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Warm Audio 47 vs Telefunken CB-29 Copperhead: Best mic for a PRO Vocal Sound
Old 4th May 2018
  #61
Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking View Post
Never had a problem with shockmount or build quality with the copperhead. Sorry you are experiencing those problems! I think it has a well supported shockmount, maybe the best I've used.



(actual pic of my mic)
Nice pic. Do you have some sort of reflection filter in the back? Or is it the room acoustic treatment?
I would like to know if much treatment is needed, my room is not bad but not treated either, do if theres any easy way to make it work better I’d give it a try.
Old 4th May 2018
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking View Post
Never had a problem with shockmount or build quality with the copperhead. Sorry you are experiencing those problems! I think it has a well supported shockmount, maybe the best I've used.
So you don't have to ream on it to get it to stay?
Old 4th May 2018
  #63
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttattwa View Post
Nice pic. Do you have some sort of reflection filter in the back? Or is it the room acoustic treatment?
I would like to know if much treatment is needed, my room is not bad but not treated either, do if theres any easy way to make it work better I’d give it a try.
Yes you need room treatment with the copperhead definitely. Will not sound nearly as nice otherwise. Room treatment is as important as gear, probably more.

I have a lot of acoustic panels up, and i have a SE Electronics S.P.A.C.E Reflexion filter on the mic (behind it in picture). Its real deal, but it wont do everything. Works best in combination with room treatment. That way you dont need to crowd the mic with it. Putting it too close can dull the mic, but it helps big time. Especially in a small room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Adkins View Post
So you don't have to ream on it to get it to stay?
Shockmount has been great all around for me. Its been the best ive had so far. Im sorry your having that problem!
Old 4th May 2018
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking View Post
Yes you need room treatment with the copperhead definitely. Will not sound nearly as nice otherwise. Room treatment is as important as gear, probably more.

I have a lot of acoustic panels up, and i have a SE Electronics S.P.A.C.E Reflexion filter on the mic (behind it in picture). Its real deal, but it wont do everything. Works best in combination with room treatment. That way you dont need to crowd the mic with it. Putting it too close can dull the mic, but it helps big time. Especially in a small room.



Shockmount has been great all around for me. Its been the best ive had so far. Im sorry your having that problem!
Well, I really like the mic a lot! Sonically, it's definitely a keeper. I'm actually making another trip to Sweetwater today, and I'm going to pull another one out of the box and thoroughly inspect the shock mount before taking it home.
Its interesting that you use an sE Space with yours. I have one and tried using it, and the Copperhead seemed to become very prone to sibilance. In fact, I've never had a cardioid mic which was so drastically affected by the reflection filter in an adverse way as much as this mic is.
Old 4th May 2018
  #65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Adkins View Post
Well, I really like the mic a lot! Sonically, it's definitely a keeper. I'm actually making another trip to Sweetwater today, and I'm going to pull another one out of the box and thoroughly inspect the shock mount before taking it home.
Its interesting that you use an sE Space with yours. I have one and tried using it, and the Copperhead seemed to become very prone to sibilance. In fact, I've never had a cardioid mic which was so drastically affected by the reflection filter in an adverse way as much as this mic is.
That is strange, as most people say that this mic takes very well sibilance, but you 2 commented otherwise from your experience.

What kind of acoustic treatment do you have and what do you think that is needed in order to make this mic sound at its best?
Old 4th May 2018
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttattwa View Post
That is strange, as most people say that this mic takes very well sibilance, but you 2 commented otherwise from your experience.

What kind of acoustic treatment do you have and what do you think that is needed in order to make this mic sound at its best?
The mic actually handles sibilance quite well! And the WA47 is only better on that front because there's not as much fidelity in the upper frequencies.
But I noticed that (for me) the Copperhead really reacted badly to the reflection filter. I don't know if some of the frequencies in that range were reflected back into the mic, or what. But it definitely became sibilant when it was being used (again, for me... Ymmv).
My tracking room is 30 ft by 25 ft, in the shape of a "T", and I do have bass traps and wall treatment. The ceiling is only 8 ft, but I've treated the first reflection point where the mic is. I also use a few blankets draped over stands. Works pretty well.
Old 4th May 2018
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Adkins View Post
Anyway, in an ironic turn of events, I opened the wooden box which holds the CU29, and excitedly pull it out to marvel at the quality of workmanship... And as I pick it up I hear a clinking sound, like a coin hitting the floor. Wouldn't you know it... The badge fell off! Lol.
now you will never know which end is the front!
Old 5th May 2018
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
now you will never know which end is the front!
Right
Luckily, I had the adhesive to guide me.
Old 5th May 2018
  #69
I am actually experimenting a little bit more with my shure sm7b WITHOUT the windshield that comes with it (it comes with a thick one, a thin one, and I am using it now without anything). I did this to get some of the air / high end back, because thats why I started considering a large condenser in the first place. I have recorded some acousic guitar and it sounds good but the plosives with vocals are too much now after I removed the windshield so its not usable.

I couldn’t find much information to whats a good recomendation for a pop filter that doesn’t affect the sound at all but removes the plosives, so I can keep the sound of the sm7b like that. I had a look at the stedmans, and the cheaper alternatives that are best sellers at thomann, but no idea of what is worth getting. You guys got any experience worth sharing / brand recommendation? I want to push the sm7b to its maximum possibilities before buying the Copperhead or any other more expensive mic.
Old 5th May 2018
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttattwa View Post
I am actually experimenting a little bit more with my shure sm7b WITHOUT the windshield that comes with it (it comes with a thick one, a thin one, and I am using it now without anything). I did this to get some of the air / high end back, because thats why I started considering a large condenser in the first place. I have recorded some acousic guitar and it sounds good but the plosives with vocals are too much now after I removed the windshield so its not usable.

I couldn’t find much information to whats a good recomendation for a pop filter that doesn’t affect the sound at all but removes the plosives, so I can keep the sound of the sm7b like that. I had a look at the stedmans, and the cheaper alternatives that are best sellers at thomann, but no idea of what is worth getting. You guys got any experience worth sharing / brand recommendation? I want to push the sm7b to its maximum possibilities before buying the Copperhead or any other more expensive mic.
Get a Stedman. They work without taking any high end off, and their customer support is awesome. Mine broke after a few years and they shipped me a new piece to fix it and just asked that I mail them a check to cover shipping whenever I get around to it.
Old 5th May 2018
  #71
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As for your mic situation, you really do just have to find what works for you. The Copperhead is nice, but I ended up taking mine back. It's an exciting sounding mic, but it did enhance a certain part of my vocal in the upper mids that just went right down my spine. It's not the mic's fault... It's just the way it fits me.
Old 5th May 2018
  #72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Adkins View Post
Get a Stedman. They work without taking any high end off, and their customer support is awesome. Mine broke after a few years and they shipped me a new piece to fix it and just asked that I mail them a check to cover shipping whenever I get around to it.
Thanks. I see them in a bunch of studios so I will just get the PS101, I guess is a safe bet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Adkins View Post
As for your mic situation, you really do just have to find what works for you. The Copperhead is nice, but I ended up taking mine back. It's an exciting sounding mic, but it did enhance a certain part of my vocal in the upper mids that just went right down my spine. It's not the mic's fault... It's just the way it fits me.
You are right. A mic for vocals is so personal that is hard to evaluate without actually tracking the same voice in the different mics to test. I will dig in the sm7b a little bit more and see what comes up. One good thing about this mic is that room acoustics are not so rellevant. The proximity effect is however huge so I also want the pop filter to set a consistent physical limit with the mic in that regard.

I will keep posting my findings.
Old 5th May 2018
  #73
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I think the 101 is what I have.
Old 5th May 2018
  #74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Adkins View Post
I think the 101 is what I have.
Just bought it, so we'll see. Thanks.
Old 5th May 2018
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttattwa View Post
Just bought it, so we'll see. Thanks.
A word of advice...
If you're ever changing mics, and happen to set the Stedman on your chair while doing the changeover, DO NOT forget to take it off the chair before setting down.
Very, very painful
Old 5th May 2018
  #76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Adkins View Post
A word of advice...
If you're ever changing mics, and happen to set the Stedman on your chair while doing the changeover, DO NOT forget to take it off the chair before setting down.
Very, very painful
good advice
Old 5th May 2018
  #77
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Don’t be surprised if you wind up liking the foam better in the end... less sibilance/no comb filtering effect because it’s right up to the headbasket.
Old 5th May 2018
  #78
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You can order a piece of the air filter foam that is for c-pap/bi-pap breathing machines, and it’s basically the same foam used for a Hakan filter, fwiw.

You can use that in a pop filter hoop, or tape it on a mic, or do some other rigging, and get probably the most transparent of all pop filter approaches sound wise.

Some filters like Steadman, and even traditional panty-hose/cloth type filters can reduce frequencies in a way that makes dips in some areas that then lead to feeling like sibilance is exaggerated, as I stated in the last post...

After the light grade air filter foam, I like regular foam windscreens best.

At the end of the day, if it works for you it works, and I’m not really knocking any products, jus throwing out where I’ve ended up after going through the gambit. I just hate being in a position to have to deal with heavy de-essing.
Old 5th May 2018
  #79
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The only bad effect I've ever noticed with the metal mesh Stedman-type screens is that if you're right up on them they can sometimes create a whistling sound. But this only happens if your basically eating it.
A lot of times, I don't even use pop filters anymore. But that's because I'm 12 to 18 inches from the mic. With an sm7, you really don't have a choice. And even with the foam on, it's still pretty susceptible to plosives.
Old 5th May 2018
  #80
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttattwa View Post
That is strange, as most people say that this mic takes very well sibilance, but you 2 commented otherwise from your experience.

What kind of acoustic treatment do you have and what do you think that is needed in order to make this mic sound at its best?
Yeah sibilance with the copperhead is a non issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Adkins View Post
Well, I really like the mic a lot! Sonically, it's definitely a keeper. I'm actually making another trip to Sweetwater today, and I'm going to pull another one out of the box and thoroughly inspect the shock mount before taking it home.
Its interesting that you use an sE Space with yours. I have one and tried using it, and the Copperhead seemed to become very prone to sibilance. In fact, I've never had a cardioid mic which was so drastically affected by the reflection filter in an adverse way as much as this mic is.
Sorry it didnt work out for you. Some mics just dont work on some people. Keep searching
Old 15th May 2018
  #81
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+1 here for the CU-29 Copperhead. Bought mine used no regrets at all, definitely has its own thing going on in a very good way. Best mic for the money hands down, really excels at vocals so good I wont be letting this puppie go. I don't think it was built with a single mic in mind rather some elements of what makes them great like other like to describe sheen & low end. I find it always pops where it counts in a mix ,though I appreciate that for few it wont suit.

For me room treatment is a no brainer before buying any mic at this price point and above. I was tempted by the WA-47 for a while to get a 47 vibe in the locker but again not so sure now, perhaps may have too look at another price point now
Old 15th May 2018
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking View Post
Sorry it didnt work out for you. Some mics just dont work on some people. Keep searching
Ended up trying another one out. This one is working out much better. Same sound, badge is on right, shock mount working
Tried it with an sE Space filter again. I guess in the end, I really just don't like what those things do to the sonics. I always get better results by hanging some thick blankets around the area.
Old 15th May 2018
  #83
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Originally Posted by MJB View Post
I respect that many of you find the Copperhead a pro piece, but I have to be the dissenting opinion. You couldn't give me a Copperhead, because I wouldn't use it.

To me, it was dull and lifeless. I tried it 3 or 4 times, next to a U87, the Soyuz 0-17, Mojave 200 and the Telefunken AR-51. First, I'd take the AR-51 over the Copperhead any day. That's a really nice sounding mic, right out of the box. The Soyuz and the U87AI just slayed it.

I was listening for an all around, main vocal mic. Even the Mojave was more interesting, but I didn't love it.
I've met guys who swear by the CU29 but I agree with you- I found it muddy and dark. I ended up with a Telefunken AR-51 at my studio.
Old 15th May 2018
  #84
MJB
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Yep, the AR51 sounds proper, good right out of the box, no need for mods.
Old 15th May 2018
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philter View Post
I've met guys who swear by the CU29 but I agree with you- I found it muddy and dark. I ended up with a Telefunken AR-51 at my studio.
I think it's always going to be a singer dependant thing. My vocal tends to not react well with mics that emphasize a lot of high end. But my favorite vocal mic is an AEA R84, so I'm also inclined to lean toward mics which are more mid forward, anyway.
Old 15th May 2018
  #86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Adkins View Post
Ended up trying another one out. This one is working out much better. Same sound, badge is on right, shock mount working
Tried it with an sE Space filter again. I guess in the end, I really just don't like what those things do to the sonics. I always get better results by hanging some thick blankets around the area.
Glad the new one works well.

Too bad about the Space filter, definitely takes some getting used to. You have to be very meticulous with placement, down to inches.
Old 15th May 2018
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking View Post
Glad the new one works well.

Too bad about the Space filter, definitely takes some getting used to. You have to be very meticulous with placement, down to inches.
Yeah I've had this thing for a couple years. I realize everyone has their own way of working and sound their trying to attain. For me the RF just hasn't panned out. I've messed around with all kinds of placement, down to centimeters.
Old 16th May 2018
  #88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Adkins View Post
Yeah I've had this thing for a couple years. I realize everyone has their own way of working and sound their trying to attain. For me the RF just hasn't panned out. I've messed around with all kinds of placement, down to centimeters.
Sorry to hear it didnt work out. I love my space filter. And my copperhead. New studio classics imo
Old 16th May 2018
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking View Post
Sorry to hear it didnt work out. I love my space filter. And my copperhead. New studio classics imo
I'm totally with you on the Copperhead
Old 16th May 2018
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Adkins View Post
I think it's always going to be a singer dependant thing. My vocal tends to not react well with mics that emphasize a lot of high end. But my favorite vocal mic is an AEA R84, so I'm also inclined to lean toward mics which are more mid forward, anyway.
That's certainly true- strident, sharp voices are the most common reason when the AR51 doesn't work for me. In that case I usually end up with a C414 or the much overlooked and underrated Vin Jet- both darker mics than the AR51.
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