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SSL SiX small format mixer???
Old 15th June 2019
  #1021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by once a roadie View Post
Just wondering if anyone else here has an xdesk and is looking to add the SiX. Comments welcome.
I have X-Desk and use it every day.
I want to add SIX if it sounds better.
Is it truth?
I dont need Bus Compressor in Six just better mix.
Old 15th June 2019
  #1022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted be25781 View Post
For God's sake let it rest, it's just an opinion on a stupid board. We're all dead in 50 years. Have a beer.
Hahaha. For sure! I'm ordering that beer right now. Good advice.
Old 15th June 2019
  #1023
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goshalev View Post
I have X-Desk and use it every day.
I want to add SIX if it sounds better.
Is it truth?
I dont need Bus Compressor in Six just better mix.
Why would it sound better?
Old 16th June 2019
  #1024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted be25781 View Post
Guess again.
Ehhh I think I probably got it right. You should thank me for all the streams you got out of that, but I understand wanting to stay incognito on GS.

I vehemently disagree that any piece of SSL gear is a toy, but yeah the SiX isn’t for me either. If they come out with TwelvE or a SixteeeN or TwentyfouR I could find a use for that. Truth is there are more than enough used large format SSL’s on the market to satisfy current demand, so why make another large format SSL? They don’t make sense for most people these days due to economics and workflow. The SiX filled a key need by providing SSL sound to a ton of people who are only recording 1-2 tracks a time. Brilliant piece of gear.

But I’ll take the advice from your other post and have a beer.
Old 16th June 2019
  #1025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrentA View Post
Ehhh I think I probably got it right. You should thank me for all the streams you got out of that, but I understand wanting to stay incognito on GS.

I vehemently disagree that any piece of SSL gear is a toy, but yeah the SiX isn’t for me either. If they come out with TwelvE or a SixteeeN or TwentyfouR I could find a use for that. Truth is there are more than enough used large format SSL’s on the market to satisfy current demand, so why make another large format SSL? They don’t make sense for most people these days due to economics and workflow. The SiX filled a key need by providing SSL sound to a ton of people who are only recording 1-2 tracks a time. Brilliant piece of gear.

But I’ll take the advice from your other post and have a beer.
Exactly. Perfect for people tracking a few things at a time and who need some good summing and monitor control.
Old 16th June 2019
  #1026
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
Why would it sound better?
maybe because SIX uses better components.
Op amps in X Desk are not the best
Old 16th June 2019
  #1027
Deleted be25781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrentA View Post
Ehhh I think I probably got it right. You should thank me for all the streams you got out of that, but I understand wanting to stay incognito on GS.

I vehemently disagree that any piece of SSL gear is a toy, but yeah the SiX isn’t for me either. If they come out with TwelvE or a SixteeeN or TwentyfouR I could find a use for that. Truth is there are more than enough used large format SSL’s on the market to satisfy current demand, so why make another large format SSL? They don’t make sense for most people these days due to economics and workflow. The SiX filled a key need by providing SSL sound to a ton of people who are only recording 1-2 tracks a time. Brilliant piece of gear.

But I’ll take the advice from your other post and have a beer.
Not me man, Darius is an old Persian name and used a lot, this guy is from France I'm from Belgium. Way off.

By the way I only have a 16 channel 4k, paid half on loan. So I'm not that much of a snob. You really think I can afford a big boy toy? I embroider shirts for a living, pay rent and don't even have a car. All my money goes to music gear, that's not being a snob saying a 4k is better than a SiX, that's saying I know what tool I want, and it's dedication. That's saying f*ck me those records in the past that I love are so punchy because of just running through the 4k. It's a sound that I'm after, not because it's elite.

Yes I'm a tool, a tool for reaching back to a lost aesthetic that I think is still valid in this day and age. Even if it's archaic, and sucks power like no other. I'm willing to pay for that.



Listen the SiX is cool, my reaction came from the fact that some people say the SiX eliminates the need for a bigger console. It's home recording vs professional mixing. In my book professional mixing is with a console. I'm not disrespecting the all ITB guys or people who love the SiX, tons of great mixes have been done ITB and in way many other ways. I'm just fond of old machinery, whether it's better or not, you decide. I want to work in a spaceship and not sit at a desk, that's what I do from monday to friday already. I started mixing ITB, and I just hate it, Pro Tools is a recording medium now.

Heck Loser by Beck was done on an old Mackie and a Fostex tape machine, go figure.

Last edited by Deleted be25781; 17th June 2019 at 10:36 AM..
Old 16th June 2019
  #1028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goshalev View Post
maybe because SIX uses better components.
Op amps in X Desk are not the best
Why would you think it uses better components?

Never mind. I'll take that X desk with the not the best Op amps and buy you a six. Lol.
Old 16th June 2019
  #1029
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius1 View Post

Listen the SiX is cool, my reaction came from the fact that some people say the SiX eliminates the need for a bigger console. It's home recording vs professional mixing. In my book professional mixing is with a console. I'm not disrespecting the all ITB guys or people who love the SiX, tons of great mixes have been done ITB and in way many other ways. I'm just fond of old machinery, whether it's better or not, you decide. I want to work in a spaceship and not sit at a desk, that's what I do from monday to friday already. I started mixing ITB, and I just hate it, Pro Tools is a recording medium now.

Heck Loser by Beck was done on an old Mackie and a Fostex tape machine, go figure.

A mix I did:
I don't think Six could eliminate the need for a bigger desk. It's a true space saver with good sound quality and that is all. I also think that Six may be the best way to let ITB newbees to have a taste of fine console sound on a budget, which may lure them into the bigger/better console shrine
Old 16th June 2019
  #1030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goshalev View Post
maybe because SIX uses better components.
Op amps in X Desk are not the best
Sorry but you are mistaken.
Old 16th June 2019
  #1031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius1 View Post





Listen the SiX is cool, my reaction came from the fact that some people say the SiX eliminates the need for a bigger console. It's home recording vs professional mixing. In my book professional mixing is with a console. I'm not disrespecting the all ITB guys or people who love the SiX, tons of great mixes have been done ITB and in way many other ways. I'm just fond of old machinery, whether it's better or not, you decide. I want to work in a spaceship and not sit at a desk, that's what I do from monday to friday already. I started mixing ITB, and I just hate it, Pro Tools is a recording medium now.

:
Funny thing is most pros are mixing in the box these days. It’s perfectly fine to prefer the sound of a big console but to say professional mixing requires a console is simply inaccurate now.
Old 16th June 2019
  #1032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David W. Jones View Post
Sorry but you are mistaken.
Big SSL consoles use NE5534 Op Amp.
X-Desk uses NE5532.
What SIX uses?
Tell me please
Old 16th June 2019
  #1033
Deleted be25781
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrentA View Post
Funny thing is most pros are mixing in the box these days. It’s perfectly fine to prefer the sound of a big console but to say professional mixing requires a console is simply inaccurate now.
I grew up hearing mixes by Bob Clearmountain and CLA, those are my heroes. These are the professionals I look up to.

Some guys love Dave Pensado, or Tony Maserati. They are ITB now and they make excellent mixes, these guys are also professionals.

Gotta say for rock, you can't beat a full-blown 4K for hit you in the face attitude. I would actually mix classical music ITB.
Old 17th June 2019
  #1034
Lud
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I've hooked up everything and it's working wonderfully except the alt inputs. The inserts in and out works great but nothing comes in the alt. There's no reasons the cables would be faulty. Someone could enlighten me?
Old 17th June 2019
  #1035
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Check the ALT switch is selected in the superanalog channels next to the ST CUE 1 controls. This replaces the channel signal to the stereo cue 1 bus with the ALT input. Then check that the ST CUE 1 switch is pressed in the MAIN section. This sums the stereo cue send with the main bus.
Old 17th June 2019
  #1036
Deleted 063dc0d
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The SiX is a SSL mini console.

Are 500 series pieces not part of each manufacturer’s legacy? Of course they are.

It’s every bit an SSL as the API 212L is an API. Will two API 212L sound like a Legacy Console? They should, overall, because API has a sound from the 2520. The Legacy will have a different sound in nuances and subtleties because it’s a different piece. But the 212L is a gorgeous sounding circuit. Just look at their Tranzformers.

I remember people getting worked up about 500 series here, too. Like they weren’t genuine or something.

Be calm and carry on folks. Trust your ears.

My SiX sounds every bit as good as any SSL piece that I’ve owned. That includes my Xrack, greyface 19” rack pieces (383, 384) and Duende.

I don’t need an 80 channel console of these circuits.

Many people use a single multi-channel converter to record and mix ITB. If this works, than a miniaturized SSL console can work.

There is nothing wrong with the SiX. It’s a great board.

Clean monitoring, some great tracking channels and 12 channels for mix downs that I can pipe through some analog G-Comp glue before hitting the AD mix down converter. It’s pretty sweet. My mixes are way louder as a result. Love it.
Old 17th June 2019
  #1037
Lud
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonyfeld View Post
Check the ALT switch is selected in the superanalog channels next to the ST CUE 1 controls. This replaces the channel signal to the stereo cue 1 bus with the ALT input. Then check that the ST CUE 1 switch is pressed in the MAIN section. This sums the stereo cue send with the main bus.
Alt are pressed so is the st cue 1 in the main section, but nothing appears. Weird. Thanks for helping.
Edit: Thats fine, i was always pressing only the alt. alt + on. thanks a lot.
Old 17th June 2019
  #1038
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted be25781 View Post
Not me man, Darius is an old Persian name and used a lot, this guy is from France I'm from Belgium. Way off.

By the way I only have a 16 channel 4k, paid half on loan. So I'm not that much of a snob. You really think I can afford a big boy toy? I embroider shirts for a living, pay rent and don't even have a car. All my money goes to music gear, that's not being a snob saying a 4k is better than a SiX, that's saying I know what tool I want, and it's dedication. That's saying f*ck me those records in the past that I love are so punchy because of just running through the 4k. It's a sound that I'm after, not because it's elite.

Yes I'm a tool, a tool for reaching back to a lost aesthetic that I think is still valid in this day and age. Even if it's archaic, and sucks power like no other. I'm willing to pay for that.



Listen the SiX is cool, my reaction came from the fact that some people say the SiX eliminates the need for a bigger console. It's home recording vs professional mixing. In my book professional mixing is with a console. I'm not disrespecting the all ITB guys or people who love the SiX, tons of great mixes have been done ITB and in way many other ways. I'm just fond of old machinery, whether it's better or not, you decide. I want to work in a spaceship and not sit at a desk, that's what I do from monday to friday already. I started mixing ITB, and I just hate it, Pro Tools is a recording medium now.

Heck Loser by Beck was done on an old Mackie and a Fostex tape machine, go figure.
Ok, I had my beer, it was delicious. So now back to the topic at hand.

The reactions on either end of the extremes:

The SiX is the greatest console ever and you can sell your large format recording desks immediately!

OR

The SiX is a toy, a piece of junk and you can only make serious recordings on a "real" desk.

These are both just silly and don't really add anything useful to the overall discussion.

Musicianship, ears, taste, and engineering know how are what produce great recordings. There are many ways to get there and even more ways to get lost along the way. Gear is surely the easiest and most expensive way to avoid the deficiencies in one's productions. It's so easier to blame the equipment than to recognize a song needs more work or a mix needs more work...

Those who mix on big desks, more power to ya - you already know just how much extra you pay the power company for the privilege. It's an awesome experience that everyone should have at least once.

Those who just don't have the means or desire to go that route, well, 2019 is a glorious time to be alive and making music. Gear has never been better or more affordable. The masses can now participate in real record production and that's a good thing.

I just can't take the snobbery. Get over yourself, with all due respect.
Old 17th June 2019
  #1039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted be25781 View Post
I love SSL, I always did.

But I wish they just kept it high end consoles only. I don't see Neve making surface-mount prosumer stuff. Seems like this would be more of a cloning project for Warm audio or something.

SSL was awesome till the 9K I think. Ah well..
I think it’s an incredibly bold and forward looking move based on reality...these things are likely selling like hot cakes...(gross) numbers may be like them selling a 9K console every day which I’m sure they don’t.

It does not ‘cheap’ up the brand, there are step ups in product line...

Disclosure: I’m a former 4000 owner
Old 17th June 2019
  #1040
Gear Guru
Personally I think that people might be better served saying where they're coming from when making sweeping statements. Obviously a working pro is going to have a different view than a bedroom guy or hobbyist. Also VO guys have different needs than music, just like broadcast, feature film, etc. GS doesn't make the distinction other than high/low end. Qualifying a statement may help so people know what level you're on.......and what you do.

The plug in and equipment "faves" threads are filled with peoples likes/dislikes without any info on use/genre. I would assume a hip hop guy would be looking for much different gear than a classical mixer, not to mention "head banger" music!.....
Old 17th June 2019
  #1041
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
Personally I think that people might be better served saying where they're coming from when making sweeping statements. Obviously a working pro is going to have a different view than a bedroom guy or hobbyist. Also VO guys have different needs than music, just like broadcast, feature film, etc. GS doesn't make the distinction other than high/low end. Qualifying a statement may help so people know what level you're on.......and what you do.

The plug in and equipment "faves" threads are filled with peoples likes/dislikes without any info on use/genre. I would assume a hip hop guy would be looking for much different gear than a classical mixer, not to mention "head banger" music!.....
Actually when it comes to recording and mixing the gear is all the same. VO, I imagine would function well with a few mics or one great all rounder and a couple outboard or one great all around channel strip or pre(at the bare minimum); that could easily be a minimalist setup of any genre tracking vocals or one instrument at a time. The only time I see differences in genre is in the instruments to perform music in said genre as far or if one needs to track full bands/ensembles at once. Generally no gear is genre specific.

Versatile stereo pre/EQ/comp can handle about 90% of what's needed to record/mix/master music at a basic level.

I don't agree with Darius1,(especially concerning the SiX) but I think he was voicing some frustration with the "state of affairs" of music industry how professionals are pushing the medium. This isn't the 80s, 90s or 2000s there's just not the budget there used to be so some moved from consoles or major analog setups to ITB completely and in some ways it's disheartening because you get the sense if they could afford to maybe they wouldn't IMO. No one wants to address the why alot of mixing pros are ITB today(I primarily mix and master 100% outside of reverb/special effects) the economics might have a role I'd wager. I live less than a couple hours from L.A. in the past decade alone so many commercial facilities have shut down it's hard to keep count, nationwide and worldwide the same trend. I'm not too disheartened by people recording at home though I think the level of tools available today make it just as viable as any era if the right tools are used. The SiX is great and instantly gives a home recording situation some professional rapport given it's capability but to maximize it and anything else other "pro" grade gear is needed in the chain at every step.

Plugins are cool I'm not gonna flame ITB but IMO it's not a replacement for great analog; there's strengths/weaknesses to both. I just spent $500 this weekend(great sales) on plugs among some noteworthy Eastwest Spaces II, Eventide T-Verb & iZotope Neutron 3, there's just things only plugs can do or do alot more expediently/efficiently. Workflow speed n recall yes ITB hands down but that's why I've bought 5 plugin controlled hardware units from Bettermaker/Wes Audio/SSL(Sigma), my goal is to have 85% or more of studio set up this way to reap the benefits of both the sound of hardware and speed/flexibility/accessibility of plugins. I use plugs(wouldn't say I got em all but I got a ton) when mobile for rough mixes, lesser charged ITB mixes, or special stuff and of course limiters. My preference leans to my hardware mixes, I just believe they sound better music is auditory so that's where I reside.

The great thing today is that a console isn't needed to get a great "console like" sound; good outboard processing, summing, saturators & 2 bus processing in the analog domain can get u there fully or to varying degrees. Do u still need a console? Sure if u require hands on dynamics/tone control of every individual channel, some do. If I could afford a console I wouldn't buy one as I've said before I'd probably go SSL XL-Desk or Matrix.

As far as the music biz, no the sky isn't falling but things have changed alot in 10-15 yrs being aware of that is key it's just like any other industry. There's a lot of pros still using great hardware at all levels maybe less consoles sold but with units like the SiX now available is that a bad thing ...

Last edited by ucanhatemenow; 18th June 2019 at 12:27 AM..
Old 18th June 2019
  #1042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carllock View Post
I think it’s an incredibly bold and forward looking move based on reality...these things are likely selling like hot cakes...(gross) numbers may be like them selling a 9K console every day which I’m sure they don’t.

It does not ‘cheap’ up the brand, there are step ups in product line...

Disclosure: I’m a former 4000 owner
I'm hoping it means they have to follow with something bigger. Something like a stripped down xl desk with 4 mix busses, without the 500slots. I don't need EQ/pres from them, just routing, direct outs on each channel, some auxes, and a center section.
Old 18th June 2019
  #1043
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
I'm hoping it means they have to follow with something bigger. Something like a stripped down xl desk with 4 mix busses, without the 500slots. I don't need EQ/pres from them, just routing, direct outs on each channel, some auxes, and a center section.
Sounds like 2 Sigmas or 2 X-Desks. I'm gonna buy the SiX as a sidecar to my Sigma with the added benefit of a stereo mic pre among other things.
Old 18th June 2019
  #1044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ucanhatemenow View Post
Sounds like 2 Sigmas or 2 X-Desks. I'm gonna buy the SiX as a sidecar to my Sigma with the added benefit of a stereo mic pre among other things.
A Sigma expander, without automation as a sidecar to a regular sigma would be cool.

I still contemplate trying out a Sigma sometimes.
I could expand it via Folcrom, and still have automation post compressor on some things.
Throw in a few choice color pieces, and it could be cool.

Most things I want are tracking related. I think mix wise itb is cool, but I still like some analog in my 2bus.

I waited a while to comment further until I had a chance to see a six up close. I don't see it as a "mini SSl console, or a toy. I think neither extreme is accurate.

The most accurate assessment I can make for young guys considering it is to try it, and it probably won't satisfy you. But, it's not because the product is bad, it's because nothing will satisfy you when you get bit by this music and gear bug. It's a never ending quest for new colors,new sounds, and new tones, by people who fall in love with the quest.

Most of my favorite mixers are going itb, but they still have their outboard colors if they need them. It's hard for an artist to give up his paints, and why should he? They'll always be there if he needs them. It's kinda like buying 1084s instead of 1073 pre, without the EQ, you may never use the EQ when you track, but it's there if you need it.

Lately, I'm seeking odd/obscure distortion and cool color pieces to run in parallel to the typical stuff.
Old 18th June 2019
  #1045
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
A Sigma expander, without automation as a sidecar to a regular sigma would be cool.

I still contemplate trying out a Sigma sometimes.
I could expand it via Folcrom, and still have automation post compressor on some things.
Throw in a few choice color pieces, and it could be cool.

Most things I want are tracking related. I think mix wise itb is cool, but I still like some analog in my 2bus.

I waited a while to comment further until I had a chance to see a six up close. I don't see it as a "mini SSl console, or a toy. I think neither extreme is accurate.

The most accurate assessment I can make for young guys considering it is to try it, and it probably won't satisfy you. But, it's not because the product is bad, it's because nothing will satisfy you when you get bit by this music and gear bug. It's a never ending quest for new colors,new sounds, and new tones, by people who fall in love with the quest.

Most of my favorite mixers are going itb, but they still have their outboard colors if they need them. It's hard for an artist to give up his paints, and why should he? They'll always be there if he needs them. It's kinda like buying 1084s instead of 1073 pre, without the EQ, you may never use the EQ when you track, but it's there if you need it.

Lately, I'm seeking odd/obscure distortion and cool color pieces to run in parallel to the typical stuff.
Going Sigma is really about automation IMO, so I'd prefer if they made a sidecar for that they kept that and shelved the individual channel outs maybe a joint 2RU 2 busses(w/ inserts) 8 stereo channels OR 1RU 4 stereo channels with master bus insert.

If I were to go a different direction summing wise it'd be the Burl Vancouver 32 it's priced well and got some color "mojo". I also love the LTL Silver Bullet just for it's pres, routing & EQ; I wouldn't mind stacking 2 Folcroms and running em into the Silver Bullet + a Bus Comp.

For out the box color I got 2 RND 542s(wanted Silver Bullet + 2 × Sound Skulptor TS500) I like it but wouldn't mind an Elysia Karacter also. Really I want the Radial Space Heater 500(× 2) but I see Karacter 500s used at the price of 1 Radial. There also isn't much press on the Radial or discussions about it here on GS either.
Old 18th June 2019
  #1046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ucanhatemenow View Post
Going Sigma is really about automation IMO, so I'd prefer if they made a sidecar for that they kept that and shelved the individual channel outs maybe a joint 2RU 2 busses(w/ inserts) 8 stereo channels OR 1RU 4 stereo channels with master bus insert.

If I were to go a different direction summing wise it'd be the Burl Vancouver 32 it's priced well and got some color "mojo". I also love the LTL Silver Bullet just for it's pres, routing & EQ; I wouldn't mind stacking 2 Folcroms and running em into the Silver Bullet + a Bus Comp.

For out the box color I got 2 RND 542s(wanted Silver Bullet + 2 × Sound Skulptor TS500) I like it but wouldn't mind an Elysia Karacter also. Really I want the Radial Space Heater 500(× 2) but I see Karacter 500s used at the price of 1 Radial. There also isn't much press on the Radial or discussions about it here on GS either.
You don't use the Sigma for sound and more for automation? How many channels of post compression automation do you need? I'd want the individual outs for printing back to protools for recall, why would you get rid of them?
Old 18th June 2019
  #1047
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
You don't use the Sigma for sound and more for automation? How many channels of post compression automation do you need? I'd want the individual outs for printing back to protools for recall, why would you get rid of them?
I do, but if were talking expansion unit I could bypass the individual outs. I've got a SSL X-Patch(2 actually one not in use but bought it anyway) & Dangerous Liaison in my setup; currently I use one stereo channel as my "Golden" channel i/o to my Liaison/X-Patch analog processing loop.

The only other good use I get from the individual outs are that they help me create to other busses; 1 stereo channel out for vocal buss and I sum my drum bus also thru a Mixdream XP into a stereo channel in then send/return to a Xpressor 500. I don't use the rest of the individual channel outs(I assign the other channels to Mix A or B) because Mix A & Mix B busses both have insert sends. I waste some ins I guess but it's my way of creating more busses on the Sigma.

The SiX has 2 busses(maybe three gotta read the manual) so once patched into my setup I got I could get rid of the Mixdream XP and get a larger summing channel count also; I plan on buying the Antelope Orion 32+ Gen 3. Right now I've got 22 DAC outs for summing setup on my Sigma as 4 mono channels & 9 stereo channels(the Sigma gives u 16 mono or stereo channels fixed) with the new Orion I could spread those 32 channels better across the Sigma/SiX.

I left out the Heritage MCM-8 MK II to not complicate things too much but basically Mix A, B, Mixdream XP outs, vocals out get summed there and brought back into the Sigma.

It's crazy, but it works, the Heritage has great headroom also and a light "Neve" color. The way I've got it patched in I can control the summed groups faders and some individual channels faders right on the Sigma really pushing the MDACs into their sweet spot.

For recall, I'll just leave pans/fades ITB and take pics for everything not directly routed into the Sigma first like I already do with the Mixdream XP/Vocals(before summed).
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1048
Lud
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I love my six!!!!! So comfortable to mix out of the box!
Only one tiny thing, the mix out of the six is not the same as once passed through the ufx, of course. It sounds slighty (but clearly) better before conversion, more rock and warm and magic.

Happy customer here!
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SSL SiX small format mixer???-20190617_102639.jpg   SSL SiX small format mixer???-20190618_145149.jpg  
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1049
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The first mixing desk that understands me.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1050
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So far, there hasn't been a single routing setup I haven't been able to accomplish with the SiX. I'm still in the return window but I'm definitely keeping it. Might even get another one or two.
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