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2 figure of 8's/ two singers and a guitar amp ? Ribbon Microphones
Old 1 week ago
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

2 figure of 8's/ two singers and a guitar amp ?

Hi i want to record 2 singers one who plays the electric guitar.
My idea is to use 2 figure of 8's .
One would be used with vocals singing into each side.
The guitar amp would be at right angles to the singers with the second figure of 8 pointing at the amp (the null pointing at the singers.
Both mics as close together to avoid phase issues
Is this do-able ?
Or is there something i'm missing here
Many thanks
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Seems it would make the amp-mic to amp distance a bit far. Presumably you still have the room reflections not in the 'nulls
You might do about as well with cardioid on the amp? Just winging it here.. Why not.
Old 1 week ago
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

The amp will be really quite low ..its like a fender champ .
Low enough for in the room balance no headphones.
So that should be okay .
Just wondered if there are any phase/ polarity issues with this set up ?
Old 1 week ago
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmoore View Post
..Both mics as close together to avoid phase issues ..
Again just to be clear, both mics up together and near the vocals?
I don't see phase problems, just question the mic placements.
Seems you'll have one track 'dry mono vocal blend' and one 'vocals+guitar 'room track'.
Old 1 week ago
  #5
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Sigma's Avatar
With both singers on one mic their balance has to be correct in the performance..when Eddie and Walt from the ojays sang, I put 2 cardiods up and had the guys face one another about 6 feet away from each other
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Gear Addict
 
useme2305's Avatar
 

watch some of john cuniberti's one mic videos and let those inspire you.
he does exactly that. two fig8 (acutally one R88 mic that is basically two fig8 mics in blumlein) and a whole band.
he also made a making of of a session or two if i remember correctly.
Old 1 week ago
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

Im aware of John Cuniberti but he uses Blumlein method with a stereo mic
A little different to what i was thinking.
Now thinking of using mid side and position accordingly!
Old 1 week ago
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
Again just to be clear, both mics up together and near the vocals?
I don't see phase problems, just question the mic placements.
Seems you'll have one track 'dry mono vocal blend' and one 'vocals+guitar 'room track'.
Yes i think your'e right though you can get remarkable separation using the nulls
Old 1 week ago
  #9
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Sigma's Avatar
So i guess they get a compromise eq?
Old 1 week ago
  #10
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
I'd me more worried about the amp sound getting into the vocal the other way around. The vocal mic null pointed at the amp is a good idea for sure. A cardioid or figure 8 on the amp will work, especially if its on the floor.
Old 1 week ago
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmoore View Post
Yes i think your'e right though you can get remarkable separation using the nulls
But I'm still curious. You do see -unless you are in an extremely dead room that the 'amp mic's lobs would be seeing' -a rather distant amp down low in the room, and the rear' lobe the mix in the room coming off the walls/ceiling. -The ceiling -assuming they're standing potentially about as far from the mic as the amp is?
Trying to understand if I'm misunderstanding part of it. Thanks
Old 1 week ago
  #12
Gear Addict
 
Blaine Misner's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
But I'm still curious. You do see -unless you are in an extremely dead room that the 'amp mic's lobs would be seeing' -a rather distant amp down low in the room, and the rear' lobe the mix in the room coming off the walls/ceiling. -The ceiling -assuming they're standing potentially about as far from the mic as the amp is?
Trying to understand if I'm misunderstanding part of it. Thanks
it won't matter as the direct sound of the amp will be so much louder than the room sound. if it becomes a problem a gobo behind the guitar mic will fix it easily (Couple feet, not couple inches)
Old 1 week ago
  #13
Gear Addict
 
Blaine Misner's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
With both singers on one mic their balance has to be correct in the performance..when Eddie and Walt from the ojays sang, I put 2 cardiods up and had the guys face one another about 6 feet away from each other

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
So i guess they get a compromise eq?
sometimes the wheel has to be reinvented, regardless of what everyone else has experienced.

Last edited by Blaine Misner; 1 week ago at 08:44 PM.. Reason: grammar
Old 1 week ago
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaine Misner View Post
it won't matter as the direct sound of the amp will be so much louder than the room sound. if it becomes a problem a gobo behind the guitar mic will fix it easily (Couple feet, not couple inches)
Read again. It's not on the amp, it's up with the vocal mic position.
Old 1 week ago
  #15
Gear Addict
 
Blaine Misner's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
Read again. It's not on the amp, it's up with the vocal mic position.
You are right, i was mistaken. i love blumlein. when done correctly it is a thing of pure beauty, however i do not think you will glean anything from the mics being a purely coincident pair...

What i do think would possibly work "better" would be to start in the blumlein configuration and then lower the second mic until it is on axis with the guitar amp, keeping the horizontal plane with the vocal mic. the nulls will still null, but you wont be getting such a "roomy," distant guitar sound. you could even get a small gobo a few feet out to block the rear of the guitar mic.


again, my choice would be to do what Sigma has suggested or to place the fig8 mic on the guitar in its own position, one that sounds the "best" for the instrument itself

Last edited by Blaine Misner; 1 week ago at 11:15 PM.. Reason: punctuation
Old 1 week ago
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

And the result was ...
Put the Amp in the hallway miced with an sm57.
Yes it was too loud !
Vocals in the room Km86 (chosen over the u87 ) in cardiode
except for the songs with harmonies switched to figure of 8.
Headphones.
Thanks for your suggestions !
Old 6 days ago
  #17
Gear Addict
 
Blaine Misner's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmoore View Post
And the result was ...
Put the Amp in the hallway miced with an sm57.
Yes it was too loud !
Vocals in the room Km86 (chosen over the u87 ) in cardiode
except for the songs with harmonies switched to figure of 8.
Headphones.
Thanks for your suggestions !
The beauty of flexibility! cheers
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