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what contributed mostly to the 70's sound, mics, tape, or gear? Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1171
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jiffybox's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Other than Summers' vocal and the kick, everything else is synthesized and sequenced. Quite remarkable in '77 for a major hit.
I think this is still the synth production/song/mix/arrangement, or whatever you wish to call it, to beat. Came on in my car yesterday and I cranked it and just marveled at the sound as I do whenever I hear it. As far as I’m concerned nothing has ever touched it.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1172
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robert82's Avatar
Forgot what a powerhouse D. Summer was. She was an "empowered" woman way ahead of her time.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1173
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Did Mike T. mean Quaalude the drug...Or that pill Pop-in' 70's group, with a hit cover/remake of "Take It Easy"!
Chris
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1174
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12tone's Avatar
 

Horns contributed for sure.

Old 4 weeks ago
  #1175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger View Post
Synth invasion!

My bass crisis continues.
And the comment on vinyl mastering resonates once again. Is this THE main reason the 70s sounds thinner than now? I think so. That and playback technology not being able to cope.
I still wonder what the EMI/Beatles engineer said on the other thread linked about 13 pages back “100hz was ALL we had to go to”.
What did he mean??? Vinyl? White lab coat “rules”?
"100Hz was all they had": I think he meant that they had a fixed EQ point on those EMI consoles.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1176
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Sigma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Did Mike T. mean Quaalude the drug...Or that pill Pop-in' 70's group, with a hit cover/remake of "Take It Easy"!
Chris
The drug..but I saw The Tubes ..fun comcert
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1177
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Mike T., if you don't mind...

What might be some of your favorite "recording memories" from the 70's?
Were you able to hang out much with your Dad, when he was recording?
Chris
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
The drug..but I saw The Tubes ..fun comcert
White Punks On Dope!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1179
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GearFiddler's Avatar
 

PROG...GG.....GG........GG!!

Old 3 weeks ago
  #1180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
1975


2 years later

I work a lot with Giorgio. He has a great vision for what the finished thing should be. Incredibly talented. Believe me, it's not the sounds he was working with. It was his vision as an artist.

One of the best.

Steve
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1181
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roger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
"100Hz was all they had": I think he meant that they had a fixed EQ point on those EMI consoles.
I’m not so sure. For example the original EMI RS compressors rolled off pretty steeply from 80hz. There is very little going on below 70hz on a lot of the late 60s and well into the 70s. Was it HPF’ed out as a “standard” - for vinyl and or playback systems or radio? I’m just trying to get my head around it. Dr Dre hadn’t come along yet I guess. When did the 15” sub first appear in the automobile? Haha!
The Beatles recorded with 47s, 48s, 67s etc so they were capturing full frequency stuff at the source. Where’d it go? Why’d it go?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger View Post
I’m not so sure. For example the original EMI RS compressors rolled off pretty steeply from 80hz. There is very little going on below 70hz on a lot of the late 60s and well into the 70s. Was it HPF’ed out as a “standard” - for vinyl and or playback systems or radio? I’m just trying to get my head around it. Dr Dre hadn’t come along yet I guess. When did the 15” sub first appear in the automobile? Haha!
The Beatles recorded with 47s, 48s, 67s etc so they were capturing full frequency stuff at the source. Where’d it go? Why’d it go?
"The REDD.51 featured two types of EQ – ‘Pop’ and ‘Classic’ – both of which provided 10dB of shelving boost or cut at 100Hz. The ‘Classic’ treble EQ was also a shelving boost and cut at 10kHz, while the ‘Pop’ equaliser behaved as a peak-boost EQ centred around 5kHz, and a shelving-cut EQ at 10kHz. As these EQ options were quite limited, EMI designed an outboard ‘Presence Box’ to be used in conjunction with the desk; the RS127 provided 10dB of boost and cut at 2.7kHz, 3.5kHz and 10kHz."

Source:
Studio Icons: EMI REDD.51 - MusicTech
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1183
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roger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
"The REDD.51 featured two types of EQ – ‘Pop’ and ‘Classic’ – both of which provided 10dB of shelving boost or cut at 100Hz. The ‘Classic’ treble EQ was also a shelving boost and cut at 10kHz, while the ‘Pop’ equaliser behaved as a peak-boost EQ centred around 5kHz, and a shelving-cut EQ at 10kHz. As these EQ options were quite limited, EMI designed an outboard ‘Presence Box’ to be used in conjunction with the desk; the RS127 provided 10dB of boost and cut at 2.7kHz, 3.5kHz and 10kHz."

Source:
Studio Icons: EMI REDD.51 - MusicTech
Good info. But a 100hz shelf would give you a huge bottom end. Ringos kick could be thunderous. Where is it?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1184
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Sigma's Avatar
most kicks were miked with mikes that had a higher low end roll off or was cut with a 12-18 octave roll off at 50 hz to leave space for the bass gtr..i don't think you'll find a record from that time period where the kick voices any lower than 50 hz
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
most kicks were miked with mikes that had a higher low end roll off or was cut with a 12-18 octave roll off at 50 hz to leave space for the bass gtr..i don't think you'll find a record from that time period where the kick voices any lower than 50 hz
Also when you have a small, shallow kick with no front head and a giant 8-armed wool sweater stuffed inside, you tend to lose some bottom end.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1186
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Saturday Night Fever probably has been cited in this thread, but one from basically the same time — Looking for Mr Goodbar soundtrack, 1977, encapsulates the gestalt and ethos of that period just as well. Each song had that "sound" and vibe; the music captures how that period felt and looked, how people thought and acted. Maybe some of that is due to how we imagined it was, and the music fills in the gaps.

Looking for Mr Goodbar soundtrack:
"Theme from Looking for Mr. Goodbar (Don't Ask to Stay Until Tomorrow)" – Carol Connors and Artie Kane
"Don't Leave Me This Way" – Thelma Houston
"Lowdown" – Boz Scaggs
"Machine Gun" – Commodores
"Love Hangover" – Diana Ross
"She Wants to (Get on Down)" – Bill Withers
"Theme from Looking for Mr. Goodbar (Don't Ask to Stay Until Tomorrow) [Reprise]" – Carol Connors and Artie Kane
"Theme from Looking for Mr. Goodbar (Don't Ask to Stay Until Tomorrow) [Vocal]" – Carol Connors and Artie Kane; vocal by Marlena Shaw
"She's Lonely" – Bill Withers
"Try Me, I Know We Can Make It" – Donna Summer
"Back Stabbers" – The O'Jays
"Prelude to Love" – Donna Summer
"Could It Be Magic" – Donna Summer
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1187
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Sigma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
Mike T., if you don't mind...

What might be some of your favorite "recording memories" from the 70's?
Were you able to hang out much with your Dad, when he was recording?
Chris
lol "the engineer is always right" so the assistant was the piss boy on sessions..at the end of a session joe would apologize to the assistant..for cursing them out during sessions for their mistakes as well as his that he laid on them..lol he kicked an assistant once fo saying they heard some distortion on a instrument in front of a client rather than whispering it to him.[last session i did with him as an assistant was jerry butler.. remember it like it was yesterday because it was the first and last time i burned a track..joe wanted to get out because we had tickets for the phillies playoffs in 1980 when we won the world series..the flute player went to dbl..i got rushed and burnt a few bars of his first track..it was a M79 remote ..RED DANGER !!!. last, as both engineers, the last PIR ojays album..[although we mastered stuff together later on... tommy bell wanted to work with me and kenny gamble worked with joe] .he stopped working with me because he said "i can't apologize to my son" LOLZ..look i love him but he's a 1 trick pony..the best thing i did was learn what they did and then not emulate a lot of it and morphing from R&B to working with gospel and reggae acts in the beginning..my pop basically taught me nothing [not even console flow] i learned on my own and watched outside engineers as much as possible [this past week alone i'm mixing and co producing a spanish woman singing sephardic songs..i mastered two stoner metal sabbath type bands and mixed a alt rock/funk band..and today is a track that the guy wants to sound like queens of the stone age"]

assisting on jerry butler was great.. as was dexter wansel life on mars..stevie on secret life of plants, ain't no stoppin us now , disco inferno, robert palmer and edgar winter and being the gofer on young americans


joe had a formula and the engineers were expected to follow it ..ER not me..to me sigma drums were paper sounding and some of the vocal techniques needed work..they just pulled 10 dB outta 2.2 on patti labelle where i split the track and pulled that when she screamed but left that zone flat when she was soft and automated the returns...and that was 10 years after we had automation so i have no clue as to why no one did it before [first album that i cut her vocals and then mixed songs she won her first "best R&B vocals" grammy..the producer also gave me carte blanche on stopping the tape if i heard phrasing or intonation issues..it's a trust thing i expect after working with someone a few times..why waste time if your dealing with objective rather than subjective analysis ]

PS outta all that time Don Murray, Tony Maseratti and Jerry Block were the only engineers to really break out after working at sigma and none of them really worked with joe

Last edited by Sigma; 3 weeks ago at 07:18 PM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1188
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12ax7's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
[...] why waste time if your dealing with objective rather than subjective analysis [...]
...Only trouble is that recognizing the difference is often a subjective thing in itself.
.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1189
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Sigma's Avatar
to a point.. during an emotive part a bit of sharp or a break up in voice can be great..but if the intonation or timing pull you outta the groove that's objective esp if you know the artist and producer

i essentially produced gerald levert's vocals for a decade because he was the producer and the artist so when he sang i'd stop if i heard an issue he didn't we were the only people other than the assistant in the studio

on patti once i worked with her a few times i knew the limits
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
to a point.. during an emotive part a bit of sharp or a break up in voice can be great..but if the intonation or timing pull you outta the groove that's objective esp if you know the artist and producer

i essentially produced gerald levert's vocals for a decade because he was the producer and the artist so when he sang i'd stop if i heard an issue he didn't we were the only people other than the assistant in the studio

on patti once i worked with her a few times i knew the limits
Exactly!

Recording is meta-art:

It's an art about an art.

Your above post exemplifies this truth by quite objectively expressing the subjectivity of the matter!

(...Or is that the other way 'round?)
.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1191
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Thanks so much Mike T.! Chris
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
most kicks were miked with mikes that had a higher low end roll off or was cut with a 12-18 octave roll off at 50 hz to leave space for the bass gtr..i don't think you'll find a record from that time period where the kick voices any lower than 50 hz
I also think the idea that a mic and where you place it is EQ in it's simplest form and a lot of hobby engineers tend to forget that.

For what they lacked in sophistication come mix time, they made up for with big rooms, full compliment of staff (i.e. assistants to move mics around), excellent isolation in the control room.

A lot of us nowadays operate out of one-room studios, by ourselves for the most part, so it's easy to give up and say, "that sounds good enough... I'll fix it later" and reach for EQ, compression, saturation, transient shapers, sample replacement/reinforcement instead.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1193
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norfolk martin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
I also think the idea that a mic and where you place it is EQ in it's simplest form and a lot of hobby engineers tend to forget that.

For what they lacked in sophistication come mix time, they made up for with big rooms, full compliment of staff (i.e. assistants to move mics around), excellent isolation in the control room.
.
I agree, but I would note that a lot of the techniques of "eq by mic placement" or by mic selection, or by the section of polar patterns, initially developed because of a lack of versatile EQ on the early desks, not because the engineers regarded it as a sonic virtue, as it tends to be portrayed by the modern "eq is poison" advocates.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1194
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roger's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gravyface View Post
I also think the idea that a mic and where you place it is EQ in it's simplest form and a lot of hobby engineers tend to forget that.

For what they lacked in sophistication come mix time, they made up for with big rooms, full compliment of staff (i.e. assistants to move mics around), excellent isolation in the control room.

A lot of us nowadays operate out of one-room studios, by ourselves for the most part, so it's easy to give up and say, "that sounds good enough... I'll fix it later" and reach for EQ, compression, saturation, transient shapers, sample replacement/reinforcement instead.
Great point!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1195
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Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk martin View Post
I agree, but I would note that a lot of the techniques of "eq by mic placement" or by mic selection, or by the section of polar patterns, initially developed because of a lack of versatile EQ on the early desks, not because the engineers regarded it as a sonic virtue, as it tends to be portrayed by the modern "eq is poison" advocates.
Actually eq was considered "poison" back then. Studio monitors like Altecs had been chosen for their ability to spot musical problems during sessions. Everybody I knew had a pretty good Hi-Fi system at home where we checked out the sound of our mixes. This was because we knew we were flying somewhat blind. Microphone placement was found to translate better than eq. by many people including myself. I suspect this is because at some point we'd start eqing to perfect the deficiencies of the monitoring and wind-up over-optimizing.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1196
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They did not put Back Stabbers on the Looking for Mr Goodbar soundtrack, did they?! That’s a bit much. I was fascinated by that movie when it came out. I was seven and it seemed so dark and mysterious. I never saw it or really knew what it was about, but the previews/commercials were just weird enough that I was both scared and intrigued. For some reason I always associated Donna Summer’s I Feel Love with that movie. Not on the soundtrack I see, but maybe it was used in promo spots?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk martin View Post
I agree, but I would note that a lot of the techniques of "eq by mic placement" or by mic selection, or by the section of polar patterns, initially developed because of a lack of versatile EQ on the early desks, not because the engineers regarded it as a sonic virtue, as it tends to be portrayed by the modern "eq is poison" advocates.
That's what I meant by "lack of sophistication": if you have basically a fixed point bass and treble on your desk, you don't really have a choice, but to use mics/positioning to fill in the gaps.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1198
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I just had a thought that with EQ we try to overcome the effects of close micing something. When we hear a whole band played live, everything's far away. Nothing sounds particularly fat or bigger than life. But when we close mic, especially with cardioid, things can sound huge. And then we have to thin them back up again to fit in the mix, make it sound like what we're used to hearing "normally".
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1199
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This may have been shared before in this 30 day old 40 page thread, so my apologies in advance. Here's a full band playing in the same room at the same time just like they would be at a regular gig. I think there's a lot to be said for this method and it seems to be typical of the '70s recording techniques.


Last edited by Drumhead57; 3 weeks ago at 12:55 PM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumhead57 View Post
This may have been shared before in this 30 day old 40 page thread, so my apologies in advance. Here's a full band playing in the same room at the same time just like they would be at a regular gig.
The video does have a nice, documentary-like quality. But for it to have been shot real time off the floor, well, there are 11 different camera angles in the first minute alone. Good film-making.
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