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Andrew Scheps "Rear bus" Technique
Old 23rd January 2019
  #1
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Andrew Scheps "Rear bus" Technique

Hey guys--

Has anyone ever used the "Rear bus" technique? It's my understanding that Andrew Scheps sends everything in his mix but the drums to a parallel Bus with an 1176LN INSERTED, then he sums it to the whole mix and that's essentially what the "rear Bus" technique is in a nutshell...


I'm wondering if it also makes sense to send individual parallel compression and effects sends also to the "Rear bus" channel to get the most out of the effect?

Any insight here would be appreciated!
Old 30th April 2019
  #2
Old 1st May 2019
  #3
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XAXAU's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3KMUSIC View Post
Hey guys--

Has anyone ever used the "Rear bus" technique? It's my understanding that Andrew Scheps sends everything in his mix but the drums to a parallel Bus with an 1176LN INSERTED, then he sums it to the whole mix and that's essentially what the "rear Bus" technique is in a nutshell...


I'm wondering if it also makes sense to send individual parallel compression and effects sends also to the "Rear bus" channel to get the most out of the effect?

Any insight here would be appreciated!
Done it for 15 years. You can absolutely send individual tracks to the smash comp!
Old 26th May 2019
  #4
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For what I've read and seen, he sends everything but the drums. He does this so that the vocals can be the loudest thing hitting the comp, not the snare or kick ect. Then he blends them to taste.
Old 26th May 2019
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3KMUSIC View Post
Hey guys--

Has anyone ever used the "Rear bus" technique? It's my understanding that Andrew Scheps sends everything in his mix but the drums to a parallel Bus with an 1176LN INSERTED, then he sums it to the whole mix and that's essentially what the "rear Bus" technique is in a nutshell...


I'm wondering if it also makes sense to send individual parallel compression and effects sends also to the "Rear bus" channel to get the most out of the effect?

Any insight here would be appreciated!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0l3XAli6Zg
Old 29th May 2019
  #6
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bgood's Avatar
I finally set this up on a mix.... Holy crap... I get why he's a god and I'm, like, not
Old 30th May 2019
  #7
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All buttons in or...?
Old 30th May 2019
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
I finally set this up on a mix.... Holy crap... I get why he's a god and I'm, like, not
Mh not sure about it, never gave it a shot.
But in my book you should get a lot of pahse issues...
I was wondering about this idea even in the Q+A.

If it sounds good - everything is alright.
Or maybe phase issues is the reason he is doing it?

Have to try this the next mix myself.
Old 30th May 2019
  #9
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andychamp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EMMST View Post
All buttons in or...?
In one of the Waves „puppet“ videos he‘s using these settings:
IN30, OUT18, all buttons in, attack slowest, release fastest, blacky, analog OFF, multi-mono (in PT)
He‘s said he doesn‘t even know how much GR it‘s doing, just sets it by ear with the master send of the aux he‘s feeding into it.
Old 30th May 2019
  #10
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tman's Avatar
In his template video he uses an 1176AE dual mono, 2:1

attack slowest, release looks like 6
input-35
output-9
Attached Thumbnails
Andrew Scheps "Rear bus" Technique-img_1482.jpg  
Old 30th May 2019
  #11
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andychamp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tman View Post
In his template video he uses an 1176AE dual mono, 2:1

attack slowest, release looks like 6
input-35
output-9
Probably more recent.
Old 30th May 2019
  #12
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gregkat's Avatar
Dual Mono is key. I think he sends bass through it sometimes, I like the way it sounds sending the bass directly to the mixbuss. Puremix has a video with Schep's template where he goes into great detail about it.
Old 31st May 2019
  #13
yok
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I've been using this technique a lot lately and it does sound good. The only disadvantage IMO is that there's really no way to A/B the mix with and without it, unless you more or less start a new mix that is. You sort of just have to trust that it's doing good things
Old 31st May 2019
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yok View Post
(...) there's really no way to A/B the mix with and without it, unless you more or less start a new mix that is. You sort of just have to trust that it's doing good things
Why not? Simply mute the return of that parallel bus...
Old 31st May 2019
  #15
yok
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andychamp View Post
Why not? Simply mute the return of that parallel bus...
Unless I'm doing it wrong that changes the entire balance of the mix, given that drums, sometimes bass, FX returns etc. aren't sent to the 'rear buss'. Not to mention that the overall level drops, which tricks your ears.
Old 31st May 2019
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yok View Post
Unless I'm doing it wrong that changes the entire balance of the mix, given that drums, sometimes bass, FX returns etc. aren't sent to the 'rear buss'. Not to mention that the overall level drops, which tricks your ears.
AFAIK, the current incarnation of the Rear Bus is „everything except drums“, the idea being that there, the mix kind of auto-balances, based on the lead (usually the voice). Its effect shouldn‘t be day-and-night, but more supportive of an already good mix.
Old 31st May 2019
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yok View Post
Unless I'm doing it wrong that changes the entire balance of the mix, given that drums, sometimes bass, FX returns etc. aren't sent to the 'rear buss'. Not to mention that the overall level drops, which tricks your ears.
Yeah i agree, once you’re in you are in. On my template i have the main vx,gtrs,keys buses sending to the rear bus so as i add stuff to them it all automatically sends to the rear which adds volume.
4:1 can be a bit heavy handed depending on how much you blend the rear bus in. I think that’s why Andrew switched to the UA 2:1 1176.
I use 4:1 on silvers hitting max 4-5 db reduction but their faders are at about -10.
If you set up your template right and use proper gain staging on each track you never need to adjust the 1176 rears after the first time.
Old 1st June 2019
  #18
yok
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenNeedle View Post
Yeah i agree, once you’re in you are in. On my template i have the main vx,gtrs,keys buses sending to the rear bus so as i add stuff to them it all automatically sends to the rear which adds volume.
4:1 can be a bit heavy handed depending on how much you blend the rear bus in. I think that’s why Andrew switched to the UA 2:1 1176.
I use 4:1 on silvers hitting max 4-5 db reduction but their faders are at about -10.
If you set up your template right and use proper gain staging on each track you never need to adjust the 1176 rears after the first time.
Yeah, that's what I mean. There's no way around it as far as I can see
Old 1st June 2019
  #19
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gregkat's Avatar
You get a certain presence that’s hard to get otherwise. Add the inflator and it’s a record.
Old 1st June 2019
  #20
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andychamp's Avatar
Anyone ever try this with another type of compressor, like SSL or API250?
Especially the latter with its finely adjustable stereo link could be interesting.
Or a Fairchild in Vert./Lat. mode.
Old 1st June 2019
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andychamp View Post
Anyone ever try this with another type of compressor, like SSL or API250?
Especially the latter with its finely adjustable stereo link could be interesting.
Or a Fairchild in Vert./Lat. mode.
I’ve liked the pspfet as it is awesome and can run unlinked
Old 1st June 2019
  #22
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JayCutler's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by andychamp View Post
Anyone ever try this with another type of compressor, like SSL or API250?
Especially the latter with its finely adjustable stereo link could be interesting.
Or a Fairchild in Vert./Lat. mode.
I've had some interesting results using Zynaptiq INTENSITY in place of compressor with this technique. I've found INTENSITY works best in parallel anyway, and the different BIAS and OUTPUT settings give a lot of colorful options to blend into a mix.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #23
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Parallel is great for smoothing out individual tracks without the pumping, buy on the mix (without the drums) … I haven't gotten good results. Just a lift of the low level stuff. No magic. I'll keep working on.

Been trying dual 1176 and api 2500. Might try something else. Including saturation.

Last edited by goom; 4 weeks ago at 07:44 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #24
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andychamp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by goom View Post
(...)I haven't gotten good results. Just a lift of the low level stuff. No magic. I'll keep working on.
That‘s the thing with these kind of techniques, they aren‘t some kind of magic bullet, least of all on their own. It‘s a combination of many little „tricks“ that informs the end result.
I think the point - besides avoiding pumping - is to have the vocals poke through the „harmonic soup“ when they‘re singing and to have that whole musical backdrop as one dense entity to counterbalance and anchor the lively, bouncy drums.
A.S. once said that mastering engineers kinda complained about the loudness of the mixes he delivers. This approach certainly is a contributing factor.

Quote:
Been trying dual 1176 and api 2500. Might try something else. Including saturation.
So far, I haven‘t found a setting on the API that excites me (and maybe it doesn‘t need to...).
But I have great hopes for Airwindows‘ new „To Tape 6“, as well as NI‘s
EDIT: Supercharger turned out to be too sluggish for this application.

Last edited by andychamp; 4 weeks ago at 09:27 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #25
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by andychamp View Post
That‘s the thing with these kind of techniques, they aren‘t some kind of magic bullet, least of all on their own. It‘s a combination of many little „tricks“ that informs the end result.
I think the point - besides avoiding pumping - is to have the vocals poke through the „harmonic soup“ when they‘re singing and to have that whole musical backdrop as one dense entity to counterbalance and anchor the lively, bouncy drums.
I think this is an excellent assessment. And it's not just vocals - guitar solos, sax solos, whatever is loudest at the moment gives a similar effect.

I've found it very useful for songs recorded by overdubs one at a time with only minimal guide tracks. In this situation it's difficult for the musicians to play with dynamics and interplay like they would with a full band, and the "all buttons in" approach can get something like some of that back. Sometimes you can have the rear buss just 6dB lower than the "front" buss and it sounds great. Experimentation is key.

If the recording has more natural dynamics one of the lesser compression settings can work well. It very much depends on the program material.

Quote:
A.S. once said that mastering engineers kinda complained about the loudness of the mixes he delivers. This approach certainly is a contributing factor.
I reckon you can flatten out macro dynamics and lose a lot of excitement if you push the technique too far. It's worth the watching.

Cheers,
Jennifer
Old 4 weeks ago
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endorka View Post
I think this is an excellent assessment. And it's not just vocals - guitar solos, sax solos, whatever is loudest at the moment gives a similar effect.

I've found it very useful for songs recorded by overdubs one at a time with only minimal guide tracks. In this situation it's difficult for the musicians to play with dynamics and interplay like they would with a full band, and the "all buttons in" approach can get something like some of that back. Sometimes you can have the rear buss just 6dB lower than the "front" buss and it sounds great. Experimentation is key.

If the recording has more natural dynamics one of the lesser compression settings can work well. It very much depends on the program material.



I reckon you can flatten out macro dynamics and lose a lot of excitement if you push the technique too far. It's worth the watching.

Cheers,
Jennifer
I’ve been using it for quite sometime and it is very easy to over use it. I suspect that is why Andrew went to a 2:1 1176 in recent times from the 4:1 HW.
I use silver 1176s at 4:1 but blend them in @ -12db.
You have to experiment and find your sweet spot cause when you are at the end of a mix you are messing with the DNA of the thing if you start altering that bus level.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #27
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So just to clarify for the stupid people, or person, namely me... All parallel processing (dirt, grit, widening, reverb, delay, other compressors... whatever) everything excluding the drums or parallel processing related to the drums is sent to the Rear-Bus?

is that correct?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #28
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GreenNeedle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by melodic dreamer View Post
So just to clarify for the stupid people, or person, namely me... All parallel processing (dirt, grit, widening, reverb, delay, other compressors... whatever) everything excluding the drums or parallel processing related to the drums is sent to the Rear-Bus?

is that correct?
Not necessarily the fx etc.
Its up to you. Andrew puts percussion in his and sometimes bass gtr.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenNeedle View Post
Not necessarily the fx etc.
Its up to you. Andrew puts percussion in his and sometimes bass gtr.

Thanks for the reply.

I guess the thing for me when doing it without the fx, I have to start maxing out fx sends to compete with the rear buss's volume when using Scheps settings. If I put all of my parallel Fx's in the rear bus then everything equals out again and I don't have to push the sends as hard.

I could be coming at this completely wrong. I'm still learning, so hopefully that makes sense.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melodic dreamer View Post
I guess the thing for me when doing it without the fx, I have to start maxing out fx sends to compete with the rear buss's volume when using Scheps settings. If I put all of my parallel Fx's in the rear bus then everything equals out again and I don't have to push the sends as hard.

I could be coming at this completely wrong. I'm still learning, so hopefully that makes sense.
Same thing here: the parallell bus adds quite some volume to the mix so I include FX in it as well.

There's no right or wrong way of doing it, only do what works for you.
The whole idea of the rearbuss is having something like a giant rubber sheet in which one lead source can poke out and push the rest a bit back (without using faders/automation).
As long as you mix into the parallell bus it's all going to sound good.




Herwig
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