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I think it's time for me to buy a preamp
Old 19th May 2019
  #31
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chrischoir's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
Ok Robert you win, say goodbye to young Sheik Yerbouti
Old 19th May 2019
  #32
Gear Maniac
 
dwpthe3rd's Avatar
I think it's time for me to stop reading this thread

Old 19th May 2019
  #33
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trick fall's Avatar
 

If the OP is still listening I was on a very similar quest and was able to find what I was looking for with a Golden Age Premier 73 and a Klark Teknik KT-2A. FWIW, the compressor probably made a bigger difference, but moving from a more transparent pre to the GAP 73. Out of the choices you listed I'd probably go with the UA, but I'd definitely consider picking up one of the KT-2A's to go with it especially as they go for relatively small money. Anyway, good luck with your search.
Old 19th May 2019
  #34
Gear Addict
 

Crischoir,

Could you be a bit more shrill, I'm not sure I'm getting your points!

Steve
Old 19th May 2019
  #35
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The SSL Superanalogue preamp is actually very good. And with a Pultec type EQ or the SSL Bell and a dope compressor can be VERY FAT.

Portico is very colored with silk engaged.

It’s a buzzy coloring that is WAY WAY more pronounced than the girthy sheen of a Neve and the buttery punch of an API.

How do I know? Because I’ve been using all four of them side by side for years.

If you want fat you need wide bandwidth, Pultec beef and juicy compression.

Neve’s are FAT but they’re THICK/Dense, too.

A high bandwidth/headroom/fast preamp like a Forssell, Millenia, Buzz, Grace, DAV, SSL 9K, Gordon, GML etc preamp with a little bit of processing can get you to FAT. You need the bandwidth and headroom. In my view, a saturated, overdriven amp stage creates thick and a “sheen” of some kind, but not fat. Fat is another thing.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #36
Here for the gear
Mic Pre Suggestion

I know this thread is about a month old now ...

Reading through it, I don't think I saw a reference to this particular model pre, but if the OP is looking for a "fatter" sound via a dedicated mic pre ... then I would definitely have to suggest the Great River ME-1NV.

Those two knobs for separate input & output levels ... allowing for a "clean" or "colored" sound -- coupled with the sonic variations provided via the Loading and Impedance switches: Lots of options and versatility.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
I was just being thorough so there would be know mix up on my points.Apprantly I was not not articulate to the point that you could understand what I was trying to convey.


perhaps you should before you make ultimatums?

the only "nonsense" was when someone recommend a compressor on a mic pre thread.


As you are doing right now, ironically.

I was just being honest and giving some context to my rebuttal. Would you rather I told him I use GAP mic pres?? lol are you serious?


maybe you can present something of substance first?? then you will respected enough for people to take orders from you. Until then mind your beeswax.
Chris...you’re single handedly wrecking the thread again. Please reread what you’ve said and see if you can work out why your tone offends!

And please don’t try to tell others what to do - we don’t like that.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Chris...you’re single handedly wrecking the thread again. Please reread what you’ve said and see if you can work out why your tone offends!

And please don’t try to tell others what to do - we don’t like that.
I've begun "unparticipating" from and avoiding threads he posts to. I think being a **** is just his thing.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #39
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andychamp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by themiracle View Post
I've begun "unparticipating" from and avoiding threads he posts to. I think being a **** is just his thing.
The „ignore“ feature is your friend.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #40
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andychamp's Avatar
@ endiendi , it would be easier to advise and help you, if we knew what you are trying to achieve vs. what you are getting now.
A listening example might help. Perfect if it‘s a recording of your own voice, workable if it‘s an example of what you‘re going for.
Also, your two alternatives are confusingly un-similar in their character. Why those two?
Most of us have done the preamp dance in our time, so the most helpful answers probably won‘t be as simple as „use model X“.
Hope you find the patience to sort through the argumentative BS and look for real info.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #41
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I think Chris made some good points.

He was no more or less argumentative than anyone else posting here.

GOOD POINTS by all.

To go back on topic:

From my experience, the biggest change in my sound was going from prosumer level preamps to professional.

I was always chasing the thick sheen sound. I then realized even this can be a bit much.

It’s like cooking: using too much of any one spice, no matter how tasty, can overwhelm the dish.

This is why I start with big, wide bandwidth clean gain. To me, this is fat. I then color with ITB and outboard.

For vocals, lately, I use SSL Six preamps, with a touch of channel compression, a touch of high boost on the bell, a slight cut on the low bell, the high pass filter, a slight touch on the G-comp, an IGS Pultec and an Elysia Xfilter. Sounds amazing.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #42
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robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebigcomedown View Post
I think Chris made some good points.

He was no more or less argumentative than anyone else posting here.

GOOD POINTS by all.

To go back on topic:

From my experience, the biggest change in my sound was going from prosumer level preamps to professional.

I was always chasing the thick sheen sound. I then realized even this can be a bit much.

It’s like cooking: using too much of any one spice, no matter how tasty, can overwhelm the dish.

This is why I start with big, wide bandwidth clean gain. To me, this is fat. I then color with ITB and outboard.

For vocals, lately, I use SSL Six preamps, with a touch of channel compression, a touch of high boost on the bell, a slight cut on the low bell, the high pass filter, a slight touch on the G-comp, an IGS Pultec and an Elysia Xfilter. Sounds amazing.
Your cooking analogy is interesting . . . similar to an article (can't find it anymore online) by Allen Farmelo about "sonic varnish" - adding the sauce in thin layers, like varnishing wood, instead of trying to have one component do all the lifting. In the case of old style analog, think of how many transformers, op amps, etc a signal passes through, plus tape.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #43
Gear Nut
 

Maybe the DAV Broadhurst Gardens. Well under $1000.

https://www.kmraudio.com/dav-bg1-dua...el-mic-pre.php
Old 4 weeks ago
  #44
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yewtreemagic's Avatar
 

It used to be here (because I save a bookmark to it), but no longer it seems:

http://www.farmelorecording.com/in-t...sonic-varnish/


Martin

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
Your cooking analogy is interesting . . . similar to an article (can't find it anymore online) by Allen Farmelo about "sonic varnish" - adding the sauce in thin layers, like varnishing wood, instead of trying to have one component do all the lifting. In the case of old style analog, think of how many transformers, op amps, etc a signal passes through, plus tape.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #45
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by themiracle View Post
I've begun "unparticipating" from and avoiding threads he posts to. I think being a **** is just his thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andychamp View Post
The „ignore“ feature is your friend.

It's like getting your own customized version of the thread where that person does not exist.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #46
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post

It's like getting your own customized version of the thread where that person does not exist.
Until they reply to something your post, and someone else quotes it. Always thought that was a bit of a backward system, but oh well.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #47
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebigcomedown View Post
I think Chris made some good points.

He was no more or less argumentative than anyone else posting here.

GOOD POINTS by all.

To go back on topic:

From my experience, the biggest change in my sound was going from prosumer level preamps to professional.

I was always chasing the thick sheen sound. I then realized even this can be a bit much.

It’s like cooking: using too much of any one spice, no matter how tasty, can overwhelm the dish.

This is why I start with big, wide bandwidth clean gain. To me, this is fat. I then color with ITB and outboard.

For vocals, lately, I use SSL Six preamps, with a touch of channel compression, a touch of high boost on the bell, a slight cut on the low bell, the high pass filter, a slight touch on the G-comp, an IGS Pultec and an Elysia Xfilter. Sounds amazing.
Excellent point here ... and to that end, the High Speed Preamp Card that Jim Williams [Audio Upgrades] put into the gray-front Symetrix 528 [that he also modded] is probably one of the cleanest I've ever dealt with. So, I guess I am extremely lucky -- since I have both ultra-clean [JW-modded 528] and "colorable" [ME-1NV] covered.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #48
Deleted 063dc0d
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
Your cooking analogy is interesting . . . similar to an article (can't find it anymore online) by Allen Farmelo about "sonic varnish" - adding the sauce in thin layers, like varnishing wood, instead of trying to have one component do all the lifting. In the case of old style analog, think of how many transformers, op amps, etc a signal passes through, plus tape.
You’re a smart guy. So thank you for that.

Some of the old pros that used to frequent this site more often always said to approach things this way.

But the big change for me was the SSL Xrack and what “wide bandwidth” actually sounded like. Then I realized what all the tube, transformer and opamp “colors” were actually doing and why and when. But even then I was looking for something in all the wrong ways.

It wasn’t until I had a dozen or so circuits side by side running through an X-rack that I began to understand the “spice” thing. That I began to grasp the concept behind using these distortions or lack thereof to build a mix with contrast. And then how much to use on a 2-bus, if at all.

I started turning the gain knob down a lot ore and using the output knob more.


I began planning what sound would get what color.

But then I realized, why even commit? Why not just record a big clean sound and then color, if at all.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #49
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yewtreemagic's Avatar
 

I finally tracked down an archive of Allen Farmelo's 'Sonic Varnish' article for anyone who's still interested:

http://web.archive.org/web/201804250...sonic-varnish/

His premise that 'Harmonic Distortion is Sonic Varnish' is indeed a wonderful one!


Martin

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
Your cooking analogy is interesting . . . similar to an article (can't find it anymore online) by Allen Farmelo about "sonic varnish" - adding the sauce in thin layers, like varnishing wood, instead of trying to have one component do all the lifting. In the case of old style analog, think of how many transformers, op amps, etc a signal passes through, plus tape.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #50
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nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post

Pretty much the worst thing you can say about a mic pre is that sounds like an SSL. The whole reason outboard mic pres became so popular in the late 80s ad 90s was because the SSL desks sounded so bad. Neve portico sounds nothing like an SSL.
The Whole reason? I say no, because people wanted DIFFERENT pres regardless of the Console...
OR, they had no room, need OR $$$$ for a full API console, just wanted a few pres & Eq's ect...
I've seen API's in a Room with a 80 series Neve...YEARS ago..
Hardy in a 80B room, ect...
Ect ect...
Plus I was there building/racking mic pres in the 80's, still remember the response from most engineers; "Check out a mic pre? Why? The console has mic pres..."
Then after; "Big difference"..

Last edited by nosebleedaudio; 4 weeks ago at 01:56 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #51
Lives for gear
 

Same story here as Michael Keith relates.

80B based studio, had an outboard GML, I built a couple channels of TransAmp channels, then on to build the original whiteface Great River, although GR was still 10 years in the future.

In the mid-80's outboard preamps were fairly uncommon, usually everybody used the stock board preamps. The exceptions were what started Great River, like the voice over room that wanted quieter than Neotek preamps for their SM-5's.

Or the explosion of Tascam based rooms once the 1/2" and 1" higher track count tape machines became affordable.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #52
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ChaosCreation's Avatar
 

I found the Ma5 500 series preamp really fattened up my tones and gave me more confidence with vocals, love the boost on it, You do need a high quality AD. DA converter either Apollo twin or apogee, Apollo twin does have some great plugins the mic pres on those are very sterile but conversion great Apollo Neve preamp plugin is very good but overall I was. blown away. by avedis ma5 and always go back to that
Old 4 weeks ago
  #53
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosCreation View Post
I found the Ma5 500 series preamp really fattened up my tones and gave me more confidence with vocals, love the boost on it, You do need a high quality AD. DA converter either Apollo twin or apogee, Apollo twin does have some great plugins the mic pres on those are very sterile but conversion great Apollo Neve preamp plugin is very good but overall I was. blown away. by avedis ma5 and always go back to that
Agree 100%
Old 4 weeks ago
  #54
the RND portico is nothing at all like SSL, or trident for that matter which is a very coloured sound in my opinion, I'd say it's like a higher fidelity slighly less vintage 1073 preamp but with a similar neve character, has a very very smooth top end and amazing amount of detail, probably the best choice within your budget.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #55
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by yewtreemagic View Post
I finally tracked down an archive of Allen Farmelo's 'Sonic Varnish' article for anyone who's still interested:

http://web.archive.org/web/201804250...sonic-varnish/

His premise that 'Harmonic Distortion is Sonic Varnish' is indeed a wonderful one!


Martin
Lovely article. Thanks for tracking it down and sharing!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #56
Deleted 063dc0d
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by yewtreemagic View Post
I finally tracked down an archive of Allen Farmelo's 'Sonic Varnish' article for anyone who's still interested:

http://web.archive.org/web/201804250...sonic-varnish/

His premise that 'Harmonic Distortion is Sonic Varnish' is indeed a wonderful one!


Martin
This article nails it
Old 3 weeks ago
  #57
Deleted 063dc0d
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by pencilextremist View Post
the RND portico is nothing at all like SSL, or trident for that matter which is a very coloured sound in my opinion, I'd say it's like a higher fidelity slighly less vintage 1073 preamp but with a similar neve character, has a very very smooth top end and amazing amount of detail, probably the best choice within your budget.
The Portico doesn’t sound like a 1073.

The Silk button doesn’t do anything like what a saturated 1073 does.

The silk adds a very noticeable distortion in the upper frequencies.

The SSL shares a lot with the Portico when it isn’t saturating.

But it is more hifi sounding, smoother in the top end. I would say the SiX is more detailed in the mids in a way. And the Portico has more air.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #58
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Crazy4Jazz's Avatar
 

Hope the OP got a preamp by now and is happily recording big fat warm vocals.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #59
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Oldone's Avatar
Let's get off the Portico vs SSL comparison. I brought it up but still stand by that comment. Some agree, some don't. So be it. When I shot them out side by side with about 10 others in 500 series format they seemed in the same zone in the standard setting. This was the 511 vs SSL however. I have noticed my 5012 sounds a bit different from the 511, maybe because it's one of the original units.

I will tell the original poster however, preamps are like cars. You have to test drive them.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #60
Here for the gear
Preamps Are Like ... ;~)

I wish the OP well. As everyone who has chimed in [myself included] has pointed out -- there are so many choices out there & that number is going to continue to grow. We haven't even gotten into what can happen to an audio signal once it gets uploaded for streaming -- or broadcasting. Nor have we discussed the subject of good monitoring.

Our video counterparts have it so easy by comparison, for they have "white balance, colors bars and vectorscopes" to use as reference points. We just have our ears.
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