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what contributed mostly to the 70's sound, mics, tape, or gear? Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 1 week ago
  #901
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Experienced musicians CAN do it today but it requires NOT using a click and not overdubbing. That way the time is felt as a common energy communicated by breath among the ensemble.
Old 1 week ago
  #902
Lives for gear
 
12ax7's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
Experienced musicians CAN do it today but it requires NOT using a click and not overdubbing. That way the time is felt as a common energy communicated by breath among the ensemble.
Yep.
The overdubber can react to what has already been recorded, but what is already recorded cannot react to the overdub.

That's just gonna feel different from an actual musical conversation.
Old 1 week ago
  #903
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

With the majority of my recording work being in ad and tv/movie music, I've heard a lot of session bands groove like crazy with a click in their cans. Saying they can't doesn't give them enough credit, in my opinion.
Old 1 week ago
  #904
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12ax7's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
With the majority of my recording work being in ad and tv/movie music, I've heard a lot of session bands groove like crazy with a click in their cans. Saying they can't doesn't give them enough credit, in my opinion.
Carol Kaye said that if a bass player practices enough with a metronome, they can make the metronome sound like ITs swinging!

...Still, that's not quite the same kinda groove that happens with hot cats playing "au naturale".
Old 1 week ago
  #905
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
Carol Kaye said that if a bass player practices enough with a metronome, they can make the metronome sound like ITs swinging!

...Still, that's not quite the same kinda groove that happens with hot cats playing "au naturale".
Doesn't have to be a bass player, can be anyone. And I'm assuming she means a click generator, but if she means a Seth Thomas, those things swing all on their own.

And when it comes to playing on commercial and movie dates, the click isn't there to keep everyone steady; it's there to ensure a predictable elapsed time. Good players can ignore it for the one purpose while heeding it for the other.
Old 1 week ago
  #906
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
[INDENT]Carol Kaye said that if a bass player practices enough with a metronome, they can make the metronome sound like ITs swinging!
That's true of any genre.

Time stands still, but there are literally an infinite number of points between any given beats.

"Swing", or groove of feel, is the subtle timing shifts that occurs between predefined metric markings, or "grid" if you will.
Old 1 week ago
  #907
Gear Maniac
 
GearFiddler's Avatar
 

Here's another jazz rock gem from the 70's. Mostly for the bass solo. Ralph Armstrong on bass. Gets the nod for this share over all the other great playing on this album. At times the drummer gooses the groove and Ralph is up to speed. Incredibly aware. I'm not even sure it isn't him calling that shot, but the drummer has the subdivision in at least one case. Hard for me to tell though. Anyway...."neyeoooowwww"....



Old 1 week ago
  #908
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Sigma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
With the majority of my recording work being in ad and tv/movie music, I've heard a lot of session bands groove like crazy with a click in their cans. Saying they can't doesn't give them enough credit, in my opinion.
but when i ask guys that do this ..they invariably say i float in and out
Old 1 week ago
  #909
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Sigma's Avatar
on "click" and i assisted ..no second hand info..vince montana [salsoul orch] hired earl young [tramps ..mfsb and studio drummer] we had 3 15 ips 256 nwb dolby reels ..turned on 120 bpm click on first..dropped it out ..we ran all those reels with him doing grooves in 120 no click after that..we actually edited drum stuff from reel 1 into 3 with no push or pull ..earl was a machine..saw it..heard it..that being said he was no tony williams or ginger ..foot snare hat..pocket
Old 1 week ago
  #910
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
No, no . . . that's Jaco on standup.
So, supposedly, Jaco a big fan of WR, sought out Zawinul and gave him a demo tape. After hearing it, he asked Jaco, "do you play electric bass as well?"

The Speak Like a Child portion is uncanny in its upright bass likeness.
Old 1 week ago
  #911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
With the majority of my recording work being in ad and tv/movie music, I've heard a lot of session bands groove like crazy with a click in their cans. Saying they can't doesn't give them enough credit, in my opinion.
IMO the groove really gets deeper with the micro dynamics, and that’s the sh*t that’s way harder to feel with headphones.
Old 1 week ago
  #912
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
...Time stands still, but there are literally an infinite number of points between any given beats.

"Swing", or groove of feel, is the subtle timing shifts that occurs between predefined metric markings, or "grid" if you will.
In other words, it's all about tension and release against even time.
Old 1 week ago
  #913
Gear Addict
 

Sometimes we appeal to swing or natural bla bla bla only for the necessity to adjust some riffs in a time signature that is something like 15/16 or 17/16 or 33/32. Simply a little faster or a little slower.
But since many musicians only "know" the 4/4 then they always set the project click track to 4/4 and that is the fault that alter the spirit of the song once recorded...

That's why I prefer a midi track, not a flat metronome generator, so I can program every riff "click" in the time signature I like. Sometimes throwing a +1/8 or +1/16, +1/3 , here and there, in some parts, can alter in a good way the song. Specially in "transitions" parts.

Sometimes I also use variable BPM. Also using a costant BPM in a potential error in some songs in my opinion.
For example you can use 150BPM for the phrase and 130 for the chorus. 140 for the transition in between.
Or viceversa...
Or programming a song that starts at 100 and finishes at 80.

Old 1 week ago
  #914
Gear Maniac
 
s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
Carol Kaye said that if a bass player practices enough with a metronome, they can make the metronome sound like ITs swinging!

...Still, that's not quite the same kinda groove that happens with hot cats playing "au naturale".
Caril Kay! wow enuff said there! brings a whole new meaning to the word can t.
Old 1 week ago
  #915
Lives for gear
 
12ax7's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson View Post
In other words, it's all about tension and release against even time.
...Or in some cases, even against ODD time!
.
Old 1 week ago
  #916
Gear Addict
 

Sometimes I also feel that a hybrid click track (a track that contains more informations than a normal click) can be useful for the recording, or to stimulate the composition.
Also maybe with a touch of sync delay to have also a "bouncy" feeling behind the accents.

Something like this (it's in odd times):
Attached Files

click (2).mp3 (1.17 MB, 459 views)

Old 1 week ago
  #917
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
I prefer eighth notes to quarters for the click. I don't feel enough rock players (the bulk of my clients) truly understand division and sub-division, so if feed it to them. That is, if I'm using a click, which is NOT a default on my productions.
Old 1 week ago
  #918
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
I prefer eighth notes to quarters for the click. I don't feel enough rock players (the bulk of my clients) truly understand division and sub-division, so if feed it to them. That is, if I'm using a click, which is NOT a default on my productions.
Seems to me that drummers tend to like a double-time click. I've always assumed it had something to do with their faster-than-average metabolisms.
Old 1 week ago
  #919
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bigbone's Avatar
 

Quarter Notes click for me . !!!!!
Old 1 week ago
  #920
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimi777 View Post
Sometimes I also feel that a hybrid click track (a track that contains more informations than a normal click) can be useful for the recording, or to stimulate the composition.
Also maybe with a touch of sync delay to have also a "bouncy" feeling behind the accents.

Something like this:
They say that certain patterns of flashing lights can trigger an epileptic seizure. This may be the audio equivalent.
Old 1 week ago
  #921
Lives for gear
 
norfolk martin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
I prefer eighth notes to quarters for the click. I don't feel enough rock players (the bulk of my clients) truly understand division and sub-division, so if feed it to them. That is, if I'm using a click, which is NOT a default on my productions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Seems to me that drummers tend to like a double-time click. I've always assumed it had something to do with their faster-than-average metabolisms.
I think its because the kick or snare are right on top of a 1/4 note click a lot of the time, so it's difficult to hear.
Old 1 week ago
  #922
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk martin View Post
I think its because the kick or snare are right on top of a 1/4 note click a lot of the time, so it's difficult to hear.
Good reason!
Old 1 week ago
  #923
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave View Post
Faraday cages are the great for RFI rejection (from planets too?), even on the pc level. The drummers groove can be replicated with steel drumsticks and a carefully place magnet no?
I think the only way close is an isolation chamber with atmosphere control, built into an anechoic chamber, using an electric generator from 70's, a few magnets, uv lights mixed with certain leds, 70s mic, 70s track recorder, and a faraday cage around the whole drummer and kit, also make sure to wear flares and tight t-shirt(wearing anything other than 70s clothes will not get that 'sound'),

When you do this you are guaranteed the best 70s drums and will sound indistinguishable to 70s songs!
Old 1 week ago
  #924
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
They say that certain patterns of flashing lights can trigger an epileptic seizure. This may be the audio equivalent.
LOL
I imagine that Spinning by Spiral Architect is not your favourite song.
Old 1 week ago
  #925
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Seems to me that drummers tend to like a double-time click. I've always assumed it had something to do with their faster-than-average metabolisms.
As I age my metabolism is slower...but I still prefer eighths for the click.

Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk martin View Post
I think its because the kick or snare are right on top of a 1/4 note click a lot of the time, so it's difficult to hear.
That is true, but for me, I think the in between needs more attention given to it. Its not just the beat, but the space. For a lot of players without formal training, they really can't grasp the division and subdivisions. I can't tell you how many times i've worked with clients who could not understand where a syncopated note actually was in real time, even though someone in the band was playing it correctly, and someone else was not.

I like my click to have a clear ONE as well.
Old 1 week ago
  #926
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
They say that certain patterns of flashing lights can trigger an epileptic seizure. This may be the audio equivalent.
I had a guitar player friend who played with the organist Jack McDuff. He said that McDuff would have the band practice in the dark to a strobe light sync'd to the metronome to get tight.
Old 1 week ago
  #927
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
I had a guitar player friend who played with the organist Jack McDuff. He said that McDuff would have the band practice in the dark to a strobe light sync'd to the metronome to get tight.
I guess its a very psychologically attentive method, sounds good for teaching/learning.
Old 1 week ago
  #928
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimi777 View Post
Sometimes I also feel that a hybrid click track (a track that contains more informations than a normal click) can be useful for the recording, or to stimulate the composition.
Also maybe with a touch of sync delay to have also a "bouncy" feeling behind the accents.

Something like this (it's in odd times):
Drum/percussion loops can be the same thing.

This is the metronome I had in college.
Old 1 week ago
  #929
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Drum/percussion loops can be the same thing.
This is the metronome I had in college.
Exactly.

The only downside is that you can't build a 20 minutes long progressive rock track with the doctor beat.
With midi programming (software or with a purposely designed machine) you can design the whole song click "structure".
Old 1 week ago
  #930
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HKhz View Post
and tight t-shirt
I think that doing the "car check" of the mix in one of these 1970 cars would improve the vibe dramatically:

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