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Mesa OR Marshall....
Old 26th October 2002
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Mesa OR Marshall....

I know this is kinda stupid, and I'm sure it's been mentioned before:

If u had a choice between a boogie dual rectifier 100 watt or a marshall JCM 2000 tsl head 100watt, wut would u go for? Let's say yer looking for really thick, heavy, FAT, distorted, Rammstien oriented guitar sound.
Old 27th October 2002
  #2
Lives for gear
 
imacgreg's Avatar
Well, I am usually particular to Marshalls, but for the sound you described I would choose the Mesa. I don't like the sound of the JCM2000's that much anyway. Rammstein has HUGE guitars, but remember that there is much more to it than the Mesa. I would guess that a lot of those guitars were double and triple tracked, and just layere on top of each other. I also find that personally when I record heavy distorted guitar, I dial in how much distortion I think I need then back off a good amount. Less is more, so you don;t get a big huge mess.


Ian
Old 27th October 2002
  #3
Gear Nut
 

I read somewhere that Rammstien use SM57's into 1073's for their guitars! But i'm not sure about that, as for wut u said, i totally agree with the less is more, but sometimes u need MORE to feel inspired enuff to give a good performance. My plan is to sell my TSL, and buy a Rocktron Prophesy+ a dual rectifier with appropriate cabs. I just need the ****in' money .
Old 27th October 2002
  #4
Gear Maniac
 

Not sure about Rammstein...but NIN I believe is known for sending most of their guitars direct...

By the way NIN =
Old 27th October 2002
  #5
Gear Nut
 

"By the way NIN = "

Sure they do, but Ministry are the masters. Any idea if they go direct, or mic their cabs?
Old 27th October 2002
  #6
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Mike Tholen's Avatar
 

I worked with Ministry from 91 to 96 and we used 50 watt marshalls.
with a 57 and a D12e stuck on the cabinet.

Mesa sent us a few rectifiers when they came out but we sent them back after a few weeks of testing.
they sounded good but Al hated the sound...he prefered his "Flammable" marshall head instead.

NIN uses the Marshall rack unit.

I actually like the sound of the Mesza for that super heavy chunk.
but the Marshall has something the Mesa doesn't...so get both!
Old 27th October 2002
  #7
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Tholen


I actually like the sound of the Mesza for that super heavy chunk.
but the Marshall has something the Mesa doesn't...so get both!
[/B]
That's a true Gearslut comment!heh
Old 27th October 2002
  #8
Lives for gear
 
imacgreg's Avatar
Can't go wrong with that. I've seen a lot of bands live that have preferred Mesa's, but ended up using Marshalls for recording.

I really like experimenting with multiple amp setups to get tones by blending different amps. Instead of just having one amp's tonhe controls and one mic to position, you know have multiple amp tones, phase issues (which are good!!), and possibly multiple mics to play around with. Also, do not rule out the small amplifier.

I remeber reading something about Godsmack (not a fan of song, but of gtr tone; it's big) using all these big amps, then the guy's center tone was a little Fender Tube 15watter cranked with a 57 or something.

For me, when it all comes down to it, I think the most improtant part of a guitar recording is contrast. As one example, think of Nirvana's "Teen Spirit." Song comes in with this "teeny" little clean guitar, and then explodes with these HUGE distortion guitars. What if the clean guitar had been all bluesy,deep, and big?? Would've taken away from the power of the guitars that are supposed to be "big".

"Everything lies in comprison."

Ian
Old 27th October 2002
  #9
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e-cue's Avatar
 

I've been using the boogie dual rectifier extensively the last 6 months to great, great avail. It's very flexible. A couple guitarists I know refer to it as the "Line 6, but with the tubes and circuitry".

Recently I was going after the DUMBLE sound (SRV, Santana). And after a good hour of tweeks, got what we needed. This amp makes my job a lot easier as an engineer.
Old 27th October 2002
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
Neve Sucks!'s Avatar
 

Don´t kill me for saying this.....But the Sansamp plugin in Protools R.O.C.K.
I´ve recently recorded three tracks of downtuned heavy ****. The setup was Bogner top, Marshall 4x12 lead (SM57+Manley Ref C), Sansamp & Ampfarm plugin thru a Manley Voxboc. Recorded four tracks of each, making of total 12 tracks that plays the same riff.......suck on that!!! dfegad

/Mr.Gearzlut
Old 27th October 2002
  #11
Gear Nut
 

"I worked with Ministry from 91 to 96"

Does Al still use the Eventide H3000?
Old 27th October 2002
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
Mats Olsson's Avatar
 

What about Soldano?

/Mats
Old 27th October 2002
  #13
Lives for gear
 
EduardoApolonia's Avatar
 

I think that the modern heavy records are almost all Rectifiers.
I have a triple Rectifier and I can say that it is really fat, The difference in my opinion are the low mids.

It is really a matter of taste, I recently bought a JCM800 Zack Wilde and it has also a fat sound but it is diferent, I prefer the Triple rectifier. I also have tried the JCM2000 but didn't like it much.

Maybe Andy Sneap (Machine Head, Skinlab, Stuck Mojo, Nevermore, Killswitch Engage...) will step on this thred, sometimes he hangs out here on Gearslutz.
He is the man for FAT guitar sound


Just here the guitars on the Killswitch Engage album.
HUGE!!
Old 27th October 2002
  #14
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

the new fu manchu is supposedly the marshall 2k's and the sound is pretty damn fat. i think they are running straight into the amps [no pedals]. best guitar tones they have put out yet.

i like the mesa triple rectifier too. i like mesa cabinets as well. orange cabinets too. they are just bigger than the marshalls with a lot better tone to them. dont have that WHOMP that marshalls have in the low end... just so much tighter.

i actually like a solid state [gasp] mixed in with a tube amp for the type sound you are talking about. i used an ampeg solid state a while back that had a pretty good tone considering....
Old 27th October 2002
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Mike Tholen's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by AgonizingpaiN
"I worked with Ministry from 91 to 96"

Does Al still use the Eventide H3000?
yes, and that would be a plural 'H300's".
when they go on tour we'd have to 'sys ex' all the presets over to the live rigs so that the live guys-monitor and FOH would have all the RIGHT sounds going on, and then they'd switch btween songs...guitar sounds were the same...A MAJOR PITA...but when you saw them live it ****ing killed.
Old 27th October 2002
  #16
High End Moderator
 
mwagener's Avatar
Re: Mesa OR Marshall....

Quote:
Originally posted by AgonizingpaiN

If u had a choice between a boogie dual rectifier 100 watt or a marshall JCM 2000 tsl head 100watt, wut would u go for? Let's say yer looking for really thick, heavy, FAT, distorted, Rammstien oriented guitar sound.
Try an ENGL Savage 120 Special Edition. I have (amongst others) a Mesa DR and a few Marshalls (old Accept amps) and the ENGL wins everytime I do a comparison for fat gutar sound.
Old 27th October 2002
  #17
The only Marshalls I like when I'm looking for heavy guitars:
JCM 800
JMP-! + 9200 (the JMP-1 emultaes the 800s)
JCM 900 and 2000 sucks...
Keep looking for a Dual/Triple Rectifier or VHT Pitbulls....
Old 27th October 2002
  #18
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 

i totally forgot about VHT... but i do like those better than anything else i have heard, especially with the KT88 tubes.
Old 27th October 2002
  #19
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Steve Smith's Avatar
 

I am (was) considering selling the mesa we have... but damn, I just used it again with a guitarist playing a prs looking for a heavy tone.. I just walked out, unplugged all his pedals, rolled the Mesa dual and 4x12 ( with armor plaing to boot ) and holy crow.. boy did that work....
Old 27th October 2002
  #20
I admit to being a hack on this topic (I spent years recording whatever the band brought in with em) so I took Michaels advice and bought the Engle (and cab) as an 'allrounder' rig for the studio.... It's been great! I had a trial till I bought it. A rocking AC30 would be nice next...


Old 27th October 2002
  #21
Jax
Lives for gear
 

I have a friend who is a killer guitar player considering he's a construction worker. The only problem is, his amp is a 80's 100 watt Peavey piece of **** and it sounds like garbage. He wants the Ministry chunk and has been trying to get it from the Peavey but it ain't gonna happen.

He has tried the JCM 900, which smoked his rig obviously, and he loved it. Now, he's asking me about Randall amps ever since he saw them in a musician's friend catalog. I've never heard one (which is a sign in itself). They apparently make one that costs alot and he's wondering how Randall compares to Marshall and the like. My bet is that they don't come close, and I'd guess that if he bought one, it'd be like having Peavey II. Anyone heard a Randall?
Old 28th October 2002
  #22
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davemc's Avatar
 

I have just brought Mesa DR, and have a Marshall JCM800 and Soldano.
They all sound different, for my band I tried the Mesa for a rehersal and went back to my soldano.

I demo'd the Engl's and thought they were nice.
Not real big on the few 2000's I have heard, they sound a little simlar to a JCm900 for me

grudge
Old 28th October 2002
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Tim L's Avatar
 

I find the Carvin Legacy to be quite a good top. Gorgeous clean channel and a rich creamy distortion that I find real pleasing. I've seen them compared to the Bogner Ecstasy though not having played or recorded the Ecstasy myself I really can't say. The amp does remind me of an early 70's Marshall kinda thing and gets into the "brown sound" ballpark quite easily. Widely overlooked amp in my opinion.
Old 28th October 2002
  #24
Gear Head
 

Jax-
Randalls are fine if you want to sound like Def Leppard, or on a good day, Pantera (though there are a lot of rumors that Pantera record with something else). Either way, they have more in common with Crates than with Mesas and Marshalls.
Old 28th October 2002
  #25
Gear Addict
 
Markus Stock's Avatar
 

A great topic! I like both Mesas and Marshalls as well, but for heavy guitars you could also check out the Peavey 5150 if you're on a budget - alot of swedish Death Metal bands using it for the heavy crunch. Don't go for their new Triple X, which is not even close I think. I had to work hard to get a good sound, on the occassions I had it in the studio. I think Randall Amps are fine...they seem to be the coming thing for heavy guitars, though no tubes.....
I think Ramstein make extensive use of the SansAmp - I love their guitars - they are so huge. Maybe 8 guitars or such, playing the same riff. I think they use an amp for the low end, but the high end distortion sounds not like a Marshall or a Mesa - I think it's a Sans Amp.....great Mix, on their last album by Stefan Glauman!! Love it....

Best,
Old 28th October 2002
  #26
Gear Nut
 

What about the ENGL 580 midi tube preamp? I checked it out on their web site and it looks killer!! I read a few reviews and they certainly are more encouraging than all the reviews I read about the Triaxix or the JMP-1.
Old 28th October 2002
  #27
I patch the following into the power amp section of my Engle Savage 120 SE

Marshall JMP-1
Digi-Tech Valve FX (great for 'icing on the cake', lead motifs)

So I have the use of 2 different pre amps as well as the Engle's 4

But very often I will use the Valve FX DI (it has an OK cab simulator) the DI amp sim sound makes a valuable change from the mic'ed sounds - I find it helps to mix it up a little.

I was thinking about getting that Line 6 distortion modeler and plugging that straight into the power amp stage for further variation.

Old 28th October 2002
  #28
I patch the following into the power amp section of my Engle Savage 120 SE

Marshall JMP-1
Digi-Tech Valve FX (great for 'icing on the cake', lead motifs)

So I have the use of 2 different pre amps as well as the Engle's 4

But very often I will use the Valve FX DI (it has an OK cab simulator) the DI amp sim sound makes a valuable change from the mic'ed sounds - I find it helps to mix it up a little.

I was thinking about getting that Line 6 distortion modeler and plugging that straight into the power amp stage for further variation.

Old 28th October 2002
  #29
I'm with davemc... of course all those amps sound different and you need to find out one the you like most (since we're not rich right?! right? )
Of course there will allways be the bogners, soldanos, diezels...
I did an amp shootout a few months later with a Laney VH100, Mesa DR and a Peavey Classic 50 and we found that the Classic 50 is a very good amp.
Now we're trying to put all this together:
JMP-1 + 9200 + 1960 A 4x12 cab
Mesa DR + Mesa Cab w/ 4x12 vintage 30s
Laney VH100 + Laney 4x12 cab
H&K Votex + 4x12 H&K cab
Peavey Bandit II + 4x12 cab
Mesa V-Twin + Mesa 5050 + Mesa 2x12 w/ vintage 30s
We're trying to rent a truck or something to put all those cabs and heads on the studio and try them all w/ a whole bunch of guitars and I'll post the links as soon as we have it...
Old 28th October 2002
  #30
Lives for gear
 
davemc's Avatar
 

Yeah I have to get some boxes as well.
I want a Vintage 30 and a greenback 25's box to go with the 75 Marshall 2 x 12 I borrowed.
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