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SM57 on a vintage Deluxe Reverb amp
Old 13th August 2018
  #1
Gear Nut
 

SM57 on a vintage Deluxe Reverb amp

Wondering what are your thoughts on recording cleans and distorted guitars with this combo, as in the thread title.

Chain = 1073 > Drawmer 1978 > Fireface UFX ll > DAW

How far away would you position the mic from the amp? Close with low gain on the pre, or some distance with higher gain on the pre?

My concern is that I'm getting a bit 'grainy" tone, if that's the word to describe it .. grainy as opposed to a violin like tone (Brian May alike).

My room is moderately treated.

What is your practice when using a SM57 on an electric guitar ..?!



Old 13th August 2018
  #2
Lives for gear
 

You didn't post an example of the sound. The graininess can be caused by a dozen different causes. Some can be easily identified and others require you to use some deductive reasoning to rule them out through a process of elimination. Are you expecting people to list every possibility for you without giving them a sample of what you're dealing with?

Wanting to sound like someone else is never going to happen. Even if Brian May handed you his guitar and you played through his rig, you'd never sound identical to the man. Your focus should be on getting the best sound from the gear you own and playing the best you possibly can with that gear. That's what makes every player unique.


I'd suggest you get a set of headphones and monitor the mic, then move the mic and tweak the settings till you get the best sound you possibly can.
If that doesn't do the job, get a different guitar, amp or pedals till it does.

Also realize, a single guitar track, isn't a full mix. Guitar is only one of several in a recording and it only covers certain frequencies.
People who are new to recording often seek the wrong paths when they first start recording. The don't realize a guitar is Supposed to have limited frequency response. It takes them awhile to realize each instrument in a recording produces part of the entire response form 20 ~ 20Khz and guitar is only the midrange frequencies. You need cymbals to get the highs, bass and kick for the lows before the guitar even begins to fit in and sound normal. If you record the guitar solo its supposed to sound narrow in sound.

Your graininess may be the result of trying to make it sound bigger then it needs to be. Have no idea why you'd need to use the 1073 or the Drawmer on guitar. Try using the Fireface preamp for the mic and see what you get. if you have the amp dialed up properly you shouldn't need anything else until you begin mixing.
You could use the 1073 as a preamp but guitar typically doesn't need allot of front end enhancement. If you want to use compression you should be using a pedal before your amp, not a compressor on the mic after the amp. All you'll do is boost unwanted noise doing that.
Old 13th August 2018
  #3
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Do you own other mics? I hate SM57s and graininess is a big part of why. If you do not have other mics, move the one you have. out near the edge will gett a rounder tone than near the center. Backing it off can add some air.

You should also think aobut how you're playing and how the amp is dialed in. Often in recording a bet less gain works better for the mic and preamp. It will still have grit if you back it off a bit (if you're wanting grit). You can also try backing off the preamp gain and turning up the output if that makes the signal too low. Most guitar amps, even at moderate settings, don't need a ton of mic pre gain.
Old 13th August 2018
  #4
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kakao View Post
What is your practice when using a SM57 on an electric guitar ..?!
Do you have any other mics?
Old 13th August 2018
  #5
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bowzin's Avatar
When I'm using a Deluxe Reverb and SM57... I back off the bass on the amp, and place the SM57 off to one side of the cone, jammed into the grill. May not win any awards but works more often than not, the SM57 isn't my favorite mic but it is what it is. If you like the sound and response of the amp controls, then leave them for now and just try moving the mic around until it sounds good. If you're patient with mic placement, good things happen, and all future steps are miraculously easier.

It may not be obvious where it sounds best, as an amplifier is not one sound, there's a lot going on depending on where an ear/microphone is located around an amp. The closer and more on-axis to the cone of the speaker (mic pointed straight at the cone) the brighter/sharper/spankier the sound. So the way that I like my amp settings... sticking an SM57 jammed right smack in the middle of a speaker is usually way, way too bright/sharp. So personally if I have an SM57 and 10 seconds with no time at all to experiment, I jam it up in the grill off to the side of the cone, typically pointing perpendicular to the amp to start, but then might experiment with angling slightly in or out, or moving it around.

You can EQ the mic simply by placement:

For treble: The closer, more on-axis to the amp's speaker cone, the brighter/sharper. So if it's too dull... cheat the mic placement toward the bright cone and it will get brighter/spankier. If it's too bright, try cheating the placement away from the cone.

For bass: The SM57 exhibits proximity effect, so the closer it is to a source, the more bass build-up there is, so if it's too bassy. Either turn down the bass on the amp or move the SM57 back an inch at a time. If it's not bassy enough, consider moving the SM57 a little tighter to take advantage of proximity effect.

Also consider the closer to the speaker, the more detail overall that’s going to be picked up. This can be a cause of frustration, because one guitar/amp rig might be really warm and rounded-off enough that close-micing picks up just enough detail to sound great, but another rig might be exhibiting way too much brightness and detail to where it sounds unnatural close-mic’ed. We don't usually listen to guitar amps with our heads directly in front of them, on-axis.

So if there's too much hyper-detail, try moving the mic back 3 inches, 6 inches, a foot, 18 inches, 2 feet, etc. This will gradually introduce more room sound and less direct source, which can help things resolve a little better by backing off. Or make it sound more like what the guitarist is used to (we're normally used to hearing the guitar amp blasting our feet!). A lot of harsh amps may tend to work better if backed off, and maybe mic'd off to the side or above a bit (again the less on-axis, the less treble, broadly speaking), or any other strategy that simply lets the amp "resolve" a bit in the room before the mic picks it up. Sometimes the SM57 is a little gritty/harsh in the mids, so backing off a little bit and not mic'ing directly on-axis can kind of blur that area more.

My go-to mic for my Deluxe Reverb is a Sennheiser 441, but I used a 421 for many years and it wasn't perfect but I liked it more than an SM57. There's a ton of other options too, it's a relatively forgiving source to mic, don't limit yourself to just the SM57.

My buddy just got the Sennheiser E906 that he's excited about, I haven't had a chance to play with it yet, but that has three different voicings (normal, bright, and dark). I have an E609 (cheaper, no voicing options) and it's ok but nothing special in my opinion. Gets used a lot simply for how easy it is to drape in front of an amp. I'm really curious to see if the E906 is a big improvement, and how it does on snare too.

Good luck, hope you get some ideas.
Old 13th August 2018
  #6
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowzin View Post
The SM57 exhibits proximity effect, so the closer it is to a source, the more bass build-up there is, so if it's too bassy. Either turn down the bass on the amp or move the SM57 back an inch at a time. If it's not bassy enough, consider moving the SM57 a little tighter to take advantage of proximity effect.
You also have to remember that the speaker cone is, well, a cone. The closest you can get the mic to it is right at the edge.
Old 13th August 2018
  #7
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GreenNeedle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kakao View Post
Wondering what are your thoughts on recording cleans and distorted guitars with this combo, as in the thread title.

Chain = 1073 > Drawmer 1978 > Fireface UFX ll > DAW

How far away would you position the mic from the amp? Close with low gain on the pre, or some distance with higher gain on the pre?

My concern is that I'm getting a bit 'grainy" tone, if that's the word to describe it .. grainy as opposed to a violin like tone (Brian May alike).

My room is moderately treated.

What is your practice when using a SM57 on an electric guitar ..?!



Well a deluxe is a different animal then a vox(brian may).
Anywho, move the 57 closer to the edge of the speaker for a softer tone, or get a good ribbon mic.
The pre will make an enormous difference especially on a clean sound and you will need a good compressor or put it through one in the box(a varimu type or LA3a).
I would run the bass on the amp almost full if its a 64 style deluxe and i turn the treble almost right off on mine or 3 ish depending on the guitar.

Also your speaker will add some harshy stuff if its ceramic, you may like an alnico more, they sound softer.

The mic distance from the amp is determined when you listen to the gtr sound in context. Close sounds close, farther gives you more space and depth. Listen to Zeppelin.

What guitar are you using?
Old 14th August 2018
  #8
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kakao View Post
...grainy as opposed to a violin like tone...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenNeedle View Post
...get a good ribbon mic...
that was my first thought!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kakao
What is your practice when using a SM57 on an electric guitar ..?!
trying to remember where I left my ribbon mic
Quote:
How far away would you position the mic from the amp? Close with low gain on the pre, or some distance with higher gain on the pre?
in all seriousness, whichever mic you use, a matter of even a few inches or a few degrees will change the sound you are getting considerably. The only meaningful "advice" is to experiment and see what works. And changing the actual mic
... well...
Some people end up making a firm decision on their "favorite" placements and remember them. Others have a different goal for every track. I like to grab a pair of isolating phones and as wrgkmc said, move the mic around while the guitarist plays. If you are also the guitarist, it will obviously have to be more of a start-and-stop trial and error process.

The "error" part is IMO essential to ending up with your target guitar sound.
Old 14th August 2018
  #9
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vernier's Avatar
1073, SM57 and Fender usually works in a mix.
Old 14th August 2018
  #10
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrgkmc View Post

Wanting to sound like someone else is never going to happen. Even if Brian May handed you his guitar and you played through his rig, you'd never sound identical to the man. Your focus should be on getting the best sound from the gear you own and playing the best you possibly can with that gear. That's what makes every player unique.


I'd suggest you get a set of headphones and monitor the mic, then move the mic and tweak the settings till you get the best sound you possibly can.
If that doesn't do the job, get a different guitar, amp or pedals till it does.

Have no idea why you'd need to use the 1073 or the Drawmer on guitar. Try using the Fireface preamp for the mic and see what you get.

I don't want to sound like Brian May, it was just an example of the 'violin' like tone, as opposed to the one I've got from the sm57.
I thought that using the 1073 with the mic would be a good idea, as the 1073 has better pre-amps than the RME, I believe ..?! With just a tad of compression I wanted to round the overall tone before hitting the converters.

I know, experimenting is the key, and I'll spend some serious time to do so. Thank you for your input, will report back soon.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
Do you own other mics? You can also try backing off the preamp gain and turning up the output if that makes the signal too low. Most guitar amps, even at moderate settings, don't need a ton of mic pre gain.


I also have a TLM 103 and 2x KM184's. The TLM is getting me close to what I want, but wanted to track with both TLM and 57 at the same time, in order to make a mixture of the 2, to complement each other, if that's the way ..







Quote:
Originally Posted by bowzin View Post
When I'm using a Deluxe Reverb and SM57... I back off the bass on the amp, and place the SM57 off to one side of the cone, jammed into the grill. May not win any awards but works more often than not, the SM57 isn't my favorite mic but it is what it is. If you like the sound and response of the amp controls, then leave them for now and just try moving the mic around until it sounds good. If you're patient with mic placement, good things happen, and all future steps are miraculously easier.


You can EQ the mic simply by placement:

Good luck, hope you get some ideas.


Plenty of ideas there, thanks, I need to work a lot with all this to achieve what I want, and I know well what it is - just the tone that I already hear from the amp, but somehow the 57 makes it sound different and unattractive to me.





Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenNeedle View Post
The mic distance from the amp is determined when you listen to the gtr sound in context. Close sounds close, farther gives you more space and depth. Listen to Zeppelin.

What guitar are you using?

My amp is an original 1966 BF .. awesome sounding amp.
For this project I'm using a Strat with 1971 T-top in the bridge

I know, I need more time to try all the options regarding mic placement and other variables.








Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
that was my first thought!

trying to remember where I left my ribbon mic

in all seriousness, whichever mic you use, a matter of even a few inches or a few degrees will change the sound you are getting considerably. The only meaningful "advice" is to experiment and see what works. And changing the actual mic
... well...
Some people end up making a firm decision on their "favorite" placements and remember them. Others have a different goal for every track. I like to grab a pair of isolating phones and as wrgkmc said, move the mic around while the guitarist plays. If you are also the guitarist, it will obviously have to be more of a start-and-stop trial and error process.

The "error" part is IMO essential to ending up with your target guitar sound.

Thank you for this, it will take some time until i get there .. or maybe I realize that 57 is not my cup of tea, and I start looking at a ribon mics .. But firstly i need to test the 57 to the bone, as suggested by everyone in this thread.


Old 14th August 2018
  #11
Lives for gear
 

Have you tried a Tube screamer with that amp? From what you been describing its exactly what you need.

The trick to using a Tube screamer is to first gain the amp up to where it begins to break up. Then use the tube screamer to push it the rest of the way.
The pedal removes some lows and boosts the mids a bit. If you go with a lower gain setting you get a smooth SRV type blues tone. Gained up more it gives you a more classic rock lead tone with a violin type sustain.

Of course the guitar you use can also make a huge difference in tone too. You can expect a Guitar with Hot wound HB pickups and Mahogany body/neck to sound much darker then a Tele with vintage pickups which have a tremendous treble spank. You have to adapt the instrument to the amp using whatever it takes to get you there and it's exactly why no one can give you specific directions on getting the ideal sound. I have about 40 Guitars and basses I've either built or bought over the years. Some which have similar pickups may not need as much tweaking when I switch instruments. Others are as polar opposite as it gets. Doesn't matter what amp or mic setting I have I typically need to re-tweak things to make them work.

By the way they make excellent clones of the TS these days. There's no need to spend top dollar on such a simple pedal design. So long as it uses the same op amp and diodes the sound will be very close to an original. I've bought several over the years and the Joyo Version is one of the best budget clones made. They cost $30 new and you can find them lower used. Amazon.com: Joyo JF-01 Vintage Overdrive Guitar Effect Pedal with True Bypass: Musical Instruments I love the way a Fender amp records with one. I typically set the amp with just a little hair for the chords and use the pedals to push it to drive. Works fantastic.

If you want to use amp drive only it typically takes some guitar/amp tweaking and refining to make the pair to work together well. Sometimes its the Tubes, Tube bias, Amp Mods like Blackfacing, Master Volume, Mid Boost switch, etc. It may be finding the right speaker, right guitar to match, the Instrument setup, Pickup choice, even the string selection can make all the difference when it comes to sustain. Example: Gretsch 6120 ‘Chet Atkins’ | Pete Townshend’s Guitar Gear | Whotabs Then read this: 1959 Fender Bandmaster Amplifier | Pete Townshend’s Guitar Gear | Whotabs

When you've played a guitar through the ideal rig and you give it that chord stroke and get that "Ker---- rang" out of the amp, you know when you got "THE" ideal sound.

If you don't have that sound just playing through the amp live, don't expect to get it when recording. There is "not no where" "not no how" you can fake great tube tone. If the rig hasn't got it Its not going to matter what mic you use or how good your recording/mixing technique is. If the amp does have it, you can often get away with murder when it comes to mic placement. Let me stress, the instrument type and setup is just as big a factor as the amp is. They all work together with the speaker. if one isn't at fault you can bet without doubt its going to be one of the others.

The mic itself is small potatoes in comparison. Most mics can simply be EQed mixing to sound the way you need them. I used SM57's for a good 30 years on recording amps. They have the trait of coloring the guitar signal with a nearly ideal frequency curve. They add a bump in the 4~5Khz range and roll off above 12KHz, and a roll off at 150Hz all of which make the guitar sit ideally in a mix. You typically don't need to do much besides maybe giving it a presence boost which makes getting a decent guitar sound within the context of a mix very easy. Anyone who cant probably doesn't have a mic issue, something else is likely causing problems.

In recent years, I switched the mics I use, mostly out of boredom. I got tired of the same old sound. Not that it was bad, just predictable.
I didn't need to spend a gazillion dollars finding alternative mics either. I have plenty of excellent mics I can use but for everyday use I wanted something that could take a beating without worrying about it. I would up spending half as much too. I retired my SM57's to the drum set and used a couple of these instead.



You'd think a $40 mic couldn't possibly be a step up in quality, but it actually wound up being a better guitar mic. Its built like a tank and its got a much more usable midrange coloration, at least when recording digitally. I ran one side by side with an SM57 for awhile till I was sure it would work.
Old 14th August 2018
  #12
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bowzin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kakao View Post
Plenty of ideas there, thanks, I need to work a lot with all this to achieve what I want, and I know well what it is - just the tone that I already hear from the amp, but somehow the 57 makes it sound different and unattractive to me.
Something about what you're saying here... add an AKG C414 to your search if you move on from the SM57. Could be quite useful to you, well-used on guitar amps (a good all-arounder really). A flat and mostly neutral condenser, what-you-see-is-what-you-get type of thing, excellent on guitar amps but not necessarily "forgiving" in that you kind of need to have your source sorted out (sounds like you do, nice amp!).

If you want SMOOTH then I agree about ribbon mics. Lots of options good for guitar amps especially.
Old 14th August 2018
  #13
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by vernier View Post
1073, SM57 and Fender usually works in a mix.
I really dislike the SM57, but that's just because it's limited in what it does, and there are easier, more flexible mics. You find the right spot, the SM57 is iconic. I'll caveat my dislike by pointing out that I learned to use them (actually, used nothing but SM57's for years) on cheap live gear back in the 80s. Using one on a really nice studio preamp is a different experience. A 1073 will extract everything out of an SM57 that it has to give.

Personally, I prefer a Beyer M201 over an SM57 in practically every situation. I keep an M201 in a mic stand at all times. The one exception is the classic Marshall/Celestion/API combination, which is a sound of it's own. But if I had recording to do and an SM57, I'd just get on with it. It might be a little more finnicky about the exact placement to get it to sound it's best, but it's more than just usable. Every mic is usable for something. There's a good if not great sound in there somewhere. You just have to find it.

About 6-12" out is usually where I put a dynamic, in general. But maybe you want to shove it up in the grill cloth. It all depends on what you're going for.

Also, as Vernier points out, good on it's own isn't the same thing as good in a mix. If your amp and mic sound one way, and that's all you have to work with, think about other ways to handle the mix. How well it works depends as much on the arrangement as anything else. Maybe you want more or less bass. Maybe you want the bass player to play in a different register. Maybe you want the hi-hat chick to come down with the guitar, or a big cymbal splash when you play the big chords. Listen to those old Who recordings. At times the bass is playing as much of the guitar part as the guitar.

Last edited by kafka; 14th August 2018 at 11:43 PM..
Old 16th August 2018
  #14
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrgkmc View Post
Have you tried a Tube screamer with that amp? From what you been describing its exactly what you need.

The trick to using a Tube screamer is to first gain the amp up to where it begins to break up. Then use the tube screamer to push it the rest of the way.
The pedal removes some lows and boosts the mids a bit. If you go with a lower gain setting you get a smooth SRV type blues tone. Gained up more it gives you a more classic rock lead tone with a violin type sustain.


At the moment I am using Zendrive, Zendrive 2 (tube driven) and Kin*sley Je*ter (also with a tube inside). I have the Bad Monkey somewhere too ...

I was trying with lower power from the amp and more pedal gain however wasn't so impressed whatever the mic position was. .. will test the opposite tomorrow and let you know. This amp starts breaking up at about Vol 3.5-4, then the flavor of a tube amp kicks in. I know, the beauty is right there ..

Wiggling with the sm57 I found that 5" from the grill cloth, at the edge of the speaker, 30 degrees angle, gives my some tube softness and better sustain. Will stay there for a while.

Also, different angles/positions of the mic indeed act like some sort of EQ ..

Plenty of fun in searching for my tone ..

Old 16th August 2018
  #15
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kakao View Post
At the moment I am using Zendrive, Zendrive 2 (tube driven)
I use this combination on occasion. I find the ZD2 to be more useful as a general purpose overdrive, and the ZD to be good at adding just a bit of splash to the tone. This is probably about the only situation where I'll stack dirt boxes.
Old 16th August 2018
  #16
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Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kakao View Post
At the moment I am using Zendrive, Zendrive 2 (tube driven) and Kingsley Jester (also with a tube inside). I have the Bad Monkey somewhere too ...

I was trying with lower power from the amp and more pedal gain however wasn't so impressed whatever the mic position was. .. will test the opposite tomorrow and let you know. This amp starts breaking up at about Vol 3.5-4, then the flavor of a tube amp kicks in. I know, the beauty is right there ..

Wiggling with the sm57 I found that 5" from the grill cloth, at the edge of the speaker, 30 degrees angle, gives my some tube softness and better sustain. Will stay there for a while.

Also, different angles/positions of the mic indeed act like some sort of EQ ..

Plenty of fun in searching for my tone ..

Seriously, just skip the SM57. Try an M88, or an sE ribbon that can handle being in front of an amp. Or maybe an old ev like an RE10 or RE16. They all sound better than a 57 to my ear.
Old 16th August 2018
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

57's certainly aren't my favorite mics for guitar amps, but I feel like if the source sounds good, then that chain w/ proper gain-staging, etc. should work fine. "Grainy" is definitely a thing with 57s, but I have pretty good success taming that by varying the mic's positioning to compensate (more-so than trying to dial it out with EQ).

My approach is typically to point the 57 directly at the center of the speaker first, then angle it out toward the cone's edge and push it a little closer than I tend to with other mics, because my biggest complaint is they lack some balls so using the proximity effect to add some girth might help balance out what you're hearing. If that doesn't sound cool, then I'll point it straight on, but just slide the mic stand so it's pointing straight at the outer edge of the speaker. All of this in combination with altering the EQ and gain on the amp, and often I'll introduce a pedal into the chain, if even just to utilize the EQ on it. For instance, I might put an OCD in front, barely on (gain almost all the way down, volume at unity), but then use the tone control to darken or brighten the sound a little.

Far as other mics, sE VR1 is a damn god-send for any guitar tracks, and a great bargain. I love SM7s too. I find the M88 to be hit or miss. It has a strong mid presence that doesn't always work for every amp, but when it is the right choice, it's very nice. I bet it would compliment a fender nicely.
Old 16th August 2018
  #18
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kakao View Post
Thank you for this, it will take some time until i get there .. or maybe I realize that 57 is not my cup of tea, and I start looking at a ribon mics .. But firstly i need to test the 57 to the bone, as suggested by everyone in this thread.
"everyone"?
I would say at this point in the thread the majority opinion is to try some other mics!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
Do you own other mics? I hate SM57s and graininess is a big part of why. .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Do you have any other mics?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowzin View Post
My go-to mic for my Deluxe Reverb is a Sennheiser 441, but I used a 421 for many years and it wasn't perfect but I liked it more than an SM57. ...My buddy just got the Sennheiser E906 that he's excited about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
trying to remember where I left my ribbon mic
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrgkmc View Post
You'd think a $40 mic couldn't possibly be a step up in quality, but it actually wound up being a better guitar mic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowzin View Post
... add an AKG C414 to your search... If you want SMOOTH then I agree about ribbon mics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka View Post
Personally, I prefer a Beyer M201 over an SM57 in practically every situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
Seriously, just skip the SM57. Try an M88, or an sE ribbon .... Or maybe an old ev like an RE10 or RE16. They all sound better than a 57 to my ear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggot Brain View Post
57's certainly aren't my favorite mics for guitar amps,... sE VR1 is a damn god-send for any guitar tracks, and a great bargain.
not for nothing, but your preamp is a 1073. You don't say if it is a vintage Neve or a clone or a knock-off, but to put things into perspective, many of these suggested mics are only a fraction of the cost of your preamp. .It's not like your 57 is your Big Investment. You don't have to beat your head against the wall to 'make sure' it's not for you..

oh, I left out this guy:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kakao View Post
somehow the 57 makes it sound different and unattractive to me.
Old 16th August 2018
  #19
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Drumsound's Avatar
I gotta agree with @ joeq . More than not, people are saying change the mic. Its the FIRST part of the recording chain following the source (in this case a guitar through an amp) and it should always be the first thing looked at if you like the sound of the source, but don't like the sound of the recording.
Old 18th August 2018
  #20
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GreenNeedle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
I gotta agree with @ joeq . More than not, people are saying change the mic. Its the FIRST part of the recording chain following the source (in this case a guitar through an amp) and it should always be the first thing looked at if you like the sound of the source, but don't like the sound of the recording.
A speaker change might be cheaper and fix the problem too. Alnico.
Old 18th August 2018
  #21
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenNeedle View Post
A speaker change might be cheaper and fix the problem too. Alnico.
From all appearances, the amp belongs to the OP, so yeah.

If I have a Deluxe or Princeton walk in and it's too thin for the occasion, I'll at least ask the player to try either a 4X12 Mesa cab I have handy or the alnico 12 in a Fender Concert. Most 4X12 cabs are 16 ohms and most single 12" combo amp speakers are 8 ohms, so no harm will be done, and shoving the speaker-donor amp against the wall or laying it on its back will give you more of a tight, closed-cab experience if you want it.
Old 19th August 2018
  #22
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PdotDdot's Avatar
Strat, Tele or LP into my 64 Deluxe - 57 on a 45 degree angle pointing at the ceneter of the cone but placed more at the outer edge of the cone - within an inch of the grill. That has worked nicely for me for a long time. I tend to raise the amp off the ground but have had success with it on the floor too. I usually use an API 512C but have not found any pre that messes this up as at least for me, this is an iron clad go to method.
Old 19th August 2018
  #23
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Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenNeedle View Post
A speaker change might be cheaper and fix the problem too. Alnico.
I get the impression that the OP likes the sound at the amp, but not in recording. I could be wrong, of course.
Old 19th August 2018
  #24
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chazmar's Avatar
Are you using a 24k gold power cable??
Old 19th August 2018
  #25
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
I get the impression that the OP likes the sound at the amp, but not in recording. I could be wrong, of course.
You are right, the sound that comes from my amp is spot on, I'm just trying to capture that sound.


Just to mention the speakers I use on this amp: I have a JBL D120F, a vintage Greenback and WGS ET65. Each of these have their specific flavor, but all 3 sound really good to me. I swap speakers as needed. I have tested a couple of alnicos, but that sound is not my cup of tea for sure.

The amp is regularly serviced with fresh F&T caps every 3-4 years, and I bias this amp to about 68%. The power tubes are 6L6 (Winged C), not the standard 6V6. All Blue Mallory's in place ...

It sounds huge ..!


Old 19th August 2018
  #26
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
So you've gone that far down the rabbit hole and spent that much money on the amp, yet you're still not willing to deviate from the notion of the 57? Why is this deserving of further attention?
Old 19th August 2018
  #27
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
So you've gone that far down the rabbit hole and spent that much money on the amp, yet you're still not willing to deviate from the notion of the 57? Why is this deserving of further attention?
I remember when I stocked up on SM57s, back when I started. There was a lot of hype about it being the only mic you'll ever need, you just shove it in the grill cloth and you're done, and all these great albums were recorded with it, and if you can't do it with an SM57, and blah, blah, blah. Sure, it's cheap and durable. So you'll get through a live gig, or a few thousand live gigs with them. And they're not inherently noisy, so you can use them in the studio. And there's not a whole lot cheaper that's better (fwiw, the EV 635a is. Forgot to mention the OP should try that, which is brilliant on guitar cabs).

But not one of those reasons was "because it's a great sounding mic", or "it sounds like the source". It took me a while before I realized it wasn't me, that SM57's were a PITA unless I wanted that one honky midrange thing they do, and there are just better ways to make a recording.

People get wedded to ideas they heard before they had experience. It's like the SM7b fascination. The next time I record Michael Jackson, I'll bring one. Until then, it's a specialty mic that mostly sits on the shelf.
Old 19th August 2018
  #28
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kakao View Post
You are right, the sound that comes from my amp is spot on, I'm just trying to capture that sound.


Just to mention the speakers I use on this amp: I have a JBL D120F, a vintage Greenback and WGS ET65. Each of these have their specific flavor, but all 3 sound really good to me. I swap speakers as needed. I have tested a couple of alnicos, but that sound is not my cup of tea for sure.

The amp is regularly serviced with fresh F&T caps every 3-4 years, and I bias this amp to about 68%. The power tubes are 6L6 (Winged C), not the standard 6V6. All Blue Mallory's in place ...

It sounds huge ..!


Which again goes to my previous post. GET A BETTER MIC!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
So you've gone that far down the rabbit hole and spent that much money on the amp, yet you're still not willing to deviate from the notion of the 57? Why is this deserving of further attention?
this

Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka View Post
I remember when I stocked up on SM57s, back when I started. There was a lot of hype about it being the only mic you'll ever need, you just shove it in the grill cloth and you're done, and all these great albums were recorded with it, and if you can't do it with an SM57, and blah, blah, blah. Sure, it's cheap and durable. So you'll get through a live gig, or a few thousand live gigs with them. And they're not inherently noisy, so you can use them in the studio. And there's not a whole lot cheaper that's better (fwiw, the EV 635a is. Forgot to mention the OP should try that, which is brilliant on guitar cabs).

But not one of those reasons was "because it's a great sounding mic", or "it sounds like the source". It took me a while before I realized it wasn't me, that SM57's were a PITA unless I wanted that one honky midrange thing they do, and there are just better ways to make a recording.

People get wedded to ideas they heard before they had experience. It's like the SM7b fascination. The next time I record Michael Jackson, I'll bring one. Until then, it's a specialty mic that mostly sits on the shelf.
YES YES YES
Old 19th August 2018
  #29
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
...spent that much money on the amp... ?
and the preamp!
Old 21st August 2018
  #30
Gear Nut
 

Nah, this is not about $$$, I wanted to explore this particular mic with a bit of your help guys. (Also have u87, u47 and AKG C414EB at hand, all vintage ..).

I have tried many positions and angles with sm57 .. always middly, more or less, but it has its color. On its own .. dunno, it wouldn't work for me.

An interesting combo was with TLM103 and 57 on two channels, blending the mix with about 30% of 57 and the rest was 103. It sounded quite interesting to me. The middly 57 gave the guitar mix some cut to the distorted/overdriven tone of the amp, though not very impressive on cleans, I must admit.

Thank everyone for their contribution in this thread.


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