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Most useful mixing trick you learned from pros
Old 1 week ago
  #421
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Your logic is unbeatable! Chris
Old 1 week ago
  #422
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andychamp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie Mumbles View Post
Lennon always worked with some interesting drummers even tho he said the drums (the beat) often steps on the rythym of the song (where the rythym lies in the rythym instruments). Dylan said the same thing and I think theyre correct. Many times this does seem the case
While the social and music-historical relevance of hiphop is undeniable, this is one area where I think its example has contributed to a loss of nuance in popular music, reaching outside its stylistic borders.
It‘s rare to find young drummers who don‘t think they are THE exclusive rhythmic backbone of their band. At the same time, the ability of instrumentalists to groove and interlock, beyond doubling the drum pattern, is disappearing.
Interesting,though, that this was already a concern before.
/tangent off
Old 1 week ago
  #423
Quote:
Originally Posted by andychamp View Post
While the social and music-historical relevance of hiphop is undeniable, this is one area where I think its example has contributed to a loss of nuance in popular music, reaching outside its stylistic borders.
It‘s rare to find young drummers who don‘t think they are THE exclusive rhythmic backbone of their band. At the same time, the ability of instrumentalists to groove and interlock, beyond doubling the drum pattern, is disappearing.
Interesting,though, that this was already a concern before.
/tangent off
Agreed. Non sampled hip hop, which we largely hear today, comprises of little melody (rythym included within the instruments) and lies far too much on bass and drums to drive the song. At least with older, sampled hip hop, the rythym was many times still there in the rythym instrument of the sample. Yes I have seen many live hip hop drummers that do just hammer away and not really listen right. You can see if a drummer is listening or not, and you can hear it when he’s way too loud lol As a guitar/piano later, Lennon knew where the rythym lied.
Old 1 week ago
  #424
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Drumsound's Avatar
John Lennon was a hell of a rhythm guitar player. He had a really innate sense of rhythm. Listen to how he leads and interacts with the band.

Old 1 week ago
  #425
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post



This is exactly what Alan White is doing. In music school its called a borrowed division. Playing a devision from straight time (4/4) in a triplet feel (12/8) or vice versa. Jazz players use it a lot to great effect.
If Alan White was playing the part, then it was no accident.
Old 1 week ago
  #426
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12ax7's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
This is exactly what Alan White is doing. In music school its called a borrowed division. Playing a devision from straight time (4/4) in a triplet feel (12/8) or vice versa. Jazz players use it a lot to great effect.
This is exactly correct!

And the whole thing is even further complicated by the (sorta off-time) tape echo effect.

That's exactly why that little fill that Mr. White does there (at about :56) is so damn cool:

It sounds (for just a short moment there) like the whole damn thing is gonna "fall on its nose"!

...But instead, it "shines on" (like the moon and the stars and the sun)!
.
Old 1 week ago
  #427
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Chris
Old 1 week ago
  #428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
John Lennon was a hell of a rhythm guitar player. He had a really innate sense of rhythm. Listen to how he leads and interacts with the band.

He is one hell of a rythym player, and he knew it too. There was a George song, I forget off hand, that he was super proud of his work. Mid beatle period. I once heard a rehearsal tape of “The Dirty Mac” that was awesome. It was so 70’s Stoner rock before the 70s. It should be floating around. It was more just jamming, I don’t remember hearing vocals.....here’s the link to the rehearsal, it’s only one song
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qa5zW9VV3zU
Old 1 week ago
  #429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
There are sever borrowed division fills in that song, and one of the things I've loved forever.


YES

He's not rushing. Pooplypants describes it perfectly.



This is exactly what Alan White is doing. In music school its called a borrowed division. Playing a devision from straight time (4/4) in a triplet feel (12/8) or vice versa. Jazz players use it a lot to great effect.
As a slight aside - what about when you’ve got a shuffled feel (ie where the swing isn’t exactly either the triplet, sorry for the over explanation just to make sure I’m clear!)...and then the drummer plays a triplet fill? I often find that makes a clusterf**k with the rest of the rhythm section - if it’s not appropriate for them to join on the triplets - any clever solutions to that issue?
Old 1 week ago
  #430
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Hire Alan White!
Chris
Old 1 week ago
  #431
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
As a slight aside - what about when you’ve got a shuffled feel (ie where the swing isn’t exactly either the triplet, sorry for the over explanation just to make sure I’m clear!)...and then the drummer plays a triplet fill? I often find that makes a clusterf**k with the rest of the rhythm section - if it’s not appropriate for them to join on the triplets - any clever solutions to that issue?
Are we talking about a quick (12/8) triplet, or a half-time (6/8) triplet? And do we have the band on the other side of the glass, so you can point out the trainwreck-in-progress before it's a done deal? Or is this an unfortunate fait accompli?
Old 1 week ago
  #432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Are we talking about a quick (12/8) triplet, or a half-time (6/8) triplet? And do we have the band on the other side of the glass, so you can point out the trainwreck-in-progress before it's a done deal? Or is this an unfortunate fait accompli?
Well, slow enough so that the wreck is noticeable!

I guess if it’s in progress the chances of fixing are easier than if it’s done.
Old 1 week ago
  #433
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Old Goat's Avatar
 

I'm guessing if you are John Lennon, it don't matter. (see how that mind over matter thing works?)
Old 1 week ago
  #434
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Well, slow enough so that the wreck is noticeable!
Okay -- the 12/8 kind will feel a little rushier than the groove, the 6/8 kind will feel really draggy.

Quote:
I guess if it’s in progress the chances of fixing are easier than if it’s done.
As a rhythm player, if I knew a drum fill like that was coming i'd probably just play straight quarters in that spot and leave out the swingy notes in between. Attention will be diverted to the fill anyway, so nobody will notice what you left out.
Old 1 week ago
  #435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Okay -- the 12/8 kind will feel a little rushier than the groove, the 6/8 kind will feel really draggy.



As a rhythm player, if I knew a drum fill like that was coming i'd probably just play straight quarters in that spot and leave out the swingy notes in between. Attention will be diverted to the fill anyway, so nobody will notice what you left out.
Good tip thanks!
Old 1 week ago
  #436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Okay -- the 12/8 kind will feel a little rushier than the groove, the 6/8 kind will feel really draggy.



As a rhythm player, if I knew a drum fill like that was coming i'd probably just play straight quarters in that spot and leave out the swingy notes in between. Attention will be diverted to the fill anyway, so nobody will notice what you left out.
I’m thinking if they did 5 takes of that song, there may well be 5 different fills in that spot. (Quite possible not tho) As there should be. Too much thought in music can be too sterile. You make a good point about dropping out when another cat needs (or wants) to shine, that’s all part of listening to what your cohorts are doing.
Old 1 week ago
  #437
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Old Goat's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
As a rhythm player, if I knew a drum fill like that was coming i'd probably just play straight quarters in that spot and leave out the swingy notes in between. Attention will be diverted to the fill anyway, so nobody will notice what you left out.
Kinda what we did in jazz band, back off and let the drummer do his thing.
Old 1 week ago
  #438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
John Lennon was a hell of a rhythm guitar player. He had a really innate sense of rhythm. Listen to how he leads and interacts with the band.

“I am happy just to dance with you” That’s one of the numbers that Lennon singled out for his rythym playing. It is fantastic in a simple solid way.
Old 1 week ago
  #439
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwlee7 View Post
If Alan White was playing the part, then it was no accident.
INDEED

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
This is exactly correct!

And the whole thing is even further complicated by the (sorta off-time) tape echo effect.

That's exactly why that little fill that Mr. White does there (at about :56) is so damn cool:

It sounds (for just a short moment there) like the whole damn thing is gonna "fall on its nose"!

...But instead, it "shines on" (like the moon and the stars and the sun)!
.
Yeah, the static slap, against the borrowed division, on a tune that probably wan't cut to a click add to those wonderful, wobbly, gonna fall off the tracks thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie Mumbles View Post
He is one hell of a rythym player, and he knew it too. There was a George song, I forget off hand, that he was super proud of his work. Mid beatle period. I once heard a rehearsal tape of “The Dirty Mac” that was awesome. It was so 70’s Stoner rock before the 70s. It should be floating around. It was more just jamming, I don’t remember hearing vocals.....here’s the link to the rehearsal, it’s only one song
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qa5zW9VV3zU
I'll be checking out your links.
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
As a slight aside - what about when you’ve got a shuffled feel (ie where the swing isn’t exactly either the triplet, sorry for the over explanation just to make sure I’m clear!)...and then the drummer plays a triplet fill? I often find that makes a clusterf**k with the rest of the rhythm section - if it’s not appropriate for them to join on the triplets - any clever solutions to that issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Hire Alan White!
Chris

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
As a rhythm player, if I knew a drum fill like that was coming i'd probably just play straight quarters in that spot and leave out the swingy notes in between. Attention will be diverted to the fill anyway, so nobody will notice what you left out.
Yeah, I'm with Chris and Brent on this, if you can't hire Alan White, make sure the rest of the rhythm section is super locked in, and playing on solid dotted quarters on beat, or longer notes, and that they are clear where ONE is. If the whole room knows where ONE is, and it comes back together, that's where it gets really cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie Mumbles View Post
“I am happy just to dance with you” That’s one of the numbers that Lennon singled out for his rythym playing. It is fantastic in a simple solid way.
Looking that one up too. I can't think of it off the top of my head.
Old 1 week ago
  #440
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
I don't know if this got posted but it's a recent talk with Jack Douglas about recording John Lennon with isolated tracks

Old 1 week ago
  #441
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
I don't know if this got posted but it's a recent talk with Jack Douglas about recording John Lennon with isolated tracks

Thank you for posting this. This will be my first task of the workday tommoro. Shame it’s only 28 minutes long. Cheers.....had to watch the first few minutes...”John was thrilled we only bounced 3x, he was used to 6”. Classic.
Old 1 week ago
  #442
Gear Addict
 
Poopypants's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
As a slight aside - what about when you’ve got a shuffled feel (ie where the swing isn’t exactly either the triplet, sorry for the over explanation just to make sure I’m clear!)...and then the drummer plays a triplet fill? I often find that makes a clusterf**k with the rest of the rhythm section - if it’s not appropriate for them to join on the triplets - any clever solutions to that issue?

Tell the drummer to watch how it's done:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d5Hdqyjj5o
Old 1 week ago
  #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
As a rhythm player, if I knew a drum fill like that was coming i'd probably just play straight quarters in that spot and leave out the swingy notes in between. Attention will be diverted to the fill anyway, so nobody will notice what you left out.
This...but a good percussionist will lock things down the rhythm and keep things tight.
Old 1 week ago
  #444
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
This...but a good percussionist will lock things down the rhythm and keep things tight.
Sure. But it's a village.
Old 1 week ago
  #445
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Filled with Village People.
Chris
Old 1 week ago
  #446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
John Lennon was a hell of a rhythm guitar player. He had a really innate sense of rhythm. Listen to how he leads and interacts with the band.

Man, that was flat out cool! I've never seen that clip before. For that matter, it was also the first time I've ever heard of the The Dirty Mac. Thanks for posting!
Old 1 week ago
  #447
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9xSound View Post
Man, that was flat out cool! I've never seen that clip before. For that matter, it was also the first time I've ever heard of the The Dirty Mac. Thanks for posting!
They were a one off for The Rolling Stone's Rock and Roll Circus TV special that never aired. Rumor was that the Stones were but unhappy with their own performance, AND blown away by the Who doing A Quick One While He's Away.

It eventually got released on DVD. I need to watch it again soon. I'm not sure if it streams anywhere.
Old 1 week ago
  #448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
They were a one off for The Rolling Stone's Rock and Roll Circus TV special that never aired. Rumor was that the Stones were but unhappy with their own performance, AND blown away by the Who doing A Quick One While He's Away.

It eventually got released on DVD. I need to watch it again soon. I'm not sure if it streams anywhere.
I always loved Jethro Tulls performance in that too. They all have great performances, even the stones...tho the dirty Mac took the show for me, if only Yoko stuck to “bagism” and stayed in that bag. What a bag.....I taped it off the TV back in 1995 (I think it was) and about a year later I invited a bunch of friends over to watch it, and my girl at the time tapes a soap opera over it on that tape. We all got our “popcorn” ready, and here comes Days Of Our lives. Man I wasn’t happy. Pre internet days meant it wasn’t readily available lol
Old 1 week ago
  #449
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Thought I'd check up on this thread, and am in a restaurant. Barely an Instant later... "Instant Karma" comes on their speakers!
Chris
Old 1 week ago
  #450
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Hamburg58's Avatar
 

When I mixed with Steve Lillywhite for a couple of years we monitored loud. Id work on things quieter when it came to eq etc. But for balance we'd run a mix and listen loud and ride the faders, feel the mix. He didnt do in the box mixing. He had to be able to grab it and ride it and feel it.. It's hard to make in the box mixes feel that exciting sometimes, also ALWAYS rode the master down if we were doing a fade himself.
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