The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Reverb. My biggest hurdle in mixing. Reverb & Delay Plugins
Old 6th July 2018
  #61
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
To follow the logic of 'recreate the space', what is that?
Ever try "worldizing," aka sticking a speaker and a couple mics outside and using "the world" for a chamber the same way you'd mic up your bathroom?
Old 6th July 2018
  #62
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Ever try "worldizing," aka sticking a speaker and a couple mics outside and using "the world" for a chamber the same way you'd mic up your bathroom?
Hmm. No I'm pretty sure I have not tried that.

edit... I think.. I need to think about this a bit :>)
Old 6th July 2018
  #63
Lives for gear
 
Unclenny's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
I like to feel the humanity in a recording
Me too. But given the state of my room I feel a need to put some clothes on my recordings as well.

Nothing fancy....maybe just a pair of shorts and a clean shirt.

Old 6th July 2018
  #64
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
Hmm. No I'm pretty sure I have not tried that.

edit... I think.. I need to think about this a bit :>)
I've done it a lot with voices and SFX in commercials and such, works great. For songs you'd need longer uninterrupted stretches without horn honks and dog barks, but you could give it a try with just a short chunk out in the back yard or whatever to see if it appeals to you.
Old 6th July 2018
  #65
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Ever try "worldizing," aka sticking a speaker and a couple mics outside and using "the world" for a chamber the same way you'd mic up your bathroom?
I posted this in another thread. It worked out great for the song. The tree line actually provides more 'bounce' than I thought it would.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
For songs you'd need longer uninterrupted stretches without horn honks and dog barks, .
This was way up in the mountains. At first I was going to print a reverb track for each individual instrument and mix them when I got home. But there were two crickets in the field, and then I had four and then I had six. You know, your typical cricket build-up. I finally did some trial and error and committed to an overall reverb mix. The few crickets I had were appropriate for the song, in fact the song opens with crickets.
Old 6th July 2018
  #66
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Ever try "worldizing," aka sticking a speaker and a couple mics outside and using "the world" for a chamber the same way you'd mic up your bathroom?
I recorded a song with the singer and acoustic guitarist on the sidewalk. It was a Sunday afternoon, and the only really loud sound (A fvcking Harley, of course...) cam shortly after the take. We almost left it on the fade out.
Old 6th July 2018
  #67
Gear Maniac
 

And if you're making a record about trains, record it in a bunch of different train stations, because 'Big Hall Reverb' doesn't quite capture it.

Old 6th July 2018
  #68
Lives for gear
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
The few crickets I had were appropriate for the song, in fact the song opens with crickets.
That's funny most of my performances end with crickets.
Old 7th July 2018
  #69
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Forget who said it, but yes, to a degree it's genre- and trend-dependent. Like those REO Speedwagon and Journey and Mr. Mister records where it seems like they wrote the songs by starting with Big Reverb and then filling it up with stuff.

I imagine if the same songwriter wrote one song in a stairwell and another song in a coat closet, those two songs would be pretty different. Two different kinds of honest.
Yes, it's like they picked a cool sounding reverb and wrote the song as if the reverb itself was an instrument in the band.

I believe orchestral composers do that all the time.
Old 7th July 2018
  #70
Lives for gear
 
chrischoir's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
I posted this in another thread. It worked out great for the song. The tree line actually provides more 'bounce' than I thought it would.





This was way up in the mountains. At first I was going to print a reverb track for each individual instrument and mix them when I got home. But there were two crickets in the field, and then I had four and then I had six. You know, your typical cricket build-up. I finally did some trial and error and committed to an overall reverb mix. The few crickets I had were appropriate for the song, in fact the song opens with crickets.
can you post the recording?
Old 7th July 2018
  #71
Lives for gear
 
Timothy Lawler's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
...It worked out great for the song. The tree line actually provides more 'bounce' than I thought it would.




Nice.
Old 7th July 2018
  #72
Lives for gear
 
markodarko's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
I posted this in another thread. It worked out great for the song. The tree line actually provides more 'bounce' than I thought it would.

Ahh, the lesser-spotted Roland-warbler. Unusual to capture it here outside of its usual habitat.
Old 7th July 2018
  #73
Lives for gear
 
Lance Lawson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by markodarko View Post
One question... Why do people write "verb" instead of "reverb"? Are those extra two letters really that taxing?

The "verb" people are the one's from Cali.
Old 7th July 2018
  #74
Gear Maniac
 

Verb is short for Reverb and Reverb is Short for Reverberation and we are short on samples and long on verbiage.
Old 7th July 2018
  #75
Lives for gear
 
Oldone's Avatar
I went through a whole "learn all about reverb" phase years ago. Matching timing, 1/4th, 1/8th, predelay control, EQ before and after the verb, compression before and after the verb (depending on the need). I came to the conclusion that in a lot of cases I couldn't make a bad sounding reverb box or plugin sound good. When I had the money to buy a decent reverb box, in this case a Lexicon 300, most of the settings I needed were presets. Go figure.

It's just that a really good reverb like a Bricasti, Lex or TC box, is going to have a lot of your needs designed in. You pay for the convenience.
Old 7th July 2018
  #76
Gear Maniac
 

I think it's funny that a lot of folks say you can't digitally model an analog circuit, but fully accept digital models of space.
Old 7th July 2018
  #77
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
I think it's funny that a lot of folks say you can't digitally model an analog circuit, but fully accept digital models of space.
I dunno, it all seems like a succession to me. Real plates and springs were both "pretend space." But they only did one thing. The first digital reverbs were just a different kind of pretend space, but more flexible and quieter and with more top end (too much, we think now) and you could put a kick drum through them.

To me, modeled reverbs are just digital reverbs that, in practical use, dial back the hyper-real in favor of more real-real. Don't much care how they achieve it. Also generally don't much care for them outside of mix-to-picture, which I hardly ever do anymore.
Old 7th July 2018
  #78
Lives for gear
 
soundebler's Avatar
Using lot of side-chain gate in the verb signal and before the verb signal to control amount being send to verb signal . From my gear this apply most for Eminent 310 that produce lot of continuous string sounds that is to much for verb or delay , but braking the signal give lot of headroom and create extra sounds . Only having one dual Side-chain compressor the signal can pass 2 times and there is a bypass signal to mix 3 mono and 3 stereo returns with effects for eminent that has on board spring verb .
Old 7th July 2018
  #79
Lives for gear
 
Lance Lawson's Avatar
 

In more primitive times many of us hated the sound of amplifier spring reverbs because they didn't really sound like what we heard on records. This was especially driven home when we actually began recording our music in studios. I always inquired and wanted to see and know how the reverb was being produced. The system I became most familiar with used a big plate augmented with a pair of TEAC tape machines running at high speed. The effect was luscious to say the least. I can't deny that today's digital reverbs sound generally great because they don't require the metal spring or plate which always opened the possibility of having a metallic Dr. Who Dalek sound.

As far as natural space reverb goes the most incredible space was at CW Post College on Long Island. They have a circular chapel with a domed ceiling and it's all marble. The sound would get up in that ceiling and swirl huge and long. It wasn't that big of a place either and it was all high frequency crystal clean. I'd go up there with a band mate and we'd kind of dress rehearse for what we wanted something to sound like in finished recording. One night the pastor of the chapel came in and I thought he'd toss us out. But he had a guitar with him and we all played some things together. Bridge Over Troubled Water was recorded in St. Patrick's in NYC. and it sounds like it too. But the CW Post Chapel was IMO better. But of course campuses are all locked down now and you'd never get in there at 10PM like we could.
Old 7th July 2018
  #80
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
can you post the recording?
The first one is the fadeout of the song. The reverb percentage keeps rising. The feeling I was going for was an outdoor party or jam where you are walking/running away into the woods or whatever and leaving the party in the distance.

the second one is the reverb only

There are actually two reverbs being used. The first is what you see in the photo, which is the "close" reverb. For the "far" reverb, I put the mics off to the right, in the middle of a large field about 3 or 4 times farther away, but I left the amp where it is

The far reverb starts fading in as the music fades out.
Old 7th July 2018
  #81
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
The first one is the fadeout of the song. The reverb percentage keeps rising. The feeling I was going for was an outdoor party or jam where you are walking/running away into the woods or whatever and leaving the party in the distance.

the second one is the reverb only

There are actually two reverbs being used. The first is what you see in the photo, which is the "close" reverb. For the "far" reverb, I put the mics off to the right, in the middle of a large field about 3 or 4 times farther away, but I left the amp where it is

The far reverb starts fading in as the music fades out.
That's cool, Joe. Thanks for posting them.
Old 7th July 2018
  #82
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
The first one...
Really nice. Decays don't get any smoother than that. And a gold star for you, Mr. Clip-Poster! :-)
Old 7th July 2018
  #83
Lives for gear
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
Dang, that was some audio wizardry. I'll have to keep that trick in mind!
Old 7th July 2018
  #84
Gear Head
 
Dennis4's Avatar
 

Impressive !
What a great idea.
Old 7th July 2018
  #85
Lives for gear
 
Dr. Mordo's Avatar
 

There was a similar reverb trick on Tony Levin's "From the Caves of the Iron Mountain", but they way they achieved it was by walking toward from the source with a microphone! You can hear Tchad's feet crunching in the gravel.

I'm being a bit disingenuous by calling it a "microphone" because it was a Neumann KU 100 and it was hooked to a portable recording rig.

BTW, that's a pretty amazing album that every recordist should check out. IMO it represents a dream opportunity to do something weird and cool. It's also a great example of why lossy file compression sucks, because the sound goes from 3d to flat after reduction.

Old 7th July 2018
  #86
Lives for gear
 
chrischoir's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
The first one is the fadeout of the song. The reverb percentage keeps rising. The feeling I was going for was an outdoor party or jam where you are walking/running away into the woods or whatever and leaving the party in the distance.

the second one is the reverb only

There are actually two reverbs being used. The first is what you see in the photo, which is the "close" reverb. For the "far" reverb, I put the mics off to the right, in the middle of a large field about 3 or 4 times farther away, but I left the amp where it is

The far reverb starts fading in as the music fades out.
sounds great Joe, second clip you can really hear the depth. TBH I would have thought it would have sounded more distant by the photos. It's always deceiving. I don't want to go off topic but these clips are a prime example of what digital reverbs still can't do even remotely so

Did you ever track drums this way? I read STP did it on some songs
Old 7th July 2018
  #87
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
sounds great, second clip you can really hear the depth. TBH I would have thought it would have sounded more distant by the photos. I don't want to go off topic but these clips are a prime example of what digital reverbs still can't do even remotely so
The image is actually the close mics. I don't have a photo of the "far" mic setup. There is a small rise on the right and beyond that is a big meadow and the mics were moved about 3 or 4 times farther away. Not sure why it sounds less distant than it looks. Could be the lens!

Quote:
Did you ever track drums this way?
Later that same day, I did track some percussion in the big field - about 10-15 feet in front of the field mics. These are the timbale fills that come in near the end. The timbales were loud enough to 'excite' the space, which being a large meadow, is pretty hard to do.

I actually recorded a lot of stuff, cowbells, shakers, etc. and it all sounded "interesting" but just did not make it into the final arrangement on a musical level.
Old 7th July 2018
  #88
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Mordo View Post
There was a similar reverb trick on Tony Levin's "From the Caves of the Iron Mountain", but they way they achieved it was by walking toward from the source with a microphone! You can hear Tchad's feet crunching in the gravel.
... IMO it represents a dream opportunity to do something weird and cool.
Paul Winter recorded some stuff in the Grand Canyon. They literally rafted in and jammed in the canyon. I think they did the second half of that record at the Cathedral of St John the Divine in NY where the Paul Winter Consort had a residency. Some of the Cathedral stuff sounds more like a canyon than the canyon.

This reminds me of something mentioned earlier about the appropriateness of the space to the tempo of the song. Both the Canyon and St John the Divine are roughly 7 seconds of decay time.

During their residency the Paul Winter Consort would have guest artists join them for different concerts. Solstices and Equinoxes mostly. One time the guest was a Brazilian Samba band. The concert opened with solo oboe from the far back of the room playing long legato notes. It sounded great. Very dreamy and spacey. Then the Samba band did a marching thing down the main aisle from the back to the front. It was just like a roar, until they got right next to my row, where I could make out the rhythms and then when they passed me, it was just a roar again. Little more than noise to me. When they got to the front, it was just unlistenable until I was able to move forward.

All the fast notes piled up and the quick chord changes hung in the air and clashed with each other like a piano with a stuck sustain pedal.
Old 8th July 2018
  #89
Lives for gear
 
Dr. Mordo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
Paul Winter recorded some stuff in the Grand Canyon. They literally rafted in and jammed in the canyon. I think they did the second half of that record at the Cathedral of St John the Divine in NY where the Paul Winter Consort had a residency. Some of the Cathedral stuff sounds more like a canyon than the canyon.

This reminds me of something mentioned earlier about the appropriateness of the space to the tempo of the song. Both the Canyon and St John the Divine are roughly 7 seconds of decay time.

During their residency the Paul Winter Consort would have guest artists join them for different concerts. Solstices and Equinoxes mostly. One time the guest was a Brazilian Samba band. The concert opened with solo oboe from the far back of the room playing long legato notes. It sounded great. Very dreamy and spacey. Then the Samba band did a marching thing down the main aisle from the back to the front. It was just like a roar, until they got right next to my row, where I could make out the rhythms and then when they passed me, it was just a roar again. Little more than noise to me. When they got to the front, it was just unlistenable until I was able to move forward.

All the fast notes piled up and the quick chord changes hung in the air and clashed with each other like a piano with a stuck sustain pedal.
I think that's part of what's cool about "From the Caves of the Iron Mountain". The reverb is several seconds, but Tchad balances it very carefully against the music, and the music is generally built to provide space for the verb. Like I said, a lot to be learned from that album.

I'll check out that Paul Winter stuff, thanks!
Old 8th July 2018
  #90
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
Paul Winter recorded some stuff in the Grand Canyon. They literally rafted in and jammed in the canyon. I think they did the second half of that record at the Cathedral of St John the Divine in NY where the Paul Winter Consort had a residency. Some of the Cathedral stuff sounds more like a canyon than the canyon.

This reminds me of something mentioned earlier about the appropriateness of the space to the tempo of the song. Both the Canyon and St John the Divine are roughly 7 seconds of decay time.

During their residency the Paul Winter Consort would have guest artists join them for different concerts. Solstices and Equinoxes mostly. One time the guest was a Brazilian Samba band. The concert opened with solo oboe from the far back of the room playing long legato notes. It sounded great. Very dreamy and spacey. Then the Samba band did a marching thing down the main aisle from the back to the front. It was just like a roar, until they got right next to my row, where I could make out the rhythms and then when they passed me, it was just a roar again. Little more than noise to me. When they got to the front, it was just unlistenable until I was able to move forward.

All the fast notes piled up and the quick chord changes hung in the air and clashed with each other like a piano with a stuck sustain pedal.
When was that? On of my old professors was in the Paul Winter Consort, I wonder if he was part of that.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump