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Warm Audio 47 vs Telefunken CB-29 Copperhead: Best mic for a PRO Vocal Sound Condenser Microphones
Old 10th April 2018
  #31
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ttattwa View Post
I have read that same thing many times in here, and I am no expert but from my experience this doesn't always need to be that way.
...
I agree, sorry if I came off as being a bit aggressive. Do whatever works.

That said, I listened to the samples and I'm not hearing the mics shine and it's because of the room. I've heard this same thing with world-class mics like Flea 47's, C800's, the Redd mic and most recently with samples of the SONY c-100. Bad sounding tracks with great mics. What does that tell us?

1- The 'engineer/artist' doesn't notice that it sounds bad.
2- Or...they do notice and don't care.

Either way, most folks should save their money and use an SM58.
Old 10th April 2018
  #32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
I agree, sorry if I came off as being a bit aggressive. Do whatever works.

That said, I listened to the samples and I'm not hearing the mics shine and it's because of the room. I've heard this same thing with world-class mics like Flea 47's, C800's, the Redd mic and most recently with samples of the SONY c-100. Bad sounding tracks with great mics. What does that tell us?

1- The 'engineer/artist' doesn't notice that it sounds bad.
2- Or...they do notice and don't care.

Either way, most folks should save their money and use an SM58.
No worries, didn't take it bad in any way, I agree with the essence of what you're saying, and I would add that when listening to the samples in this or some other threads, these are mostly comparisons: one vs the other. Probably, if you like "A" more than "B" in a less treated room, you're going to like it better as well in a treated room... and maybe in some scenarios that may be the opposite, but in any case I try to notice the details that make 2 or 3 mics different through these clips, through oppinions... all in all I want to get closer to what I intend to sound like, but in the end I know that only BUYING or HAVING the stuff with me is going to answer the final question: do I like it or not?

These clips, all opinions posted, youtube compressed videos, all this is gold compared to what the previous generation had (magazines?)... if you know what I mean

In a perfect world I could rent everything and test it for a couple weeks, then keep only what I like, but that's not possible so here I can get some approximation of things... then decide, and hopefully be happy about it.

Not too many people I've seen are not happy about their CU-29 after spending 1000-1500$ on it, I hope I'm not one of them. If I finally get it, I'll come and report back here, for sure.
Old 11th April 2018
  #33
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
I agree, sorry if I came off as being a bit aggressive. Do whatever works.

That said, I listened to the samples and I'm not hearing the mics shine and it's because of the room. I've heard this same thing with world-class mics like Flea 47's, C800's, the Redd mic and most recently with samples of the SONY c-100. Bad sounding tracks with great mics. What does that tell us?

1- The 'engineer/artist' doesn't notice that it sounds bad.
2- Or...they do notice and don't care.

Either way, most folks should save their money and use an SM58.
That was a pretty cheap shot dude and really unnecessary. That’s twice now you’ve done it to me on two different threads, for no reason I can think of as I don’t recall ever saying anything negative to you.

At no point did I claim to be an expert singer and I stated clearly that I just recorded the samples in my control room, so to allow for a bit of room sound.
I was simply comparing two mics with the exact same source, be it with a bad singer a bad guitarist or a bad room, anyone listening could hear the ‘differences’ in the mics on those same sources, I wasn’t going for utmost quality here.. I’m not trying to sell the mics.
Old 11th April 2018
  #34
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hasntbeen View Post
That was a pretty cheap shot dude and really unnecessary. That’s twice now you’ve done it to me on two different threads, for no reason I can think of as I don’t recall ever saying anything negative to you.

At no point did I claim to be an expert singer and I stated clearly that I just recorded the samples in my control room, so to allow for a bit of room sound.
I was simply comparing two mics with the exact same source, be it with a bad singer a bad guitarist or a bad room, anyone listening could hear the ‘differences’ in the mics on those same sources, I wasn’t going for utmost quality here.. I’m not trying to sell the mics.
Oh sorry, nothing personal. I've only commented on bad rooms, not bad performances. If we're not OBJECTIVE about the things we hear, then we end up living in a world where 'everything sounds great!' even when it doesn't. I'd rather be honest.

And yours are certainly not the only examples of a bad room sound masking the real quality of gear. It's an important topic- try and be a bit more dispassionate about it.
Old 11th April 2018
  #35
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
Oh sorry, nothing personal. I've only commented on bad rooms, not bad performances. If we're not OBJECTIVE about the things we hear, then we end up living in a world where 'everything sounds great!' even when it doesn't. I'd rather be honest.

And yours are certainly not the only examples of a bad room sound masking the real quality of gear. It's an important topic- try and be a bit more dispassionate about it.
Fair enough and apology accepted.

Maybe be a little less passionate yourself about the sound of a room when it’s clearly not the purpose of the samples to display a great sounding room. I took time out of my day to run a quick comparison of two mics for someone, that is all. Keep your comments relevant, especially when they are critical.
Old 11th April 2018
  #36
Went back and tried to find a track that we used the Copperhead on all the vocals. Obviously, there's some processing but "in a song" is where a mic like the Copperhead ultimately lives. We even had a take with a Flea 47 stock model and choose this take. Good luck in your quest and I'll be really surprised if it doesn't work out for you as an excellent tube, cardiod microphone.

Old 11th April 2018
  #37
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttattwa View Post
The title is self explanatory. The WA-47 is created after the Neumann, and the CB-29 doesn't clone anything in particular but it is there in the vintage ELAM251 (a bit darker) - U47 - U67 territory...

From all the clips that I have heard, the WA-47 sounds a little bit less 3D, has a bit less depth to its sound, and doesn't hide so well the small "deffects" of a vocal performance, but the Copperhead handles this very well and flatters any voice every single time.... when I listen to the Copperhead I feel like: "this is a finished pro vocal, it has mojo", but not when I listen to any other contender sub-2.000$.

If the Copperhead was 3.000$ it wouldn't surprise me, as its sound and finish construction seems to be up there with the high end mics (the high end mics that Telefunken themselves make, actually), but the WA-47 looks cheaper (materials / finish, tolerances), and the sound that I have heard from it so far is very good, but lacks some magic to me, and "magic /depth / 3D / finished feel" is what I am looking for.

As you can see I am already leaning towards the Copperhead (I only want it for Male Vocals - alternative, folk, soul, jazz.. -), but maybe I am missing something, or you can share your experiences with these 2, or introduce a 3rd model that is worth checking out, for a tube condenser mic for male vocals?

I don't have a chance to try any mics were I live, so I hope to get the feeling from your answers.

The vocal chain has good preamps, comps, converters, all along, so that won't be a problem.
If you can afford it ALWAYS get the best of the best,

If you do, essentially you end up renting the gear not buying it as you can sell it for what you bought it for (Or close to that amount) it will have the biggest impact on the quality of your recordings as well

Middle-of-the-road stuff is the worst, it loses 70% of its value as soon as you leave the store, and its impact on your music is usually debatable

I think you should be deciding between the cheapest, best reviewed Chinese no-name condenser and the Telefunken

Spend $100 or spend $3000

Stay out of the middle, its the "Kill Zone"
Old 12th April 2018
  #38
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by hasntbeen View Post
Fair enough and apology accepted.

Maybe be a little less passionate yourself about the sound of a room when it’s clearly not the purpose of the samples to display a great sounding room. I took time out of my day to run a quick comparison of two mics for someone, that is all. Keep your comments relevant, especially when they are critical.
I for one thank you, and ALWAYS appreciate people who are willing to do what you did

You guys are the unsung heroes of G.S and have b**ls enough to put something out there besides another "Opinion"

You know what Keith Richards said about opinions: "Opinions are like as***les, everyone has one and they all STINK"
Old 29th April 2018
  #39
Lives for gear
 
Shannon Adkins's Avatar
 

I went to Sweetwater yesterday and auditioned the WA47, MA200, and the Copperhead CU29.
First off, I will say the build quality of the Copperhead is as good as it gets. The Mojave comes in 2nd in that regard, and the WA47 is a distant 3rd. This is not subjective... It's just fact. So if that's what matters to you, definitely go with the Copperhead.
Sweetwater was kind enough to let me bring my mobile rig in and do some vocal takes through all 3. When I was finished I went to a quiet place and listened through both DT880s and HD380s. It didn't take long to come to a conclusion.
I really wanted pick the Copperhead. But on my vocal and in that room, the WA47 was clearly the winner. Not even close. The mids had more clarity, and it was the biggest sounding out of all of them. Also the least sibilant (although none of them were bad in that regard... All 3 were great performers). I walked out with the Warm.
When I got home and unpacked everything, I had a closer look at the mic, and build quality is definitely an issue. The logo on the front was soldered on crooked and unevenly (you can actually see some of the solder because it's raised on 1 side). Also, the shock mount is horrible...which is bad because it's such a heavy mic. But that said, I went back and listened to the samples and it was definitely my favorite. And sound matters most to me.
I'm going to contact Sweetwater and see if they'll send me another one with a logo that isn't all crooked. I also may buy another shock mount.
Old 30th April 2018
  #40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Adkins View Post
I went to Sweetwater yesterday and auditioned the , , and the CU29.
First off, I will say the build quality of the is as good as it gets. The Mojave comes in 2nd in that regard, and the is a distant 3rd. This is not subjective... It's just fact. So if that's what matters to you, definitely go with the .
Sweetwater was kind enough to let me bring my mobile rig in and do some vocal takes through all 3. When I was finished I went to a quiet place and listened through both DT880s and HD380s. It didn't take long to come to a conclusion.
I really wanted pick the . But on my vocal and in that room, the was clearly the winner. Not even close. The mids had more clarity, and it was the biggest sounding out of all of them. Also the least sibilant (although none of them were bad in that regard... All 3 were great performers). I walked out with the Warm.
When I got home and unpacked everything, I had a closer look at the mic, and build quality is definitely an issue. The logo on the front was soldered on crooked and unevenly (you can actually see some of the solder because it's raised on 1 side). Also, the shock mount is horrible...which is bad because it's such a heavy mic. But that said, I went back and listened to the samples and it was definitely my favorite. And sound matters most to me.
I'm going to contact Sweetwater and see if they'll send me another one with a logo that isn't all crooked. I also may buy another shock mount.
Build quality is a big reason why i returned the warm 47 and kept the telefunken. Owning that mic made me appreciate the copper head more. Make sure to level match takes when u compare mics too. Even .2db might make you biased.
Old 30th April 2018
  #41
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Shannon Adkins's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kangking View Post
Build quality is a big reason why i returned the warm 47 and kept the telefunken. Owning that mic made me appreciate the copper head more. Make sure to level match takes when u compare mics too. Even .2db might make you biased.
Takes were level matched and compared several times. As I said, I wanted to pick the Copperhead. And honestly, in a dense rock style mix, it probably would be a better fit for me than the WARM, because (again, on my vocal) it was harder (more aggressive) sounding and more compressed, and also had noticeably more top end sheen. To me, it kind of sounded like a more polished, well rounded, tube saturated version of an AT4050.
Out of all 3 mics I auditioned, the Copperhead had the most obvious tube coloration. And that's something which I also think would sound great in a dense mix, but on my voice, in a sparse acoustic arrangement (which was my criteria), it felt like a little too much color.
Old 30th April 2018
  #42
Lives for gear
 
Shannon Adkins's Avatar
 

Well... I have a Copperhead on the way now too. The more I thought about it, I wanted to compare them in my recording space over a more prolonged time before making a final decision.
Old 30th April 2018
  #43
Found an old track written and recorded for a political campaign that used the Copperhead on everything because it was the only mic I owned at the time. Still looking for the stems to isolate the mic from the effects.

Old 30th April 2018
  #44
Here for the gear
 

one look at the WA47 frequency response and you should be disgusted.
Old 30th April 2018
  #45
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Shannon Adkins's Avatar
 

What I really want to make sure about is that I get to the sweet spot of both mics for a truly fair comparison. Listening back at the samples, it appears the Copperhead may have a little more proximity effect than the WA47, and this could be what's clouding up the mids. We'll see what happens when I have them here in my place. If anyone is interested I'll post samples.
Old 30th April 2018
  #46
Gear Addict
 
zohomoho's Avatar
 

I will never buy another Warm product. Mediocre at best. They sold their souls. Save a little and get something you'll never want to sell.
Old 30th April 2018
  #47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Adkins View Post
Well... I have a Copperhead on the way now too. The more I thought about it, I wanted to compare them in my recording space over a more prolonged time before making a final decision.
Right. Compare them in your space and check quality at the end. You might be suprised. I think copper head takes eq / compression better than the warm. Btw i love the wa 2a / wa76 comps by warm with the copperhead.
Old 1st May 2018
  #48
Lives for gear
 

I have a huge mic locker neuman, akg, manley, brauner etc the one sleeper mic I picked up just to have was the mxl Revelation. It really does sound great. Got it for $400 brand new. When they were released street price I think was 1200 so I picked it up thinking it would just collect dust but it serially has been used all over projects. Should give it a listen. There's some you tube videos on it.
Old 1st May 2018
  #49
Quote:
Originally Posted by trevon View Post
I have a huge mic locker neuman, akg, manley, brauner etc the one sleeper mic I picked up just to have was the mxl Revelation. It really does sound great. Got it for $400 brand new. When they were released street price I think was 1200 so I picked it up thinking it would just collect dust but it serially has been used all over projects. Should give it a listen. There's some you tube videos on it.
thanks for the tip. looks impressive for the price
Old 1st May 2018
  #50
Lives for gear
 
Rockabilly69's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by trevon View Post
I have a huge mic locker neuman, akg, manley, brauner etc the one sleeper mic I picked up just to have was the mxl Revelation. It really does sound great. Got it for $400 brand new. When they were released street price I think was 1200 so I picked it up thinking it would just collect dust but it serially has been used all over projects. Should give it a listen. There's some you tube videos on it.
Yep I alerted the masses to this mic a while back, and like you, I have some nice mics but still I'm impressed with it. But these mics have been discontinued by MXL so if you want one better jump on the deal now while they're still in stock!!!


Here's my original post...

Heads up on a good mic deal!


And here's the only place I can find the $399 deal at...

MXL Revelation Multi-Pattern Tube Condenser Mic | PSSL
Old 1st May 2018
  #51
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by trevon View Post
I have a huge mic locker neuman, akg, manley, brauner etc the one sleeper mic I picked up just to have was the mxl Revelation. It really does sound great. Got it for $400 brand new. When they were released street price I think was 1200 so I picked it up thinking it would just collect dust but it serially has been used all over projects. Should give it a listen. There's some you tube videos on it.
The MXL looks interesting indeed. How would you compare its sound to the Copperhead?
Old 1st May 2018
  #52
Lives for gear
 
Shannon Adkins's Avatar
 

So I just received the Copperhead and am about to do some comparisons against the WA47. As I stated earlier, one of my gripes about the WARM and praises about the Copperhead was build quality. Specifically, the badge on my WA47 is not on straight.
Anyway, in an ironic turn of events, I opened the wooden box which holds the CU29, and excitedly pull it out to marvel at the quality of workmanship... And as I pick it up I hear a clinking sound, like a coin hitting the floor. Wouldn't you know it... The badge fell off! Lol.
Maybe the moral of the story is that I shouldn't be too hard on WARM after all for build quality. Mistakes/defects are part of life and most of the time easily remedied.
Alright, enough talk. Now I'm off to hear what this mic does in my space
Old 1st May 2018
  #53
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 

There’s a fair chance the bodies and much of both of those are made in the same factory.

The telefunken RFT series were initially or still are basically mod mics made on the Apex 460 body platform. I’m sure that most all of the guts are totally custom but I wouldn’t be surprised if the boards are still populated overseas at Alctron or some different similar manufacturer.

Same for the Warm. It appears to be a customized version of the Alctron 47 style mic.

And I don’t say this to “diss” either product in any way.
Old 1st May 2018
  #54
Quote:
Originally Posted by zohomoho View Post
I will never buy another Warm product. Mediocre at best. They sold their souls. Save a little and get something you'll never want to sell.
I'm with you. Nothing but bad experience with the Warm gear I had. Every single item I've purchased from them has had one issue or another and...contrary to Gearslutz opinion didn't sound so great.
Old 1st May 2018
  #55
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Shannon Adkins's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Coates View Post
I'm with you. Nothing but bad experience with the Warm gear I had. Every single item I've purchased from them has had one issue or another and...contrary to Gearslutz opinion didn't sound so great.
Which items have you had?
Old 1st May 2018
  #56
The mic preamps, 1176 clone, 2A clone, Pultec clones, and WA 47jr
Old 2nd May 2018
  #57
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Mad John's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Coates View Post
The mic preamps, 1176 clone, 2A clone, Pultec clones, and WA 47jr
You tried the WA-412 and did not like it?

WA-2A no good or just too cheaply made?
Old 2nd May 2018
  #58
Lives for gear
 
Shannon Adkins's Avatar
 

Question for you Copperhead owners... Do you have any trouble with the shockmount? Mine doesn't seem to hold its position too well. Even the WA47 mount seems to have a stronger joint.
Old 2nd May 2018
  #59
Lives for gear
 
Shannon Adkins's Avatar
 

OK, so here's my thoughts so far on the Copperhead.
It picks up the room a lot more than the WA47 and this affected the test I did at Sweetwater. In my space, it is a more focused and hifi sounding mic. It is more prone to sibilance, but it's manageable. It really does have a good deal of shimmer which flatters the vocal.
However, this shock mount is really getting in the way of my enjoyment of using this thing. It's such a chore to get it to stay in place, and honestly, it really doesn't isolate at all anyway. And the fact that the mic can freely swivel is also an irritant, because the cable is rather heavy and stiff. I move the mic right where I want it, and it swivels away to and fro... makes it hard to get comfortable when doing takes.
Not sure if I'm keeping either of these mics.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Adkins View Post
Question for you Copperhead owners... Do you have any trouble with the shockmount? Mine doesn't seem to hold its position too well. Even the WA47 mount seems to have a stronger joint.
Never had a problem with shockmount or build quality with the copperhead. Sorry you are experiencing those problems! I think it has a well supported shockmount, maybe the best I've used.



(actual pic of my mic)
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