're talking hardware mixers here) how can i get a greater than fifty percent wet mix - or even 100%?? Should I be using my PFL for this or something? Basically when i back off on the original signal fader it sends less to the aux send too ... so it really does nothing. What would be the 'proper' way of going about this other than just sending my signal into my reverb/compressor/whatever directly?
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Lives for gear
anyone? simple question ...
Old 1 week ago
  #3
Lives for gear
 

It depends on how the mixer is configured. If the aux is pre fader then the fader move won't effect the aux signal. If the aux is post fader (sounds like yours is) then any fader move will also effect the aux signal.
The percentage of wet to dry is a function and setting of whatever outboard gear the aux is connected to and has nothing to do with the mixer.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
Lunar Attic's Avatar
Use a pre fader aux send..?

T
Old 1 week ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 

efx sends are typically set up post fader* and the wet/dry balance is set up in the efx devices. set the devices to 100% wet if used in a typical send/return situation and use afl**, not pfl, to hear what's going on; channel plus efx return for the balance between channel (dry) and efx (wet), efx return only to hear (and maybe adjust) the efx.


* i do sometimes set up efx sends pre fader on very dynamic channels (post insert) in order to keep the amount of reverb under control (or for specific efx such as pitch shifters for the same reason actually).

** needs to be 'true' afl, not solo or you possibly won't hear anything if soloing the efx return (depends on the implementation/look up the specs and adjust accordingly: some desks allow for switching between pfl, afl and sip, have multiple 'solo' busses and/or you can select on a channel basis what to use) - or simply take off channel from the main bus.
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by junkshop View Post
It depends on how the mixer is configured. If the aux is pre fader then the fader move won't effect the aux signal. If the aux is post fader (sounds like yours is) then any fader move will also effect the aux signal.
The percentage of wet to dry is a function and setting of whatever outboard gear the aux is connected to and has nothing to do with the mixer.
soundcraft delta.

no maybe you misunderstand - i keep my outboard gear 100% 'wet'. But with a post fader aux send - when you back off the primary signal from unity gain, it drops the level of feed to the aux send accordingly. I keep the aux sends at around 40-50% though since otherwise I overload my (let's say my lexicon 300L which i'm using a lot lately) I can drop that fade down to nothing to have 100% dry ... but there would be no way of having 100% wet signal since the feed to the reverb is always a fixed percentage of what's going to the dry signal channel if you get my drift.

so the maxiumum theoretical amount of mix is going to be 50% or so... so this is why I'm wondering how others do it - I considered using the PFL but I have the impression it's not good for he console to keep it on (not to mention it's functioning like a solo)
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
efx sends are typically set up post fader* and the wet/dry balance is set up in the efx devices. set the devices to 100% wet if used in a typical send/return situation and use afl**, not pfl, to hear what's going on; channel plus efx return for the balance between channel (dry) and efx (wet), efx return only to hear (and maybe adjust) the efx.


* i do sometimes set up efx sends pre fader on very dynamic channels (post insert) in order to keep the amount of reverb under control (or for specific efx such as pitch shifters for the same reason actually).

** needs to be 'true' afl, not solo or you possibly won't hear anything if soloing the efx return (depends on the implementation/look up the specs and adjust accordingly: some desks allow for switching between pfl, afl and sip or have multiple 'solo' busses).


hmmm - maybe if i just turn off the dry channel? I guess i should try that first ... i'd assumed i wouldn't get any signal going to my aux sends then ...
Old 1 week ago
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitsmith View Post
soundcraft delta.

no maybe you misunderstand - i keep my outboard gear 100% 'wet'. But with a post fader aux send - when you back off the primary signal from unity gain, it drops the level of feed to the aux send accordingly. I keep the aux sends at around 40-50% though since otherwise I overload my (let's say my lexicon 300L which i'm using a lot lately) I can drop that fade down to nothing to have 100% dry ... but there would be no way of having 100% wet signal since the feed to the reverb is always a fixed percentage of what's going to the dry signal channel if you get my drift.

so the maxiumum theoretical amount of mix is going to be 50% or so... so this is why I'm wondering how others do it - I considered using the PFL but I have the impression it's not good for he console to keep it on (not to mention it's functioning like a solo)
...what goes into the efx device is always 100% dry (unless your feeding one efx device from another efx device). if an efx device gets fed post fader, the efx level will move along with the channel fader level - the balance (we/dry relationship) between the channel and efx return could be adjusted in various places: channel send level, aux master level, efx dry/wet ratio of the efx device and the efx return level but i wouldn't mess with the former three (as you mentioned, you might overdrive the efx).

check max. analog i/o levels (measured in dBU) of both your desk and the efx device: once you properly established levels( gain staging), i suggest you use the fader/pot of the efx return only to decide on what amout of efx you want/need to hear.

forget about any percentage then: you will mostly NOT want to have the efx return at unity gain or you will end up with a huge wash (unless you're using an efx device on a very 'transparent' setting)!

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 1 week ago at 01:55 PM.. Reason: edited twice for clarification
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Gear Maniac
 

If you de-assign the original channel from the stereo bus you will have 100% wet signal and your aux send will still work.

Jeff
Old 1 week ago
  #10
Gear Head
 
mookmoof's Avatar
Prefader=fader does not affect send level
So, configure send prefader, set up return on other channel. Now you have separate channels for dry and reverb. 100% is volume up on reverb channel and all the way down on dry channel
Old 1 week ago
  #11
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
...what goes into the efx device is always 100% dry (unless your feeding one efx device from another efx device). if an efx device gets fed post fader, the efx level will move along with the channel fader level - the balance (we/dry relationship) between the channel and efx return could be adjusted in various places: channel send level, aux master level, efx dry/wet ratio of the efx device and the efx return level but i wouldn't mess with the former three (as you mentioned, you might overdrive the efx).

check max. analog i/o levels (measured in dBU) of both your desk and the efx device: once you properly established levels( gain staging), i suggest you use the fader/pot of the efx return only to decide on what amout of efx you want/need to hear.

forget about any percentage then: you will mostly NOT want to have the efx return at unity gain or you will end up with a huge wash (unless you're using an efx device on a very 'transparent' setting)!
thanks yes - actually it's the 'huge wash' i'm going for in this case ... hoping to use the reverb as more of a 'special effect' ... I know i can do that by changing my signal routing (daisy chaining etc) on the patchbay but I would prefer not to have to change my routing for similar projects etc ... it's just something i'd overlooked all this time for whatever reason
Old 1 week ago
  #12
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Goodman View Post
If you de-assign the original channel from the stereo bus you will have 100% wet signal and your aux send will still work.

Jeff
ahhh - i think THAT'S probably the trick i was looking for - thanks .. will try tonight. I wasn't sure i would be able to do that and have it work.
Old 1 week ago
  #13
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mookmoof View Post
Prefader=fader does not affect send level
So, configure send prefader, set up return on other channel. Now you have separate channels for dry and reverb. 100% is volume up on reverb channel and all the way down on dry channel
yes I should think that would be the way to go (I'd feel better not having it go through another fader as well) - i'm just not sure i can do that on my board using the PFL (since that solos signals no?)
Old 1 week ago
  #14
Lives for gear
 

If you are working on a daw, turn down the fader output from the daw, crank the fader on the desk and crank the fx ret.
Old 1 week ago
  #15
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellyd View Post
If you are working on a daw, turn down the fader output from the daw, crank the fader on the desk and crank the fx ret.
thanks - might work but since the hardware desk i'm keeping as a kind of 'submix' desk - signals from the stereo out of that get sent to daw when recording ... i'm just trying to sort things out with this subsystem first ...
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