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I Mix on a Midas F32 Board, what do I do now??? (2018)
Old 12th November 2018
  #1
Gear Head
I Mix on a Midas F32 Board, what do I do now??? (2018)

I currently mix on a Midas Venice F32. It's an analog mixing board (used for live audio as well by some people) that can take in and deliver back 32 channels to and from Pro Tools via Firewire connection. It's pretty great considering I can mix from a full digital set up through an analog board, using all my outboard gear in analog environment as well. I just route each channel of a mix to a channel on the Midas, then I can send my mix bus back FW to a stereo channel in Pro Tools. What could be better, considering my financial restrictions?

Here's the problem....
I need to upgrade my Mac Tower G5 (circa 2008), if not now, eventually. It is running Pro Tools 11. I'd like to get a new computer, but of course now computers do not come equipped with Firewire connections. This leaves several horrifying scenarios, the most important being:

1) What if Midas never releases Drivers again?

2) Even if they do release drivers, how can I get this FW converted and will that work?

This on top of all the normal, OS, software upgrade issues.

So if anyone has info on Midas' plans, or lack there of, please let me know. OR - is there a competitor board that I can replace the Midas with that can do what I've described above?

Thanks for any help.
Old 12th November 2018
  #2
Gear Head
 

one solution would be to get a modern audio interface with an updated computer connection that allows you to continue using your console.
If you got an antelope orion or the new presonus Quantum 4848, you would have 32 channels of line-level analog I/O to patch in and out of your existing midas. I'm not familiar with the f32, but so long as it's got tape returns and not ONLY FW returns on board, you could continue with nearly the same functionality on the same console but with modern connectivity, lower latency and (I would assume) higher quality conversion/better sounding recordings.
Old 12th November 2018
  #3
Gear Head
Thank you bdarrett. This helps a lot. This certainly helps with my 2nd hurdle mentioned. Of course this adds to my upgrade costs, but that aside, both of these units seem to come with good reputations and would be good options.

That leaves my bigger problem, whether or not Midas/Music GROUP will be updating drivers to keep up with Mac OS upgrades. I have heard that they haven't upgraded the driver in quite some time and some people have even said they cut off support.

I feel like now I could get to a point where I have the new lap top running Pro Tools as I wish, with AD/DA conversion taking place via an Antelope Orion 32 or the Presonus Quantum 4848, but then my board Midas F32 will not be able to communicate with a modern version of Pro Tools on a current Mac OS.

Anyone with any feedback on this? Or possible workarounds?
Old 12th November 2018
  #4
Gear Head
Although, now that I think of it, I'm running the Midas F32 as a completely Analog board, I guess I wouldn't need it to communicate with Pro Tools. Pro Tools would be linked with the Antelope or Presonus A to D. Is this a proper way of addressing the signal flow? I have not used an AD/DA in my home studio previously.
Old 12th November 2018
  #5
Deleted 9537e4f
Guest
its was a bad idea to buy an analog console that relies on driver updates from behringer. something like this is always a marriage made in hell.
countless victims...when will they ever learn!
but the good news: its anyway a good desk (i got the BOSCH, pre behringer version without the "F" ( hey, did you ever thought about what that "F" could stand for ? )
now combine it with something thats more future proof, i.e. RME (and i mean nothing else than RME)
Old 12th November 2018
  #6
Gear Head
 

yeah, with my method of solving your problem, the midas would have no need to communicate with your computer. whether it's still currently supported or not, I would be shocked if firewire devices like that console remain supported for more than another year or two at most. Firewire was always a bit of a trainwreck for developers so most companies are happy to get it behind them.

if you got an orion or quantum 4848, you could see the computer (and that interface) as your tape machine, doing all of your mixing on the console. just connect direct outs of all your channels to the line ins of the interface, and line outs of the interface to tape returns on the console
Old 13th November 2018
  #7
Gear Head
It seems like the back of my board doesn't have anyway getting into the interface. I have an out on each track, but only via baseband audio cable.

I may be missing something, but what's the connection to an Orion, Presonus or even RME interface?

Back can be seen on this page:
Midas Venice F32 |

Is there another piece of gear I'm missing or cabling?

Thanks for the help.
Old 13th November 2018
  #8
Gear Head
Well, a little self research an IRL help has lead me to knowing that I'd need DB25 > XLR cables.

So to "upgrade" and "future proof", I'd need the following:

- New Mac Laptop - Approx $2500
- AD/DA - $1500 - $2500
- DB25 to XLR Cables - $200

So now I face the problem of whether I just scrap it all and get another board, but analog wise there's nothing below 10 grand that I can see, I definitely don't have that kind of money. I suppose either way I'd be getting a new computer and AD/DA anyway. Sigh.

Luckily I can keep pushing as is, but having an aging computer and a desk that isn't going to keep up with the times on the digital side isn't a fun place to be. Did I mention my headphone jack is growing a hum? Argh.

Any wild card ideas on gear are definitely welcome. I just got here but this place has been great so far for my little obscure board problem.
Old 13th November 2018
  #9
Gear Head
 

You would want to use the 1/4" TRS DIRECT OUTs on each channel to go from your board into your new interface. Likewise, going from your interface you would use the 1/4" TRS LINE INPUT connections on the Midas.

MOTU also makes great inexpensive AD/DA boxes which can handle many inputs/outputs.
Old 13th November 2018
  #10
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by K.Steeze View Post
You would want to use the 1/4" TRS DIRECT OUTs on each channel to go from your board into your new interface. Likewise, going from your interface you would use the 1/4" TRS LINE INPUT connections on the Midas.

MOTU also makes great inexpensive AD/DA boxes which can handle many inputs/outputs.
Sorry to jump in but I have an Midas Venice F16 and I was looking into this as a solution, ie using direct outs. However I can’t figure out how to get the stereo channels out to the interface as it appears only mono channels have direct outs?
Old 13th November 2018
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Funny Cat's Avatar
Maybe you could purchase a PCIe Fireward card for the new computer? I switched to windows a couple years back and my machine built by a PC audio company did not come with FW. I purchased one as an add on and had the company install and test it. There are also Thunderbolt to FW adapters that are pretty inexpensive. Good luck.
Old 14th November 2018
  #12
Gear Nut
 

You have indeed been using AD/DA in your studio—it’s just been built into your board. If you want to keep your current workflow and upgrade your computer, getting external AD/DA would allow you to do so easily. If you got two Motu 16A interfaces, for example, you’d just hook up the trs outs from your board to the inputs of the two 16As, and the outs from the 16As to your board.
Old 14th November 2018
  #13
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSwaltz View Post
You have indeed been using AD/DA in your studio—it’s just been built into your board. If you want to keep your current workflow and upgrade your computer, getting external AD/DA would allow you to do so easily. If you got two Motu 16A interfaces, for example, you’d just hook up the trs outs from your board to the inputs of the two 16As, and the outs from the 16As to your board.
Hi are you able to indicate how he would patch the stereo channels since there are no direct outs ? Is there another way I am missing?
Old 14th November 2018
  #14
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagneticSun View Post
Hi are you able to indicate how he would patch the stereo channels since there are no direct outs ? Is there another way I am missing?
If you look at the photo OP linked to, you will see the board has direct outs on each chanel.
Old 14th November 2018
  #15
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
I have a couple of FireWire PCIe cards in my PC builds so I can run legacy hardware, for example the UAD Satellite FireWire and formerly the Focusrite Saffire interfaces.

If you use a home built PC it gives you this option. Not sure if newer Apple computers are able to upgrade/modify in any way.

Presonus Quantum is a good answer, I use one as my main interface right now.
Old 14th November 2018
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Funny Cat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
I have a couple of FireWire PCIe cards in my PC builds so I can run legacy hardware, for example the UAD Satellite FireWire and formerly the Focusrite Saffire interfaces.

If you use a home built PC it gives you this option. Not sure if newer Apple computers are able to upgrade/modify in any way.

Presonus Quantum is a good answer, I use one as my main interface right now.

I agree. As I mentioned earlier it's really easy to implement. I'm not sure why the OP isn't researching this already. A good PCIe Firewire card will cost around $50 bucks. Also, if the OP is on a Mac...don't they come standard with Thunderbolt connections? A Thunderbolt to FW adapter will put the OP back all of $29.00 bucks. Purchasing 32 channels of ADDA in addition to all the cabling he/she will need could cost anywhere from $2,000 to $10,000 dollars. It's really a no brain'er!

https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Thunder...rewire+adapter


.
Attached Thumbnails
I Mix on a Midas F32 Board, what do I do now??? (2018)-apple-thunderbolt-firewire-adapter.jpg  
Old 15th November 2018
  #17
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSwaltz View Post
If you look at the photo OP linked to, you will see the board has direct outs on each chanel.
For the mono channels correct but channels 25-32 don’t have direct outs
Old 15th November 2018
  #18
Gear Head
Thanks to everyone responding, I didn't realize these were coming in or I would have popped back in sooner.

As far as adding a FW card to a new computer, that will still leave me dependent on Midas to update their Drivers as new versions of the OS come out, which they don't seem willing to do. So that's out as far as I'm concerned.

I'm going to do a deeper dive on Ad/Da converters.

I'm looking at Apogee, Antelope and MOTU. Haven't heard good things about the Presonus outside of this thread to be honest. Any other brands/model suggestions welcome....

I'm basically looking for what would be 32 outputs from Pro Tools into the board and just need a stereo pair back to Pro Tools from it. I don't do any band tracking currently that would require anything more. I just need to mix on the board and drop a stereo stripe back onto the pro tools file.
Old 16th November 2018
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Funny Cat's Avatar
I'm curious OP, is this computer for browsing and surfing also? Or is it just for music production? If the latter I wouldn't be worried about updating my OS. Most of the guys I know doing this seriously don't touch their OS once they get things setup and working.

I do understand your concerns regarding OS updates though. When I was on a Mac, each and every time I updated my OS something "broke", lol. I learned my lesson the hard way. Shucks, I'm using Windows 7 on my PC and don't ever intend to update, lol.

The new MOTUS get high praise around these parts and there are some guys making really great music that I've heard (even on GS) using them. I plan on getting some MOTU AVB converters myself eventually but if your internet ever goes down you can't create cue-mixes! I heard it can be a bit sluggish as well but the sound is superb. Good luck!
Old 18th November 2018
  #20
Gear Head
I'm not as interested in updating every upgrade as they come out, because that usually leads to drama as you said.

But I am interested in updating every few years to make sure I'm up to date with Pro Tools and not several versions behind. I had to make the jump from 8 to 11 a few years ago which then required me adding more RAM to my 2008 era G5 Tower.

Now that I'm running that same 10 year old Tower I'm finally noticing it react oddly at times and would like to get myself into modern times with a quality lap top that I can plug and play with. I could use it to do some word processing and internet in the living room and then plug it into my studio and run pro tools. Beyond that I don't need much and don't do any other computing.

I also hate staving off the inevitable. If "some day" I'm going to be stuck in a time warp, I'd rather just take care of it asap, because I may be broker in the future. I have a friend still running PT 6 that now needs to upgrade from scratch, I don't want to be in that situation.

Thanks.
Old 29th November 2019
  #21
Here for the gear
 

I completely understand your quandary, as I’ve enjoyed using my F32 for the last 5 years with a late 2012 man mini. There’s no guarantees or warranty of course at this point either.
I’ve been doing this since Gerald Ford stumbked into the White house, back whenTascam was in its incipient stages of its development of the home recording revolution...So, if we look on the bright side, all technology is aging at increasing rates as development accelerates. Any “upgrade” would be subject to an even faster obsolescence than the f32 set-up.
Using f32/mac connection as long as possible while backing up your tracks would be my approach. Entropy and manufacturers survival drive the market, musicians, composers -and engineers steer the creative side. Don’t allow upgrade fear too much sway, everything is on the way out, as soon as it’s in.
best of luck, the music will always find a way to be heard

Last edited by ConstantVoltage; 29th November 2019 at 10:30 PM.. Reason: Spelling and grammar faux pas
Old 5th December 2019
  #22
Gear Nut
 

There is a solution that worked for me and my 2018 iMac:

First, get an OWC Thunderbolt 3 board to give your new system a firewire connection. Then follow this driver installation instruction:

1. Uninstall the current firmware.

2. Boot into OS X Utilities window, turn off SIP in Terminal and restart the machine.

3. Install the FW software again.

4. Boot into OS X Utilities window, turn on SIP

You should now be able to see the device in the Midas software.
Old 4 days ago
  #23
Gear Head
I use the f24 strictly analog with MOTU 16A and ultralight mk4, all Sabre32 I/O. Don’t need the direct outs, just recording one thing at a time but it all sounds great, and no latency
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