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Less is more...?
Old 21st May 2019
  #31
Lives for gear
 
Brian M. Boykin's Avatar
Here’s another great thread you can read of a less is more technique that is proven. I’m gonna give this a try myself next session. As a drummer I tend to lean towards this style of recording drums. I already use active ribbons as overheads so moving them to true right/left OH’s and placing a LDC over the drummers shoulder doesn’t require much moving. I’m very interested in the knee mic. I’ve been planning a mic build and now I know what they’ll be.

Question for Steve (Remoteness) re: drum mic
Old 21st May 2019
  #32
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanHaakma View Post
This is funny :-). But thank you amyway.
I wasn't joking, I was honestly telling you the difference between "Money" drum tracks and "also rans"

You can't throw money at gear and get better drum tracks UNLESS you know you will only be recording drummers of a certain skill level.

If you are tracking pros only, then have at er' the gear will make a difference.

If you aren't recording "studio quality' drummers....the gear won't make any difference at all.
Old 21st May 2019
  #33
Lives for gear
 
Brian M. Boykin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrible.dee View Post
I wasn't joking, I was honestly telling you the difference between "Money" drum tracks and "also rans"

You can't throw money at gear and get better drum tracks UNLESS you know you will only be recording drummers of a certain skill level.

If you are tracking pros only, then have at er' the gear will make a difference.

If you aren't recording "studio quality' drummers....the gear won't make any difference at all.
This is true, but if your the drummer, which was my case when I started recording myself in 2003ish, you can grow as a drummer as your equipment grows. Recording yourself and then learning how to play to fix it in the mix is gold. If your relying on mic’s, preamps, and compressors to make you sound good you’ll never be satisfied and always be chasing gear. I do think different techniques work better in different rooms as well as different mic’s. Rooms have a frequency response. I know I’m preaching to the choir to most of us, but to those starting out this is helpful. I could write a novel on the lessons learned but the short is, listen to the professionals and mimic their techniques with the best quality gear you can afford. Start with a good instrument.

Brian

Last edited by Brian M. Boykin; 21st May 2019 at 06:04 PM..
Old 21st May 2019
  #34
Gear Addict
 

What you already have can give you a good recording. Get some mics first. Then add 2 - 4 pres for say Kick/Snare and overheads if you want different tones there. These pres can be used for other tracks after drums are done. Toms would be the last to get mic pre upgrades in the future. this way you can do more mics.. and if you like what you hear you don't have to use all the tracks. When mix time comes it's good to have the options.
Old 21st May 2019
  #35
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by terrible.dee View Post
I wasn't joking, I was honestly telling you the difference between "Money" drum tracks and "also rans"

You can't throw money at gear and get better drum tracks UNLESS you know you will only be recording drummers of a certain skill level.

If you are tracking pros only, then have at er' the gear will make a difference.

If you aren't recording "studio quality' drummers....the gear won't make any difference at all.
I just find this kind of posts funny. It’s totally not answering the question of the OP, instead it’s the poster trying to show his/her knowledge.
Old 21st May 2019
  #36
Lives for gear
 
Brian M. Boykin's Avatar
Do you have room treatments up? And when I say room treatments I mean ridged fiberglass of the Corning 703 type in the corners, in a cloud, and on the walls? 4” and a minimum and 6” ideally. That made me able to get a nice drum recording with my Soundcraft 400b and cheap Chinese mics. Moving to transparent pre’s made for less EQ and now I’m using my own custom built mic’s and again I’m not having to use much EQ to get it right in the mix. My chain is Mic, to pre, to converters. I skip the console in the recording process. No sense running your audio through more electronics unless it adds some color you like. I don’t compress either. Just raw recordings. If your happy with your console as your pre’s I’d get mics. Your gonna have to experiment. It’s room dependent. If your OH’s are cymbal heavy then ribbons may help. If their dark then a K67 or C12 style capsule may help brighten them up. A k47 will be more flat. The mic circuit has a lot to do with the mic response also so do your homework. I use my mic’s to achieve the EQ I need at the source. You can fix it in the mix to some degree but it’s not ideal. If your not doing small tweaking with minor cuts or boosts (+- 3db) is my personal rule of thumb, then fix the room, retune the set, or choose a different mic. Gear will not fix dynamics. I learned “recording dynamics” by watching peak meters and VU meters while I played and learned to make them peak at the same level each hit.

In the thread I posted above Steve uses a similar set up to what I think makes for a very balanced recording. That mic over the shoulder is awesome. That’s why I use recorderman. I’m pretty excited to try his technique. I hadn’t seen it until a couple days ago but it makes perfect sense in my experience.

I’m trying to answer your original question with my own experience. Idk your level of experience so I’m just throwing it all out there like you just started recording.

Brian
Old 21st May 2019
  #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrible.dee View Post
I wasn't joking, I was honestly telling you the difference between "Money" drum tracks and "also rans"

You can't throw money at gear and get better drum tracks UNLESS you know you will only be recording drummers of a certain skill level.

If you are tracking pros only, then have at er' the gear will make a difference.

If you aren't recording "studio quality' drummers....the gear won't make any difference at all.
Totally agree that getting professional (money) drum tracks requires first and foremost a professional player. If I were trying to produce music for commercial consumption, I wouldn't go near a drum kit. I'm a guitarist. However, there are plenty of musicians with home studios (like myself) who aren't trying to earn their living in the music business and as such have no reason to hire a professional drummer just to serve their musical vision. Not being a pro doesn't automatically make you a complete hack. The vast majority of us who buy high end gear are not hacks at all and it's just a thrill and a half to capture and showcase the best performance(s) we are capable of delivering using the best gear we can afford. I mean, no fricken way I'm gonna settle for Behringer preamps on my Starclassic maples just because I'm not a professional drummer.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #38
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by terrible.dee View Post
If you want to put money into getting better drum tracks HIRE A PRO DRUMMER and use ANY of the methods you listed.

THE difference (The one you are looking for) in drum tracks is 90% player, 9% kit and proper tunning, 1% everything else.

I have heard drum tracks made with a digital handheld recorder that are better than full "bell and whistle" multi-tracks, because of the guy playing them.

The better the drummer the fewer the mics.

This is very true.
Both methods you mentioned can get you a great sound.

Have fun recording!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #39
Here for the gear
 
GTRTony's Avatar
I have been getting really good sound out of drum kits with:
-a large diameter condenser or ribbon mic in omni as an overhead in as centralized above all the kit items as I can get it to be mainly so the cymbals are even when hit,
-a large diameter condenser (I'd maybe use another ribbon if I had two) in cardioid several feet in front of the kit below the level of the cymbals and hi-hat,
-an Audix D6 about 6" from the beater,
-a sub kick mic at/just about outside the front of the bass drum,
-and then SM57's above/under the snare and on each tom.

8 total on my own kit. Recording myself for band demos/my own tunes, I use Samson CL8's for the OH and front of kit and run them all into a Presonus Firestudio Project but it does sound good! And it allows me to, when not recording another band, always have my drums set up and mic'ed to record. I can use my other 8, nicer preamps and mics running into my interface for an always-mic'ed-up guitar/bass amp, and then 2/3 nicer mics for vocal/acoustic/what have you. I wanted to get an Audient 8-channel preamp and sell off the Presonus because the Audient (I think I looked at the ASP880) has polarity and other controls per-channel but honestly I'm fine for now with the Firestudio Project. ...fine with it for now

Of course flip the polarity of the under-snare mic (and sometimes other mics, like bass drum mics and/or the front of kit mic). I used to move the tracks physically around to try to help get them in phase or whatever, but now I will just use delay: I will either use the overhead or the front of kit mic as the 'main' room mic for the kit, usually the front of kit mic because I like how it picks up the whole kit. I do this because I am too lazy to walk across the house to move a mic, play/record it, walk back to listen to it, repeat until right for them all. If I had someone to help me I'd move the mics physically but the DAW cheat works too

I always have had the most issue getting my bass drum to be crisp but also deep/full, and the D6/sub kick mic/front of kit mic combo really gets a lot of good bass drum tone in it. Each time I set up new mics on a kit I'll always hit just a few bass drum hits (along with other full kit playing) in order to see how that transient moves through each microphone's path. I will delay the bass drum (in logic I have the ruler set to show milliseconds) by roughly the distance I can measure out with the playhead, but I'll move the delay in tenths of decimal places because sometimes 1.9ms is the sweet spot instead of 2ms. Using those bass drum kicks, I'll check each mic against the front of kit mic but then also adding in all the mics I've delayed before it until I get to the end. Then I FINALLY get pretty good sounding, crisp, ringing out drum kit sound! I compress the snare bus, overhead, and front of kit, and then bus all the drum mics and compress the drum bus. Started using the high pass sidechain in Logic's compressors, and set it around 130 or so Hz so it doesn't go after the bass drum. Then you can set the compressor to 4:1 or 8:1 and kind of crank it a little and it sounds good
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