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Recording a jazz quartet - Mics Condenser Microphones
Old 4 days ago
  #31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp12Jazz View Post
only the piano player having to rely on headphones/no sight.
you can solve the "no sight" problem by picking up a couple of those cheap cameras that are used for surveillance or "baby monitoring". together with a couple of computer monitors (maybe borrowed?) you can give both the piano player and the rest of the group a view of each other. I've done this with success a number of times.
Old 4 days ago
  #32
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildplum View Post
you can solve the "no sight" problem by picking up a couple of those cheap cameras that are used for surveillance or "baby monitoring". together with a couple of computer monitors (maybe borrowed?) you can give both the piano player and the rest of the group a view of each other. I've done this with success a number of times.
...if going this route, i recommend looking for something simple old analog (should be cheap), as most digital consumer devices delay the signal (at least they did when we tried that 10 years ago ). I'm sure there's really fast digital too, but i guess it's more expensive.
Old 4 days ago
  #33
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
so after long planning i finally found a way to free up another bigger room where i could throw them all in.
Still wont be able to move the piano, but since the pianist plays vibes and rhodes on most tracks we were thinking of overdubbing piano if necessary.

Now trying to get the most out of the room with treatment. Dimension are roughly 220 cm height, 600x450 cm with and additional corner of 200x200.
Glass Front on one side, concrete walls for the rest. Thick carpeting on the floor.
I do have about 12 100x50 basic acoustic foam modules that i plan on using, plus 4 bass trap corner modules. Lots of carpet available in the house.
I also plan on buying acoustic dividers / drum shield / amp shield etc.. to minimize the bleed. Opinions on this? Are there cheaper (homemade) alternatives to the expensive acrylic glass stuff?

I know its still no Van Gelder wood Cathedral and that it wont sound perfect, but i m dead set on recording them here..

The Band will switch from Vibes to Fender Rhodes and Upright to Electric Bass depending on the song. I only have one amp at the moment but could possibly rent something else, if not go the DI way with either Bass or Rhodes, but would prefer a no headphones setup if possible.

Any other thoughts/ideas on how to get the best result?

Thanks for all the input so far too, it does help for sure.
Old 4 days ago
  #34
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vernier's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
Do you even read posts, or just comment based on the title?
OP needs to rent something like in my post, or close to it, if he's into jazz.
Old 4 days ago
  #35
Lives for gear
 
Funny Cat's Avatar
I think you can do it, even if you need to bunch all the players together. I think this will be a fun session. This video below should help, especially with the bass and drum miking. Also, if you're planning on overdubbing the piano, maybe have the pianist play a D.I. weighted keyboard so he can play together with the band. It'll help the vibe tremendously to have him in there while tracking. Overdub the upright afterward.


Old 2 days ago
  #36
Gear Head
 

Thread Starter
last bump. I came across pretty good deals for mics locally and thus the setup changed a bit, heres what i m thinking:

1x Nevaton mk51 - Upright Bass (maybe add another mic ?)
2x AKG c414 - Piano / Rhodes / Vibes
1x Melodium 42b - Trumpet

Drums:
Audix D6 - bass
2x Microtech / Gefell MV692 with M70 capsules - overheads
SM57 - sd

There are two late 70s U87 not too far away from me at a decent price too, i m wondering if it would be worth it/adding that much ?

I m also going to build some Gobos on my own to improve seperation and acoustics.

thanks for the input!

Old 2 days ago
  #37
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thismercifulfate's Avatar
I would not put a D6 near anything on a jazz session. An EV RE20 or an AKG D12E will be much better suited for kick duties. Even a cheap ribbon mic or an SM57/58.
Old 2 days ago
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thismercifulfate View Post
I would not put a D6 near anything on a jazz session. An EV RE20 or an AKG D12E will be much better suited for kick duties. Even a cheap ribbon mic or an SM57/58.
i agree that one really don't need a mic that goes very low when the drummer is into 'bongo tuning' on the bass drum...
i mostly end up using a different mic on the bass drum too but the d6 is what the op seems to have, it ain't that bad (actually very good on kick out with a beta 91 inside for rock music) and sm57/58 imo won't do any 'better', just different.
Old 2 days ago
  #39
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp12Jazz View Post
last bump. I came across pretty good deals for mics locally and thus the setup changed a bit, heres what i m thinking:

1x Nevaton mk51 - Upright Bass (maybe add another mic ?)
2x AKG c414 - Piano / Rhodes / Vibes
1x Melodium 42b - Trumpet

Drums:
Audix D6 - bass
2x Microtech / Gefell MV692 with M70 capsules - overheads
SM57 - sd

There are two late 70s U87 not too far away from me at a decent price too, i m wondering if it would be worth it/adding that much ?

I m also going to build some Gobos on my own to improve seperation and acoustics.

thanks for the input!

O.k., here's my opinion, since i'm pretty often in the same recording situation:

If you can afford the U87s grab them. Really nice drum overheads (worked several times for me at least). And you can use them for almost anything in the future.
The M70s are nice too, although i often found them a bit grainy as overheads (but with an interesting character). I'd recommend deciding when doing the soundcheck. They're good microphones, but the bleed on them sounds horrible. They could be great on the piano, if there are no drums in the room!

Somehow i never really found anything where the c414 shine - but i regularly use my c214 as the bass drum mic, works almost always (i like to mix it with a ribbon). I haven't used the D6, but if it sounds anything similar to the Shure beta52a, don't use it as the single bassdrum mic. Maybe combine it with something else (use the D6 to get the extra lowend).
It's good to have some options (if you have the time) to compare.

Bass: the Nevaton (which i don't know) looks very similar to my UM70, which i use in figure 8 for Upright Bass when there's a drumkit nearby. I suspend the UM70 with rubber bands in the bridge, so that it doesn't touch the bass. Gives a boomy sound, you'll have to use eq, but at least you have a usable signal / drum-noise ratio. I very often tried 'normal' mic setups in front of the bass with different mics, nothing comes close to that setup, IF loud drums are in the room.
It will sound a little 'pick-uppy', for that reason i use another mic further away to combine with, and for exclusive use in ballads or bass-soli when the drummer doesn't play loud... of course the drumkit has to be in the null of the 8 pattern.

And i'd put some big absorption in every available corner of the room. Two packets of uncompressed insulation for each will help a lot. If that's not doable, use mattresses (across the corner), that's better than nothing.

Good luck (again :-)!
Old 2 days ago
  #40
Gear Nut
 

I actually had a similar situation last week (but with different instruments). It was a jazz group with guitar, electric bass, drums, and saxophone in one pretty small room (but much less high end gear as far as the console goes).

I also had to control bleed a lot. We used an Aston Halo for the horn (which worked very well). For the drums and electric instruments we used a mixture of the room's architecture (it was in a house and we had a half wall in the middle) and GIK freestanding Alpha absorber/diffusers. I think it will be important to have some freestanding absorbers like that to control the room getting too splashy with reflections.

Having line of sight is extremely important for jazz groups and everything should be recorded in live sessions as much as possible. I agree with using a camera if you need to for the piano. It's all about making the players comfortable. Make sure they are well fed and hydrated. Make sure the room is comfortable, too. It's no accident that some of the greatest jazz recordings were literally done in a living room. (The couches and furniture also are great at absorbing a lot of loud reflections).

As for mics, I think you're probably in good shape with your plans. One that I do like for jazz kick though is a u47 fet style mic. Also would work well on the bass probably.
Old 1 day ago
  #41
Lives for gear
This is an amazing thread and just hopping in and out to have it on my radar. I do think having the quartet together is important from a musicians point of view. Good luck!!!
Old 1 day ago
  #42
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AlexK's Avatar
 

You have to use your ears - I’ve spent a lot of time recording jazz and not once have I found a D6 to work. There may be exceptions out there but it’s an extremely coloured mic with a very scooped sound for a particular vibe (clicky bass drums essentially).
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