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$3438 to spend-Analog/UAD/Slate- Help to convince me to choose one option Condenser Microphones
View Poll Results: Final Route ?
Slate
0 Votes - 0%
UAD
3 Votes - 30.00%
Analog
7 Votes - 70.00%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

Old 12th October 2018
  #1
Here for the gear
 

$3438 to spend-Analog/UAD/Slate- Help to convince me to choose one option

Hi, i am from India. For my home studio. I have managed to save around $3438, thinking to upgrade gear. Already have a decent acoustic treatment done. Most of the time mixing will be on headphones.
I have a spare AT 2020 and Behringer B1 mic.

Gear focus is for lead vocal, acoustic and electric guitar.. I am on Windows 10 PC with AMD FX 8350(octa core) processor. Latency is a key priority too. Thats why not choosing Audient interface.

These are the options i am thinking (costs as per Indian sellers):

1)Slate Digital- Single VRS 8 + ML-1 Bundle ($3438). : Going Digital all way along with no hardware preamp/compressor/eq.(have to use exisiting pair of mics or anyhow stretch and get one ML-2)

2)Slate Digital- VMS package(preamp+ Ml-1)-$1370 for + $690 Clarett 4Pre USB for A/D conversion and interface only + Stereo Pair of ML-2 ($350) = $2410.

3)Universal Audio- APOLLO TWIN USB ($1163) + UAD-2 SATELLITE USB 3 OCTO CORE ($1211) + AKG C414 or stereo pair of AKG C214 (~$800) = $3174.

4) Analog Hardware- AKG C414 or Stereo Pair of AKG C214 (~$800) + Warm Audio WA 73 Preamp& EQ ($936) + Clarett 4Pre USB ($690) + Warm Audio 2A- $1085= ~$3438


Naming AKG 214/414 here because i tried a while ago on my vocals and guitars. It was nice.


It won't be feasible to go to a big studio(distance), rent and demo. Thats why asking for final option here. I have here heard good about every product, i too know going either way won't stop me from making good music but when its coming to final payment time, its really hard to choose one way. Because that will stay for quite a few years.

Slate or Uad, are really their preamps and compressors equal or better than warm audio analog hardwares(even on extreme settings) ? I dont want to feel like a little compromise.

Will be nice if respective these companies can convince me quality wise (in a positive way )with fresh new examples, why should i go with them only.

I want the best pre-amp,compressor,A/D converters and lowest stable latency for 2-3 channels.
Old 13th October 2018
  #2
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vishnu Verma View Post
Hi, i am from India. For my home studio. I have managed to save around $3438, thinking to upgrade gear.
oh, too bad, I had the perfect thing for you but it costs $3439!

Quote:
Will be nice if respective these companies can convince me quality wise (in a positive way )with fresh new examples,
the "fresh new examples" will not help. All of these companies have already spent a small fortune on demos and YouTubes to convince you of their worthiness. The existing examples are not "stale" or "old" they are simply demos online which you acknowledge yourself is inferior to going to a studio and trying these devices in a hands-on situation.

If "clips" are unsatisfying, why should you think that "more clips" will change that?


Quote:
why should i go with them only.
why should you go with one company "only"? This is an odd idea you have in your head, but nobody is forcing you to do things this extreme way. Instead of buying all hardware you might one piece but also some plug-ins. Instead of buying this company's bundle, you might buy a few plugs from them and a few plugs from someone else. What is your hurry to buy everything at once? Why not get something with a good preamp and a good mic, and a few plug-ins, and then add more hardware and more plugs later down the line after you have been working for a while and have a better idea of what might be "missing"?

Quote:
Slate or Uad, are really their preamps and compressors equal or better than warm audio analog hardwares
I have a UAD system, but I also own some Slate plug-ins that I really like. I have some great hardware units that are the originals of the things that companies like Warm are copying. They all have their place.

There is more going on than sonic "equality" in the hardware vs software choice. You can use a hardware compressor on the way in, but you only have one. Forget stereo pairs, etc. Some of the software compressors are very nice, and there is tremendous variety and of course plenty of instances. ONE hardware compressor may be lovely for tracking, but you obviously don't have the budget for hardware for mixdown.

That means you will have to 'nail' your hardware effects on the way in. That takes experience, because many of these things are difficult or impossible to undo. Experience that you could develop by tracking dry and using the plug-ins to mix with. You can also get that experience by screwing up with hardware, but that means those recordings are, well, screwed up.

You strike me as someone who has already read a lot of comments about this specific gear. Now you are just going to get more of the same, and of course everybody will disagree with each other, people will suggest tons of units not on your list, and you still will have to make up your own mind. If I were you, I would not be in a giant hurry to spend all the money at once, or in a big rush to go All In on this 'plan' - or All In on the other 'plan'.

I will say this - if you focus on a good mic and good preamp, you will never regret it.
Old 13th October 2018
  #3
Here for the gear
 

Hi, $3438 being specific as it converts to Rs 2,50,000 in Indian Rupees(round figure).

I really appreciate your replies and I understand your core point to focus on preamp, mics.

I would like to say that's exactly my focus on.

If you read properly about the options, except UAD's Satallite octo core one..

Rest are just best possible current combinations of microphones, preamps and audio interface for A/D conversion existing in market and going with my budget.

In 4th with Analog, I have just added a WA-2A compressor for tracking to slightly level out peaks and dynamics before entering DAW + color the vocals..

No where I have talked about plugins bundle all in one to buy in hurry.

By bundle I have clearly written- combination of mic+preamp+compressor(if)+ A/D converting Audio interface.


It's poor that due to high taxes and duties, every product is around 30-35% at higher selling price in India.

So even any good preamp + audio interface + mic you suggest, 1000$+700$+800$= 2500$, In India I have to pay minimum!!

And it's obvious considering budget and technology, if I go with VRS8/VMS interface, adding external preamp will disrupt the workflow.
Similar with UAD..(If I leave console option in Windows, latency is high).

Or with Analog option: If I go with that route, using Unison or VRS8/VMS will not be worthier.. That's why excluded even ML-1.. And instead chose AKG C414.

With very careful study I have finalised these options.

And for that exact reason i asked new examples as I haven't heard anywhere Slate's FG 73 vs UAD 1073 vs Warm Audio 73 on the same source with subtle and extreme settings.
Would really appreciate if you can share..

Because if a hardware emulation of preamp + compressor will have sonic edge, depth over software emulations for tracked vocals and guitar even by 10-12%, it will be no brainier to choose 4th option..

Help me one.
Old 13th October 2018
  #4
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vishnu Verma View Post
Hi, $3438 being specific as it converts to Rs 2,50,000 in Indian Rupees(round figure).
OK I get it now. Cultural miscommunication. Speaking of which, here in America, two hundred and fifty thousand is written:
250,000
Putting that 2 to the left of the comma would make an American think you are trying to represent 2 million. To my eyes, the placement of the comma tends to override the amount of digits.

Quote:
And for that exact reason i asked new examples as I haven't heard anywhere Slate's FG 73 vs UAD 1073 vs Warm Audio 73 on the same source with subtle and extreme settings.
Would really appreciate if you can share..
There are tools like the Clip-a-lator that compare multiple hardware units on the same source. But software is not included. In the end, clips on line tell you very little. Only when you have something in your studio, and use it every day will you begin to understand its personality. Software you can download the demos and use it for 2 weeks.

Quote:
Because if a hardware emulation of preamp + compressor will have sonic edge, depth over software emulations
What will have a greater effect on your sonic bottom line? ONE hardware EQ for tracking? Or a great software EQ on every channel at mixdown? How about putting the cash difference towards getting a better mic and preamp? Or more mics? Nobody can say, but you.
Quote:
for tracked vocals and guitar even by 10-12%
I think Seinfeld was 12% funnier than Friends. I think sneakers are 11% more comfortable than leather shoes. Even if both people agree on which one is better, one person's "10% better" is another person's "twice as good!"
Old 23rd October 2018
  #5
Lives for gear
 

A video clip in German which shows a figure of eight on a vocal recording with the Sphere L22 vs a Neumann U87ai and a Twin.

YouTube

How much do vendors ask for a Sphere L22 in India now?

Mics before any other piece of equipment as mentioned before.
Old 14th November 2018
  #6
Gear Guru
Why wouldn't you do a subscription to Slate and save your money for specific needs that crop up. I'd throw Kush subscription in the equation and buy Soundtoys . Really all you need!
Old 15th November 2018
  #7
Lives for gear
 
cheu78's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vishnu Verma View Post
Hi, i am from India. For my home studio. I have managed to save around $3438, thinking to upgrade gear. Already have a decent acoustic treatment done. Most of the time mixing will be on headphones.
I have a spare AT 2020 and Behringer B1 mic.

Gear focus is for lead vocal, acoustic and electric guitar.. I am on Windows 10 PC with AMD FX 8350(octa core) processor. Latency is a key priority too. Thats why not choosing Audient interface.

These are the options i am thinking (costs as per Indian sellers):

1)Slate Digital- Single VRS 8 + ML-1 Bundle ($3438). : Going Digital all way along with no hardware preamp/compressor/eq.(have to use exisiting pair of mics or anyhow stretch and get one ML-2)

2)Slate Digital- VMS package(preamp+ Ml-1)-$1370 for + $690 Clarett 4Pre USB for A/D conversion and interface only + Stereo Pair of ML-2 ($350) = $2410.

3)Universal Audio- APOLLO TWIN USB ($1163) + UAD-2 SATELLITE USB 3 OCTO CORE ($1211) + AKG C414 or stereo pair of AKG C214 (~$800) = $3174.

4) Analog Hardware- AKG C414 or Stereo Pair of AKG C214 (~$800) + Warm Audio WA 73 Preamp& EQ ($936) + Clarett 4Pre USB ($690) + Warm Audio 2A- $1085= ~$3438


Naming AKG 214/414 here because i tried a while ago on my vocals and guitars. It was nice.


It won't be feasible to go to a big studio(distance), rent and demo. Thats why asking for final option here. I have here heard good about every product, i too know going either way won't stop me from making good music but when its coming to final payment time, its really hard to choose one way. Because that will stay for quite a few years.

Slate or Uad, are really their preamps and compressors equal or better than warm audio analog hardwares(even on extreme settings) ? I dont want to feel like a little compromise.

Will be nice if respective these companies can convince me quality wise (in a positive way )with fresh new examples, why should i go with them only.

I want the best pre-amp,compressor,A/D converters and lowest stable latency for 2-3 channels.
I'd suggest to get better mics than those akg's..
On the budget the AT 4047 or 4060 are good workhorses, Lewitt LCT940 apparently too (fet and tube in the same mic..quite clever), also the Shure ksm32 might be a candidate. I'd consider also the Sanken CU-55 which is their entry level mic. Or some used old 414 are also a great choice (the ones with the lever switch, not the buttons).

An RME babyface, Sound Devices Mixpre6 (even a mixpre3 will fit) if you could live with the SD monitoring features or a Metric Halo ULN2 will probably give some of the best preamps and conversion at that price..(dunno how MH is doing with windows though). The UA twin is also a good sounding and solid choice.

Are there better mics or better preamps? Yes, but with these you'll be able to get quite far imho. They do sound pretty good, let's say that the quality of these tools shouldn't stop you from getting GREAT results. I might suggest you to get also an sm57 for your el gtrs (in case you don't own one yet).

Get the best mics you could buy and a good, solid interface.



Cheu
Old 15th November 2018
  #8
Gear Guru
I second the MixPre6 recommendation. Pres and conversion are stellar. Get your tracking down. Some great mics available under $1K. NoHype ribbon, Pearlman TM2, Copperhead, Bock, etc.....I'd also vote for the RME since it's stable if you go that route. Get subscriptions as above and make some money before investing in a plug in suite.....
Old 17th November 2018
  #9
Lives for gear
you got money spend on analog hardware please, anything digital software **** worth nothing and out of date so damn fast.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #10
Lives for gear
I agree with ardis.

For a first good vocal mic, I suggest AA-CM67se or CM48 for even less cash. Advanced Aduio. If you like the 414 sound, get the AA-CM414. It's a better mic than the current AKG 414.

Advanced Audio Microphones - Professional microphones at affordable prices. We provide studio quality mics for the home and pro recording industry.

I have a bunch of his mic's and they are fantastic bang/buck.

For the cash, if you end up with converters without preamps, the GAP73 is great bang/buck.

For preamps you should at least look here to learn about things:
ReviveAudio.com

This site has samples of many mic's
Microphone Database | Audio Recording News | RecordingHacks


Buy used all you can except for ribbon mic's and speakers. In those two area's you cant trust used to be right.

As you get started, all EQ and compression and effects will happen on the CPU because it's cheap.

As you buy things, try to not get boxed in. Assume things will grow slowly over time. Plan ahead to save cash in the long run.

A single great chain for vocals is very important. One good mic, and one good preamps can do wonders.

What's the next step?. Changing the mic!. One dynamic, One Condenser, and One ribbon gives you the three basic common mic types. Each has it's place.

an SM57 is a must. Watch out for cheap knock off's when buying used.

I suggest the following starting mic locker:
Can have all of this for $1K
SM57 Moving coil
CM48 LDC tube or CM414 solid state.
CM3 SDC
BIV Ribbon

If you are doing all vocal work in difficult environments, an announcer mic could be right: SM7B, RE-20, PR40

And the new kid on the block. the Shure KSM8. It's the 50 year update to the SM58. Best mic in the world to hand to a person who does not know how to use a mic.

Lots to learn before you spend your cash. Make your own choices after learning what's out there.

Last edited by elegentdrum; 4 weeks ago at 02:07 AM..
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