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Perceived Loudness - Gear that makes it SEEM louder
Old 12th July 2018
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Perceived Loudness - Gear that makes it SEEM louder

What gear can make a mix element seem louder, without an actual change in volume? Of course, compression can increase lower amplitudes, but is there anything else happening here? (2:08 mark for example)

FWIW, I'm interested in transformers and their affect on perceived volume.

Old 12th July 2018
  #2
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
FWIW, I'm interested in transformers and their affect on perceived volume.
Then you might be interested in this. The transformer's only part of the story, but it's a significant part.



Since it's "perceived volume" you're interested in, please note this bit right after the 3 Wurly clips:

"... normalized with their peaks at -8 dB, so they all have the same peak level, even if it doesn't sound like it."
Old 12th July 2018
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Then you might be interested in this. The transformer's only part of the story, but it's a significant part.

Interesting.

Those clips are peak level matched (normalized), so I'm wondering if you notice a change in levels below the peaks? (I hope the question makes sense)
Old 12th July 2018
  #4
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
Interesting.

Those clips are peak level matched (normalized), so I'm wondering if you notice a change in levels below the peaks? (I hope the question makes sense)
No idea what you mean, sorry.
Old 12th July 2018
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
No idea what you mean, sorry.
The peak levels match, but there are waveforms below the peaks. Are there major differences in the waveforms below the peaks? Are their amplitudes different?
Old 12th July 2018
  #6
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
The peak levels match, but there are waveforms below the peaks. Are there major differences in the waveforms below the peaks? Are their amplitudes different?
Tell you what -- if I can remember what the password is, I'll tick the "downloadable" box and you can put it in your DAW and see for yourself.
Old 12th July 2018
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Tell you what -- if I can remember what the password is, I'll tick the "downloadable" box and you can put it in your DAW and see for yourself.
Cool. I'm just wondering if there's an actual volume change under the peaks- like the transformers raised the overall level (RMS?).
Old 12th July 2018
  #8
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
Cool. I'm just wondering if there's an actual volume change under the peaks- like the transformers raised the overall level (RMS?).
I don't know and I'm very not-technical, at least in that way.

I'm the guy who knows that the same Thermos bottle will keep hot stuff hot and cold stuff cold, but has no idea how it can tell the difference.

But now you can download the Soundcloud file and peer into it for yourself.
Old 12th July 2018
  #9
Lives for gear
I've heard this done with mixes and seems the harmonics are perceived loudness and don't really pin the meters. I wonder whether loud mastering uses tricks like this on something like the Black Keys where distortion plays in your favor.... Fascinating!.....
Old 12th July 2018
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

Cranborne's Camden 500 pre has a mojo feature which seems to do a similar thing with perceived volume:


Old 12th July 2018
  #11
Lives for gear
 
chrischoir's Avatar
 

mid-range is very important., using a compressor/limiter to shave peaks, even arrangement and mixing
It really comes down to the Fletcher Munson curve and maximizing on its phenomena.

Some other things you can do is utilize spectrum analysis and tones to ascertain where adjustments can be made. After a while you can just rely on you ears. But you need a point of reference to help enhance instincts
Old 12th July 2018
  #12
Old 13th July 2018
  #13
Gear Maniac
 

Let me rephrase:

Level match vocal tracks from these 2 gear chains:

1- A classic transformer fiesta: 1073, U87, 1176 (with no gain reduction)

Versus

2- A transformerless soirée: rme interface preamp, 4050, no comp

Will the chain with multiple transformers SEEM louder?

ps- I just rewatched the Pensado video and realized that I got duped by his 'the uncompressed levels are higher' statement. Sure, the peak might be higher, but the overall level is higher on the compressed (and compensated) track (yes, obviously!).
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